Warsaw Rising 1944 - National Disaster or Triumph of Spirit ?

No, it isn`t new. It originated when Poland was in the communist block together with East Germany which was an ally then. Hitlerowcy was the most popular term during communist times and it is still used today, although after cases of whitening their past by Germans, Poles are replacing it with the proper name - Germans. The monument was erected in communist times - 1984, hence hilerowcy on it.

The execution story
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egzekucja_przy_ulicy_Dworkowej

The monument
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomnik_%C5%BCo%C5%82nierzy_%E2%80%9EBaszty%E2%80%9D_w_Warszawie


Instead of abusing people, especially when you litter this forum with idiotic trash yourself practically in every post, you could offer the explanation as I did above. Why didn`t you do it, Mr Expat-who-knows-nothing-about-Poland, yet persists to play an expert on Polish things?

Agreed, I always say Germans, never Nazis.

And Nazis have been the Aliens form the dark side of the Moon?

Many German soldiers were not Nazis.

No.
It was the US or "America" who dropped two nukes, not the Democrats. Hence, we say: When the Americans dropped...not when the Democrats dropped...

Germany and the German army should be treated similarly, and their war crimes and criminals separately. Even the SS, since not everyone who was in the SS was a war criminal.

Really simple when one thinks.

....you could offer the explanation as I did above. Thanks. I sensed that there has to be a reason for it.

Factually incorrect, Ironside!

Hitler recruited from numerous neighboring countries whose racial lineage he deemed suitable for his Master Race, among others, Holland, Lithuania, Latvia, Norway, Estonia, even Finland, not to mention little Croatia.

Did they belong to the Nazi party?
Nazi by definition: a member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party.
If they didn't, Iron may actually be correct.

They became, so to speak, "honorary" Nazis then:-)
To be sure, all were forced to swear the oath of allegiance to Hitler (Eidgeloebnis), making them, yes in effect, "Nazis"!

Your post has too many hedges. From "so to speak" to "in effect". In my world where precision and dispassionate thinking is highly valued, they either were card-carrying members of the Nazi party or they were not. Like being married or pregnant. You are or you are not, with no shades of gray to make weaseling out later more convenient.

And that "forced to swear"....If you are forced to swear, you are not swearing. You are mumbling words that carry zero moral or legal weight.

There were a few Irish, British, Scottish, and Polish Nazis - mostly gorale.. But there were a lot of Ukrainians, Russians namely Don Cossacks, Indians, Iraqis, etc.

For a long time there was actually an SS/Nazi lobby group in Germany

Man I wish I was born back then = (

The previous series of photos concerned National Disaster. The last two are about Triumph of Spirit.

Read the fascinating story about Prince Poniatowski monument in Warsaw. Seldom do monuments undergo so many adventures as that one did.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_to_Prince_J%C3%B3zef_Poniatowski_in_Warsaw

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  Before the war
  
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  During the war
  
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  After the Rising
  
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  Today
  

We do too, Dirk! Maybe you'd have passed already and your toxic spirit along with you.

@Rich, those recruited, such as the Belgian Brigades of Nazi sympathizers did in fact have to swear a loyalty oath as well....upon pain of death.

All are correct in a way.

After '33 the NSDAP imposed an admission freeze for new members, to avoid all these opportunists who now came running.

At that point the party had about 849.009 members. Of course even after the freeze people seen as especially useful were "rewarded" with a membership.
But membership was in no way compulsory like in communist countries. (Quite the contrary, the lower your membership-number the higher would be your reputation, because that meant you had been an early member as it was still difficult, during the struggles, before the rise to power).

Till 1943 about 11% of the Germans were members....actually really NAZIS as in active members of the NSDAP. Meaning 89% were not.

But swearing allegiance to Hitler (not the party or the country) with Hitler being the party leader meant in real life actually the same...

Did you know that every new postal worker under the age of 35 was automatically a member of the SS? New employees had to join the so-called Postschutz, which was part of the SS organization.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postschutz

"Allgemeine SS"...as in Home Security....honorary...

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allgemeine_SS

To avoid misunderstandings! :)

Only until the end of April 1942. After that the SS-Postschutz was part of the Waffen-SS.

.....most ended up in the Wehrmacht though.

You just made the SS look a lot better.

Well, most people think "Holocaust" when they hear "SS". It's a bit more complicated than that.

Yes, that's right. Without local collaboration, even the most ardent SS-Personnel could probably not have
effected what they did in as short a period of time as they did!

The last photo this year - I must say it is one of the most important to me. Modest, but so inspiring.

It`s a small plaque on the defence wall of the Old Town.

Warsaw Rising 1944, the Battle for the Old Town, here, on bulwark barricades along Podwale, Ślepa and Piwna Streets, batallion Gustaw soldiers fought till the end, blocked the strategic route, repelled all German attacks, covered the sewer evacuation of insurgent troops to Downtown district.

Example of Triumph of Spirit to follow?

More pics of Gustaw insurgents here:
info-pc.home.pl/whatfor/baza/gustaw_galeria.htm

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  Warszawa215.jpg
  
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  Warszawa218.jpg
  
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  gustaw_15.jpg
  
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  annawieslawport.jp.jpg
  

@pawian

Great post.

The nazi government namely himmler had the ss recruit locals in order to help identify, kill and bury Jews. The mental toll was too much for SS so they had locals carry out massacres especially in the Baltic states. This was when they were still shooting most of the Jews instead of sending them to camps.


I think of awesome hugo boss uniforms.


There's still SS veterans alive. And they're as unapologetic and defiant as ever.

Sadly.
As the Germans themselves often say, "Unkraut vergeht nicht!" = You can't get rid of weeds!

Are they?

I met my last one about 10 years back..on a WWII forum...he claimed to have been an SS security detail at the Wolfsschanze...now living out his days in Florida though. I wonder if he's still kicking it..

Well, the few that are alive are going to be in their 80s 90s+. That's also why the American jews are kvetching so hard about Poland to get their property gibs since actual survivors are dwindling by the day.


According to a few interviews with veterans, yes.

I knew someone who was part of that. He was a teen when it happened. Sadly he died (in his 70s) about 15 years ago. A very distinguished man. He was a Righteous Among the Nations, a newspaper editor back in the 70s, the founder of a major charity and part of KOR.

75 years ago insurgent Warsaw capitulated. See the film from the German newsreel.

After the capitulation and forced evacuation of the remaining population, Germans started to burn and blow up buildings which survived, one by one. That was pure malice and a personal revenge of Hitler on restive Poles.

youtu.be/6JSeDuV4has

About 80% of the city and Germans have still not returned many Polish historical artefacts that they stole.

The sound of a barking dog is more pleasant.