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What do Poles think about Turks?


rock - | 460
13 Jun 2008 #361
EU is not everything for Turkey. But it will benefit to Turkey and Europe both.

From your words, it is very clear that Turks in Turkey and Turks in Europe are not the same. Turks begin to migrate to Europe in 1965. All the migrants were peasants and uneducated. Never see a city other than military obligation for men. Their economic activity was agriculture and raising livestock. In Turkey's GNP agriculture was one the first items in that years.

Almost 45 years past. Turkey and Turkish people changed a lot. High percentage of people are living in big cities, uneducated people are very few. GNP services and industry are ahead, agriculture lower. Dynamic, young population interested about world. High potantial.

How can Turkish people in Europe can not change in 45 years. I don't think it is the fault of Turkish people living in Europe. It is obviously the fault of European Governments for years. They did not think them their people. They seperate them from own people. Then reaction occured in the Turks.

Bradwurst boy says young Turks try to kill an old German who warned them not to smke in the bus. In Turkey if a young man sits in a bus and an old man stands, young man stands up and gives his place to old man. This is a Turkish tradition.

How can a young Turkish man do such a thing in Germany ?

Germans are really guilty. Because they couldn't manage to adopt Turkish people to their community.
Marek 4 | 867
13 Jun 2008 #362
Bratwurst Boy,

think you then that the Turkeys in Europe come, as member nation (Mitgliedsstaat), I am meaning? Is this right?

Sorry for my 'false' English. -:) Please correct me my mistakes. (he-he!)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
13 Jun 2008 #363
Germans are really guilty. Because they couldn't manage to adopt Turkish people to their community.

Sure...
If the invited guest in a house refuses to go again, messes up the house, lazies around on the couch, uses the food in the fridge without paying, mocks the house wife, gets violent and disrespectful at the house owner whenever he says something it's the house owners fault, yes?

I tell you what, the lone fault of the house owner is that he still avoids more drastic measures like calling police and Bundeswehr to kick you out!

He still tries to talk to this sh*itty guest to get some sense into him...

Oh and you still didn't say how Europe would profit from a turkish member.....

Sorry for my 'false' English. -:) Please correct me my mistakes. (he-he!)

I don't care for your statements and even less for your grammar...oh and you can keep my errors! he-he
rock - | 460
13 Jun 2008 #364
If the invited guest in a house refuses to go again, messes up the house, lazies around on the couch, uses the food in the fridge without paying, mocks the house wife, gets violent and disrespectful at the house owner whenever he says something it's the house owners fault, yes?

In Turkey, Turks don't behave like this. How Turks chanced so badly has to be investigated. Congratulations Germany. İf you not exagerating, we can't admit this people to Turkey. Because we can't live with them. You say they are Turkish but they don't behave according to Turkish habits.
isisores - | 46
13 Jun 2008 #365
Sure...
If the invited guest in a house refuses to go again, messes up the house, lazies around on the couch, uses the food in the fridge without paying, mocks the house wife, gets violent and disrespectful at the house owner whenever he says something it's the house owners fault, yes?

such a silly example. turks were not guests in germany they came there to set up a new life. if you were talking about tourists that could be a valid example maybe, but no, still silly anyway.

and how can you say them go? like, "for years we made you make all the dirty and hard jobs to make our country develop faster, we treated you as second class people and now we don't need you anymore, leave our country". sure sure they would leave.

the fact is germany took the most uneducated, poor and villager turks to make them work like slaves. and now you say you are suffering from them. what did you expect? it's all your fault. now instead of insulting turks and wishing them to leave, germans must try to integrate them to society. if it's hard, it's your problem. but making them to work in heavy jobs was easy wasn't it?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
13 Jun 2008 #366
Turks in Turkey don't concern me...a people like everybody else and I respect you!

It's your immigrants who are uprooted and now only present the worst of both worlds.
Another reason why to much immigration is not good....

turks were not guests in germany they came there to set up a new life. if you were talking about tourists that could be a valid example maybe, but no, still silly anyway.

They were invited as "guest workers", Gastarbeiter!
Nobody wanted or expected them to stay...the beginning of the Drama...

the fact is germany took the most uneducated, poor and villager turks to make them work like slaves.

We didn't took them...they came voluntarily, happy for the chance to escape their anatolian poverty. They earned much more money for less hard work than on their fields in Anatolia...they didn't complain!

it's all your fault.

Nope...it's the immigrant who has to accomodate to the host country, not the other way around!
That's a ground rule in all civilized societies!

That Turks won't accept that and to the contrary blame the host country for the misgivings of the immigrants is somehow typical and also a bad sign for the willingness to integrate in the EU.

What if there are problems? Are you then also give the EU all the blame???

PS: And if Germany is so unbearable the Turks would flee the country, would they not? But they don't, they like it here more than in Turkey....inspite of all the problems! Should tell you something...
VaFunkoolo 6 | 654
13 Jun 2008 #367
now instead of insulting turks and wishing them to leave, germans must try to integrate them to society. if it's hard, it's your problem. but making them to work in heavy jobs was easy wasn't it?

Wow. You make it sound like these people didn't leave their own country to travel to another country to improve their lives more than they were able to do at home wasn't actually their choice. It's almost as if you are suggesting that Germans went to Turkey to kidnap the locals and make them work for them back in germany.

Isn't it sad that so many Turks see the option of staying in Germany as apparent second class citizens as a better option than returning to their own country.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
13 Jun 2008 #368
This tread is soon to be on its 14 page or whatever you computer gurus call it, i never knew Polish people thought for so long about Turks. Well just goes to show
rock - | 460
13 Jun 2008 #369
As a result, Turks in Germany are not like Turks in Turkey and are not like Germans in Germany.

SO THEY CAN BE A BRİDGE BETWEEN GERMANY AND TURKEY.

(This means they have to stay where they are now until look like someone)
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,426
13 Jun 2008 #370
SO THEY CAN BE A BRİDGE BETWEEN GERMANY AND TURKEY.

Many neither speak proper German nor proper Turkish...they brag about when they are
visiting Turkey and are unpopular there...turkish boys are disrespectful to their teachers, disrespect non-muslims generally...they have therefore seldom work, jobs, a future....many become frustrated, violent...aggressive!

The german society dismisses them.

They are uprooted from their turkish heritage and not rooted in the german society and culture...they can't be a bridge!
isisores - | 46
13 Jun 2008 #371
Isn't it sad that so many Turks see the option of staying in Germany as apparent second class citizens as a better option than returning to their own country.

they went cause they were poor in turkey too. hoped to get a better life in europe. and germany invited them, didn't they? they wanted turks to work for them and go but just choosed wrong people for this, and didn't work. it was obvious that poor ignorant villagers was not able to get used to german lifestyle and won't wish to go back. if they were happy in turkey they wouldn't go to germany. and after working hard for years they wanted to live their life in germany in a more comfortable way, you can't blame them. germany had to calculate its consequences before they invite these people. yes it's sad for me that turkey has lower life quality than germany but it's the truth.

This tread is soon to be on its 14 page or whatever you computer gurus call it, i never knew Polish people thought for so long about Turks. Well just goes to show

actually germans and greeks wrote more than poles.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
13 Jun 2008 #372
Please correct me my English Marek? Please correct my English for me, maybe.
southern 75 | 7,096
13 Jun 2008 #373
When Byzantium empire did the same it is not?

Byzantine Empire spread civilization.Take an example.Cyrillus and Methodius.
rock - | 460
14 Jun 2008 #374
I will conquer your country, kill you, take your everything but I will spread civilization ok? İt is really very funny.
Like USA say she brings democracy, civilization to Iraq. Iraq nation is very happy that USA brought its civilization and know how to Iraq. Iraq can make her own space program in 20 years :))))
Maxxx Payne 1 | 196
14 Jun 2008 #375
What has Iraq war to do with saints Cyrillius and Methodius ?
Do you even know who they are ??
rock - | 460
14 Jun 2008 #376
You don't understand what I say. Saints Cryllius and Methodius are important personalities. But can you say because of them Byzantium Empire did nothing bad to the nations of the countries which she conquered ?

This is the point.
Maxxx Payne 1 | 196
14 Jun 2008 #377
soooo, what has US-Iraq war got to do with Byzantine empire
rock - | 460
14 Jun 2008 #378
You have to read my mail # 372. You will understand the issue.
Maxxx Payne 1 | 196
14 Jun 2008 #379
ok, now I have read it. Have to say that comparing Byzantine empire and US empire doesnt work. USA hasnt been expanding its territories since the Spanish war. In fact they want to get out of Iraq ASAP. Sure USA is fighting for its interests, every country,big or small, looks after its interests, but this has nothing to do expansionism.
Marek 4 | 867
14 Jun 2008 #380
Hyvaa paivaa, Max!

Rather like Sweden's Vasa Empire overtaking Finland during it's colonial days.-:)
That was more than 'expansionism', that was imperialism, for which reasons you all know Swedish better than English.
Maxxx Payne 1 | 196
14 Jun 2008 #381
I am very a glad that someone non-Finn knows about these issues :)
southern 75 | 7,096
14 Jun 2008 #382
But can you say because of them Byzantium Empire did nothing bad to the nations of the countries which she conquered ?

Byzantine Empire built Constantinopol,Nis,Belgrade,Varna,Plovdiv and thousands of cities all over Balkans and Asia Minor.Thessaloniki grew and became the second richest city in Europe after Constantinopol.

All the ancient documents you read now,the works of Plato,Aristotle,Thukydides were saved by byzantine monks who wrote and rewrote them again.
Byzantine mathematicians taught mathematics to Arabs and byzantine philosophers brought the works of classical Greeks to the West in order for the Renassaince to start.

Do you know El Greco?He started painting in byzantine style.
Do you know Agia Sofia in Istanbul?Who built it?
Wahldo
15 Jun 2008 #383
In fact they want to get out of Iraq ASAP.

Ahh Maxxx my man.. you have no idea how we want out of this stupid stuff.
rock - | 460
15 Jun 2008 #384
Southern,
How many Goths Byzantine Empire killed in Arcadius and 1. Leon times ?
Thousands of Goths were living in Anatolia in that times and because of a Byzantine way of genocide they all killed.

In which way modern Byzantine nation killed their emperor Andronikos Komnenos in Hipodrome? Very barbarous''.
southern 75 | 7,096
15 Jun 2008 #385
In which way modern Byzantine nation killed their emperor Andronikos Komnenos in Hipodrome? Very barbarous''.

Yes and do you know why?Because 5 years before he had thrown the Venezians and Genovese out of Constantinopol.They never forgot it and when they found the chance to revenge,they did.

Everything was also caused by the invasion of normand army which had already conquered Salonica and headed for Constantinopol.Andronicus had prepared army which waited the Normands in Thrace and actually destroyed them in a battle some days after Andronicus death.

So the point is what did the Normands have to do in Byzantium?Did they have any rights to invade?Or were they inspireds,supported and paid by the Venezians and Genovese who 20 years after managed to get the whole crusade turn against Byzantium?

As for the fate of Normands,you can study all the byzantine-normand wars from the times of Alexius Comnenus and what these heros did to the population of Salonica and Balkans.

Of course they did not like the sicelian evening when their presence in Italy ended in an abrupt way in 1267.

Of course Byzantines used barbarian methods.They cut noses and blinded their enemies.One Emperor even had a cut nose,he was called Konstantine the cut nose.

Emperor Roman was blinded after his defeat by Turks in Mazikert in 1071.

But we should not forget that among the nations in byzantine empire were Armenians,Georgians and Bulgarians except from Greeks and these nations are not famous for their delicacy.
rock - | 460
15 Jun 2008 #386
What about Goths Genocide ?
southern 75 | 7,096
15 Jun 2008 #387
Van you elaborate?As far as I remember these Goths who had lived there since roman times(Galatia minor) were assimilated.The places where they lived were still called Galatia during byzantine Empire rule.

I have to search about it because there is no obvious reason why they should have been killed.
Byzantium never commited genocide,it only transported folks to other places where they could not be threatening(like Stalin's policies in USSR).
It also brought some folks to the region like Albanians(unfortunately),Varages(of skandinavian origin),some Slavs(to increase population density in Balkans) etc.
rock - | 460
15 Jun 2008 #388
Byzantium never commited genocide,it only transported folks to other places where they could not be threatening(like Stalin's policies in USSR).

It is the same for Armenians in 1915 in Ottoman Empire.
But our enemies are trying to call it genocide which is not.
osiol 55 | 3,922
15 Jun 2008 #389
Sweden's Vasa Empire

But what of the lasting effects of the power balance between Russia and Sweden. The Finnish (Karelian) population just over the border seems a bit thin on the ground. Empires can be bad things, but the lasting effects may be very different. I don't know too much about Sweden in the old days, but various empires have left their marks, some good and some bad. I can listen to reggae music and eat curry for example.
Marek 4 | 867
15 Jun 2008 #390
Osiol:) I'd be much more concerned with both Sweden's as well as little Finland's treatment of its Saami (commonly known as 'Lapp') minority to the North than about the Karelian population in Western Russia! The Finns too have a most problematic history of their own, quite apart from how they fared under Swedish domination for several centuries. Their position during WWII vis-a-vis Germany, despite the heroic stance of Mannerheim against the Soviet invasion, remains a serious issue in their past. Like Norway, Finland didn't exactly stand up politically against Hitler.

Maxx, I have many Finnish acquaintances and all of them speak excellent Swedish. My Finnish is rudimentary at best, but I have basic survival skills. English might be a poor choice, save perhaps at a class hotel in the center of Halsingfors, oops, Helsinki.-:) LOL


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