Are Poles happy with the current Polish borders?

Merged:

Questioning Poland's Western Borders

Recently Alice Weidel has subtly questioned Poland's legitimacy regarding her Western borders. 08.06.2023

By stating voting or polling in "Central Germany" While it either be concluded as a wordplay for old DDR being central to Germany, or should be more central in Germany for the future. Most likely it voiced the hidden opinion of German right-wingers that Poland's western lands legitimately (in my personal opinion illegitimately to Germany, but legitimately to Poland) belong to the modern German state.

The threat of German right wingers rise to power in Germany will guarantee conflict being pushed eastward as shown by this statement.

I can only conclude the need to deescalate the conflict in the east as soon as possible to prepare for the rising tide happening in Germany.

Brilliant. So, we give Ziemie Odzyskane back to Germany. What happens next? Who will live there?

Former DDR lands are depopulating, and many smaller towns are already deserted, so who will come to "former" Poland? Ethnic Germans have negative birth rates and about 25% of their population have migrant roots, so whom will they send to live here? Syrians or Turks? Besides, what's the point? Poland and Germany are both in the EU, so if any German wants to come to live and work in Poland (and vice versa) they are free to do so any time.

It would be the same thing if Poland ever "regained" her former lands in Belarus and Ukraine. Who would move there, with negative birth rates and Poles flocking to large cities? Total stupidity. Far right politicians should play Europa Universalis or Hearts of Iron and conquer all the lands to their hearts content but let's keep the idiots away from real politics. *rolls eyes*

Germany does not have any claim on Polish territory any more than Poland has a claim on former territories in the east.


That is likely to happen anyway with time and is obviously not a bad thing, however it won't be under the aegis of Germany or be any sort of back door irredentism.


Total stupidity and far right politicians/voters go together like martini and an olive. Fortunately the far right at small and as economic stability and prosperity increase there is little appeal for extreme politics.

@GefreiterKania
@jon357

It is irrational, which is why they will try to bring it about with use of force, example: Russian invasion of Ukraine.

German far right base their understanding of Germany on the notion of Germania described by the Romans, who described the entire area of Central Europe as Germania, just like basing of an Americans understand of Europe as Spain on the whole continent does not legitimise Spain's conquest of Europe.

German far right will push for it regardless, due to them having it as a cassus belli to exist, fight and act.

They don't have the force to do that. The German armed forces are useless whereas the Polish armed forces are not. NATO would doubtless have a lot to say about one member state trying to seize territory from another. The EU may well protest, however they are of course useless and as an organisation basically a Franco/German economic pact that holds out crumbs to nearby states so the6 can be economically exploited.


The far right, nationalists, ultra-conservatives, or whatever you want to call them do not belong in the same sentence as the word "understanding".

@jon357
You are thinking terms of today

Germany in 1920 had little possibility to conquer Paris or most of Europe in that time.

In 1940 it was a different matter, I am just considering the possibilities and consequences of not preparing for another such eventuality.

German Armed forces in the hands of SPD, should not be an issue, AFD on the other hand is a different story.

This lady is an AfD politician and this is a party without a future in Germany for now.

@Alien
People thought the same about another party in the 1920's. I personally cannot rule it out, especially as it has been growing. Civil war or military expansion lies in the cards with a growing AFD having pretensions towards Poland's western borders.

So a nutcase.


With good reason.


Before NATO membership and quite frankly the German army is so utterly useless that it would take them many years to build it up to a level where it could invade Luxembourg, never mind Poland whose army is large, well-trained and effective. And their build up would neither go unnoticed or as last time, unstopped.

Plus of course there would be worldwide condemnation of Germany for such an act as well as military intervention from other NATO states were Poland to trigger Article 5. it would be yet another war crime to add to their already very long rap sheet and on a "three strikes and you're out" basis, it would mean the end of Germany as we know it.

Although after reading the message I have to say that this lady did not say anything wrong. She only said that the AfD has a lot of support in "Mitteldeutschland". Only that "Mitteldeutschland" or Central Germany is a common term for this geographical region that has nothing to do with any territorial claims.

That sounds a bit like Middle England, a term that politicians use. It has nothing to do with physical geography or any particular place, more a demographic, with average income, average IQ and educational levels, who tend to be quite patriotic though not particularly nationalistic and have a tendency to be floating voters who may find one or more policy of the hard right to be appealing but do not vote for extremes.

@Alien
If eastern Germany is "middleGermany" does that not make Poland "EasternGermany" in their line of thinking?

I don't think so because it's actually a common term that everyone uses. But you can ask BB and T what they think about it.

This entire discussion re: "Oder-Neisse- Eastern Germany vs. pre-WWII Polish borders" has been kicked around since ballpark 1953. The borders remain as they stand, end of discussion!