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Are Poles happy with the current Polish borders?


Ironside 50 | 11,260
15 Nov 2010 #91
Whats reality ?
Your off-butted last post ? No thank you!
Marek11111 9 | 816
15 Nov 2010 #92
we need friendly stable Ukraine more than we need Lwów

yes we do we need partner in economical issues and maybe later military ones we do not need hatred between our nations
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
15 Nov 2010 #93
Whats reality ?
Your off-butted last post ? No thank you!

Reality is that Poland needs a stable Ukraine as a buffer and that most Poles including me do not share your views.
Ironside 50 | 11,260
16 Nov 2010 #94
Reality is that Poland needs a stable Ukraine

what if there wont be a stable Ukraine ? You conception will crumple ! readiness and variants of plans for every eventuality !

most Poles including me do not share your views.

I don't care what most Poles thinks !It has nothing to do with the issue discussed! Do you think that in the present circumstances my election platform would be - Lwów should belong to Poland !?

Definitely not! phew!
Havok 10 | 912
16 Nov 2010 #95
according to some obsolete website Poland has a slight chance to mow through some of the eastern territories.

I guess it's matter of alliances and deals made behind the scenes. I say, go for it! Post all updates on PF.

globalfirepower.com

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daya - | 2
16 Nov 2010 #96
its decent
Havok 10 | 912
16 Nov 2010 #97
I don't disagree.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
16 Nov 2010 #98
what if there wont be a stable Ukraine ?

Then we need to make sure we dont get drawn into the mess that the region becomes afterwards.

ou conception will crumple ! readiness and variants of plans for every eventuality !

No it wont, if Ukraine indeed collapses the best thing to do is to close the border and pretend nothing happened, the last thing we want is to enter a region thats a potential hot spot.

I don't care what most Poles thinks !

Thats because as far as Lwów is concerned you're a raving lunatic who's completely detached from reality.

according to some obsolete website Poland has a slight chance to mow through some of the eastern territories.

I guess it's matter of alliances and deals made behind the scenes. I say, go for it! Post all updates on PF.

Globalfirepower is worth zip, their statistics are based on number of people available.

Mexico for example would be overrun by Poland in a week not having any real heavy ground forces, mexican airforce has literally 10 old fighter planes.

Ukrainian army is practically falling apart as well.
Ironside 50 | 11,260
16 Nov 2010 #99
raving lunatic who's completely detached from reality.

one man dream is another man reality :)

No it wont, if Ukraine indeed collapses the best thing to do is to close the border and pretend nothing happened, the last thing we want is to enter a region thats a potential hot spot.

Its against unwritten rules of politics, you cannot detach yourself from your neighbor,you need to be in touch, if need be, intervene. Otherwise somebody else will put in, his/her mittens and next you know new reality is kicking you ass......its elementary dear Sokrates, elementary :)

Poland stopped to be a power to reckon with at the moment when surrendered territories outside her borders to the whims of her neighbors, next they knew those neighbors started meddling into internal affairs of Poland - you know the finale, don't you ?

Well, don't mind me, I'm only a raving lunatic, completely detached from reality!
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
16 Nov 2010 #100
one man dream is another man reality :)

Folk sayings wont change the hard facts, vast majority of Poles is indifferent or mildly friendly towards Ukraine, no one would agree to enact a policy of destabilising Ukraine or attempting to take land from it and no kind of media spin outside of ukis mass murdering Poles again could change that.

While personally i consider ukrainians a nation of barbaric peasant descendants without an ounce of culture or civilisation they're unlikely to genocide polish minority any time soon.

Poland stopped to be a power to reckon with at the moment when surrendered territories outside her borders to the whims of her neighbors,

Poland stopped to be a power to reckon with in late 17th century when its ravaged society and economy finally gave in under the stiffness of her upper class, it never regained a status of power afterwards and while the interbellum was a good shot it was too short to take advantage of so you're wrong at every turn here.

Well, don't mind me, I'm only a raving lunatic, completely detached from reality!

Not only that but you're interpreting history in a very very loose manner.
Ironside 50 | 11,260
17 Nov 2010 #101
Folk sayings wont change the hard facts,

You have a very simplified view of politics, policy and all circumstances about it.
At the present point in time, your assessment is correct, but I'm not talking about now, my vision has perquisite requirement - real polish elite in charge.

Process of getting back our land, I see as a gradual process, not necessary conquest or armed clash.
You see, I don't believe that Ukraine will be a good and worthy neighbor and an ally, for number of reasons, I don't think that without polish help Ukraine become member of EU or even NATO, I think Russia will have a heavy influence on the future of the country, unknown factor in the game as yet is China.

Whatever happens, Poland should be present at the seen, flexible and ready to act accordingly in the right set of circumstances!
Example of Lithuania teach us a lesson - one sided goodness , is not good enough for having good relation with our eastern neighbors, Those fascists aren't respecting their own obligation regarding polish minority and should be given a lesson!

(In the part of a present Ukrainian state, which I have in mind, we have chauvinistic 3-4 millions population in reality detached culturally and mentally from the rest of Ukrainians.)

While personally i consider ukrainians a nation of barbaric peasant descendants without an ounce of culture or civilisation they're unlikely to genocide polish minority any time soon.

Ukrainians are not an monolithic society, most of them are influenced by the Russian culture, which is attractive for them, in the future there is possibility of union of the two!

So, to keep Russian on the safe distance we need our territory back, otherwise they will take us for suckers,ready to be devoured and rightly so!

Poland stopped to be a power to reckon with in late 17th century

That not a thread for such discussion, the reason for Poland demise were complex, but foremost reason if I would be forced to name one - would be a very bad choice of the king, meaning Vasa !

Not only that but you're interpreting history in a very very loose manner.

My opinions are based on solid knowledge. I'm talking not only about facts but also about understanding what historical process is!My conclusion are my own, and they are debatable maybe, but sound and solid, and as far as I'm concerned correct in their diagnosis.
Czarnkow1940 5 | 95
8 Dec 2010 #102
What is your opinion?

We start a revolution and reclaim kresy
southern 75 | 7,096
8 Dec 2010 #103
I am not happy.I would like Poland to share a border with Greece and be all the time open so we can share our resources.
Stu 12 | 522
8 Dec 2010 #104
And what resources does Greece have that Poland might want?
Stu 12 | 522
8 Dec 2010 #106
I rest my case ... :-S
stallion 3 | 15
8 Dec 2010 #107
I think the Polish borders are fine. We need to develop (and protect) what we have.

On the other hand, Kaliningrad needs to break away from Russia and eventually join the EU. The small population of Kaliningrad would make it easy to join. I feel the Kaliningradian people would be much better off this way and Poland would not have a unpredictable neighbor immediately to its north.
krakus - | 12
8 Dec 2010 #108
Stallion

Kaliningradian people? They're plain russians and i sincerly doubt that anyone will allow them to split form Moscow.
convex 20 | 3,978
8 Dec 2010 #109
Better question, why would they want to?
jonni 16 | 2,485
8 Dec 2010 #110
Exactly. A few years ago, when Russia was an economic mess, there were calls for some sort of free economic zone (the Hong Kong of Russia maybe?) but now Russia is becoming more affluent, the calls have stopped.

In any case - most inhabitants are no more than second generation (the original residents either fled or were kicked out) and due to its position on the Baltic there's a preponderance of military and naval families - Russian through and through.
czerwonymbarone 1 | 4
5 Sep 2013 #111
On the other hand, Germany and Poland lost the war, the Soviets won it.

True, and I am a democratic socialist.
Tim Bucknall 7 | 98
6 Sep 2013 #112
Russians or not, a lot of the inhabitants of Kaliningrad want independence or real autonomy
kaliningrad-eu.blogspot.co.uk
witness the popularity of the "Konigsberg" numberplate

as well as the war damage, The Lithuanian SSR rejected the offer of the enclave because it would have made Lithuanians a minority in the Lithuanian SSR.

look at the Tensions in Latvia over Russian minority rights and imagine it tripled!
Crow 149 | 9,403
6 Sep 2013 #113
well, speaking in general, Serbians aren`t happy with current Polish borders. Poland should be bigger. Current situation humiliates us. Even existence of the German state is a scandal of cosmic proportions.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
6 Sep 2013 #114
Serbians aren`t happy with current Polish borders.

I doubt many Serbians even care, given that Poland is a bastion of Catholicism and we all know how hysterical the Serbs can be about Catholics.

Even existence of the German state is a scandal of cosmic proportions.

Some might say the same about that European black sheep, Serbia.

(and I say this as someone who somewhat likes Serbia)
jon357 67 | 16,831
6 Sep 2013 #115
well, speaking in general, Serbians aren`t happy with current Polish borders

I just asked two Serbs. They said they'd never thought about Polish borders and didn't much care about Serbian ones.
Crow 149 | 9,403
6 Sep 2013 #116
I doubt many Serbians even care, given that Poland is a bastion of Catholicism and we all know how hysterical the Serbs can be about Catholics.

wrong.

Serbians have beautiful historical experience with Polish Catholics. I really do think that only word that can describe those relations can be only- beautiful.

On the other side, Croatian Catholics at first pledged to destroy Catholic Serbs committing cultural violence on them and, then, developed genocidal ideology against Orthodox Serbs and finally committed genocide on them. Now, Croatia represent German and not Vatican`s satellite so one can`t say who is to be blamed- Vatican or Germans.

I just asked two Serbs. They said they'd never thought about Polish borders and didn't much care about Serbian ones.

i would even go that far to tell you that i currently think solely about borders around my weekend house. Just, romantic me, when contemplate, i have such a nice visions of one new nicer Europe without Anglo-Germanic domination and, to tell you, i have full understanding for the deeds of Gavrilo Princip
jon357 67 | 16,831
6 Sep 2013 #117
i would even go that far to tell you that i currently think solely about borders

You need a new hobby, Crow.
Crow 149 | 9,403
6 Sep 2013 #118
This thread wasn`t about hobby but about Polish borders. What is this- i said my opinion on borders and you speak of my hobby? am i that interesting to you?
legend 3 | 664
6 Sep 2013 #119
i would even go that far to tell you that i currently think solely about borders around my weekend house. Just, romantic me, when contemplate, i have such a nice visions of one new nicer Europe without Anglo-Germanic domination and, to tell you, i have full understanding for the deeds of Gavrilo Princip

Crow, as I have said a while ago, I think Miedzymorze idea is best.
No need to change borders, just have military and trade alliance which is neutral to West and Russia/China.

Alone countries in Eastern Europe cant compete with G7 and E7 nations but as an alliance they would have more say.
And it would be better option than Soviet, or EU or NATO.
Crow 149 | 9,403
6 Sep 2013 #120
well said man. Absolutely. We need peaceful transition to that what can be described as Miedzymorze (Medjumurje- in Serbian) or let`s say some new Commonwealth. In any case, Pilsudski gave great contribution to the idea.


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