Russian Greatness - and its Polish Contributors

Unusual, but legit.


Exactly.


Not that difficult but it does indeed sound a bit Czech; they have those strč, prst, skrž, krk etc. clusters.

Enough for today.

Tomorrow, I decided, I will give another go to Rokossovski.

One of the most exceptional Soviet commanders in all of WW2 (perhaps, the most talented).

Born in Warsaw in 1896, he started indicating Velikiye Luki as his birthplace, after being awarded two consecutive Hero of the Soviet Union orders.

Known to us as Konstantin Konstantinovich, he was born Konstantin Ksavyerovich. Some historians assert that his real birth name was Kasimir.

His father was Ksaveriy Yuzefovich Rokossovski (Glyaubich and Orsha arms). Inspector of the Warsaw railroads.

In 1949, the Polish President Bolesław Bierut, requested the Soviet government to send the Pole Konstantinos Rokossovski to Warsaw to serve as Minister of Defense.

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Hahahaha

Interesting... I honestly find that hard to believe... Are there any records about such a family? 🤔


Well, not impossible, but completely unnatural/unheard of in the Polish language...


It's good to know that not only our language is messed up ;D 😂 ❤️ 🇵🇱🤝🇨🇿


:)

I don't even comment anymore...

Russian is morphologically less complex than Polish,
however Russian pronunciation continues to dog me,
especially those palatalized consonants!

I have no idea. Surnames are sometimes strange.


Is it completely unnatural? We do have "rży"/"rżeć" and "drży"/"drżeć" after all. But it's very unusual, true.

But this...


... is also possible.

We have to write to professor Miodek (or Bralczyk). :)

one Russian (with no previous ties to Poland) that was thoroughly revered in Poland was Sokrat Starynkiewicz who oversaw turning of Warsaw into a modern European city in the late 19th century -

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokrat_Starynkiewicz

Yeah "hahahaha".

Find in 1949 in Poland a Pole that had experience of commanding a front consisting of multiple millions of people.

Find a Pole that was treated as an equal by Montgomery and McArthur.

Find a Pole that had the same level of connections in Moscow.

Find in 1949 a r*SSian who was 'invited'...

I learned about it not long ago - but Rokossovski was subjected to torture during the Stalinist purge of the Soviet army in the late 30's (the one that got Tukhachevsky killed) - he did not budge during the interrogations in the aftermath which he could not move one of his eyebrows until he died)

....and still he kept on giving!

Stalin just didn't deserve that kind of loyalty!

r*SSians worship violence.

A sick culture. The Polish communist, Wera Kostrzewa, had in her (and his) old age the dacha next to Stalin's. One day, he walked over to the fence that separated their gardens and said "your roses are looking better than mine". Within 24 hours she was on the way to the Gulag where she froze to death.

Not that they had a choice. That is why Russians are jealous of others as they live in such a system. Admittedly is not as bad as it is today but still premise remains the same. Your ruler is your god unless he weakens then whoever wins is a new god.

He was subjected to extreme hounding and humiliation.

His wife and children were sent into internal exile.

Himself, he was pressured to sign all nature of false confessions which were popular at the time. The price for not signing these confessions, was inhuman beatings and other forms of torture.

He never ratted anyone out. He never confessed. Then, when the time came, and the country came calling - he answered the call.

This is a patriot of Russia.

Russia brutalized him and spat in his face, trampled over everything he held dear, and yet he went out there and laid his soul down for the defense.

This makes Rokossovski more Russian than most Russians.

You forget that there had been resistance, even armed....the anti-communist "Whites", or even later the Vlasov-army.

And on the other hand there are other examples of whole peoples cowered in fear by so much brutality (Khmer).

That doesn't mean it's the culture!

That's the thing, it doesn't come up in Google...


It wouldn't surprise me if the surname sounded foreign in general, but it looks like a typical Polish surname (with an error)...


Yes, but "d", "r" and "ż" belong to the same group of Polish consonants as far as the place of articulation is concerned (przedniojęzykowe), while "k" belongs to "tylnojęzykowe" group. That's why "krż" feels less natural/more difficult to pronounce.


Find me an objective source that states that Bierut requested the Soviet government to send Rokossovski to Warsaw to serve as Minister of Defense (like, genuinely requested).

@Paulina

Did anyone attack Poland since then?

Did Poland kick Hungarian and Czech ass together with us?

Does Poland have a powerful military in the present?

What did Rokossovski do to you that was bad? How did he betray you?

never heard the story - sick indeed

Okay....that was a special situation....Russia was under attack!

But shouldn't a patriot try to make his country somewhat better?

He knew how Stalin raped and terrorized the country, the people, the mass murder...he suffered himself!

Wouldn't it had been more patriotic to end Stalin? To end that destruction? At least to try?

Read the "Polska Ludowa" chapter:

pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstanty_Rokossowski

Many got the hell away. Many also stood up to the, and were murdered, much like in r*SSia.


It is there; there were like that before the revolution and are like it now.


What would the dot on the z actually do, since the rz sound is there already? Would the r be pronounced separately?

And lose the war and present our undefended anus to Das Deutsches Reich?

Vlasov tried that.

He is now forever the Judas of the Russian people. His name is mixed with sh*t, anytime it is mentioned.

Life was no picnic back then. There was no justice to be found. Men like him, that acted responsibly regardless of this chaos - we owe them a special debt.

Rokossovski is one of the greatest Poles in history for Russians.

yes - Torq gave examples (drżeć (to tremble among other meanings) or rżeć (to neigh))


from what I read Rokossowski personally saved a couple of Polish resistence members (after 1945) sentenced to death by the Polish communists

Yes.


That death sentence was possible in the first place because Rokossovski gave the order for the purge in the Polish military. He didn't save the others from his own order.

Makes sense. Piłsudski had his vehement opponents too but in the Polish-Soviet war they were there in the trenches together with Piłsudski's most dedicated followers.

As for Rokossovski, he is perceived mostly negatively in Poland; yes, he defended characteristic Polish military traditions (two-finger salute, rogatywkas, cross-shaped medals etc.) and considered himself a Pole, but he was very ideologically minded and initiated stalinist purges in Wojsko Polskie, sending many Polish patriots (a lot of them pre-war officers) to their deaths.

He'll be posting about Wanda Wasilewska next...

Your negative appraisals are valued at close to zero by me.


Kania, dearest...

Polish military traditions are important, and it is always - in general - important to be respectful towards local customs and traditions.

But I feel you are focusing on the crumbs along the kitchen table, while we have this grand turkey of a feast situated in the middle.

The man, did more than any Western commander to defeat Nazi Germany.

He is a hero of quite literally legendary status in Russia.

He commanded MILLIONS of people.

As a professional military man, that was forced to go to Warsaw to serve in the civilian role of "Minister of Defense" - I'm sure most of the time he was bored out of his mind and was not very efficient.

He was a Soviet traitor. He supervised political oppression against officers in the post war army. Sent back to the USSR by the new leadership in 1956.


I thought you intended to learn sth about Poland and Poles/Polesses. Like 3 years ago you were surprised that we don`t cherish Dzierżyński`s memory.

I'm sorry to hear that, Bobi. I'm just telling you about the general perception of Rokossowski in Poland.


After Stalin's death, it was only a question of time when his faithful praetorian is sent back home. As I said, the purges in the Polish Army that he initiated and supervised is what shaped his image in Poland.


I don't deny that. Hero of Soviet Union no doubt. But it so happens that heroes of one country are not necessarily perceived as such in another. Life.

How do you know that I am NOT learning right now, at this very moment?


Apologies Monsieur - this was addressed at my nemesis.