Poles should apologise to Ukrainians first

It doesn't have to be Ukrainians.... russians hate everyone who isn't them (they hate themselves to but that's a different issue).

Basically russia is a failure as a concept... the biggest country in the world with nothing else going for it in the last 50 years besides selling hydrocarbons.... and now they've messed that up...

No one wants their language or culture (they haven't produced any world level culture in decades and decades) so all they're left with is size and poverty....

They don't understand why they're so poor so they create a story that the world (US) is sabotaging them...

Useless dead culture for a useless dying country.

Oh boy, so tiring...

Russians hate everybody so much, that we helped half the world decolonize - many times at the price of our own blood. We hate everybody so much, we let an empire we built on our blood go for free - East Germany, and all of you lot included. Hate everybody so much, we gave away all the innovations of our medical, engineering, and space communities amassed over decades for pennies - to the world's poorest peoples.

You really are boring, and your post is not on topic.

have you read my post addressed to you? What your take?

You made it sound like you had some kind of privileged information, when in fact it was pretty banal facts. However, I do think your take is broadly accurate. You are not making things up, I'll put it that way.

Let's be more precise, hundred - hundred and fifty thousand were brutally murdered, including women, children and babies, and three hundred - three hundred and fifty thousand fled before they were brutally murdered. Standard definition of a genocide, very similar to the Armenian Genocide. It really should be reffered to as the Polish Genocide instead of the Volyhn Tragedy which is what it currently is on Wikipediass.


And they were wrong. That's what modern day Ukraine needs to agnowledge.

Tell it to your compatriots, not Ukrainians.


That`s the highest estimate which is false. The latest findings tell about 60.000 as the highest.


Yes, just like Poles need to acknowledge that some cursed soldiers were brutal murderers, instead of honouring them.

Which half? How? China? russia helped communist China engineer the biggest famine in human history? proud!


That is just deranged.... no wonder everybody who deals with you ends up hating you.... russia is the common denominator in all of the countries that hate it.

Stop your whataboutism, unless the nkvd kill squads sent to hunt the cursed soliders were ukrainian, you are straying off topic.

No, I am not. I am only pointing to Polish hypocrisy and double standards. Polish cursed soldiers and Nationalist Brigades who killed innocent people are heroes in Poland. While Ukrainian cursed soldiers are murderers. Can you see it?

Sorry but if we demand apologies from others, we have to be clean and devoid of guilt ourselves. We are not.

That is why I still claim - Poles as a much older and mature nation should apologise first.

Sure, often important info can sound banal. Wanted to know if you are aware of those facts before you put a spin on it. Simple.


No way, your family was. Lies and BS to justfiy your rotten stance is not going to work, nor your leftie take on right and wrong. You have no leg to stand on, and what more you sound stupid and uneducted.

Equaling UPa and AK and their actions? Are you a cretin?
or a Leftie preacher, preaching its wrothless manure. Why don't you start preaching about Alphabet people -LGBT that would fun to mock you.

Who said I was talking about AK? You know nothing about cursed soldiers, it seems.


Yes, that`s your specialty.

Yes that is what i wrote agreeing with you in post 30 in case you missed it. But that has nothing to do with cursed soldiers which has nothing to do with ukraine. what is more relevant is the communist army and intelligence services which expelled Ukrainians from our new territories shortly after ww2

@amiga500
What is this apology obsession? It that commies left over or some Japanese trasplant?
Why don't you sniff each other asses for a good measure too!
Just do it in your name not mine.

It's called being smart and strategic, you think if the Israelis had to apologise first to the germans to get the benefits that they did, (for the rich jew landlords during the weimar crash etc) they wouldn't have done it?

Good question. We apologize for accidents WE caused, not deliberate acts by somebody else.

Where did "Cursed Soldiers" come from? The biggest organizations, such as NZW (Narodowe Zjednoczenie Wojskowe), WIN (Wolność i Niezawisłość), and NSZ (Narodowe Siły Zbrojne) - were primarily made up of AK fighters. For a brief time the AK existed in parallel, but afterwards those organizations carried the flag.

When the hunt for the "cursed" men started, Gomulka said - "Soldiers of the Armia Krajowa (AK) are a hostile element which must be removed without mercy". I think everyone understood what he meant, if even the nomenclature was not entirely correct.


Look, as I said already - this gives me no pleasure.... but there is no equivalency between what the Poles did and what the Ukrainians did. As much as I hate the AK, Cursed Soldiers, and every other manifestation of Polish nationalism - they largely fought honorably. Google their biggest actions.

In the so-called Battle of Kurylowka they attacked, and routed an NKVD regiment. In another instance, they attacked an NKVD camp located in in Rembertów on the eastern outskirts of Warsaw - liberating the Polish political prisoners incarcerated there. You really have to be reading some Pawian-style sources to find anything even remotely similar to Volyn (and even then, at a 100X reduced scale).

I take back what I said, it seems there was a ceasefire between WIN and UPA in 1945, with joint military actions attacking NKVD and other communist scum.


pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atak_na_Hrubiesz%C3%B3w

These are the parts of polish-ukranian relations that need to be celebrated and focused on, if the AK commanders could forgive the UPA commanders who participated in civilian massacres and work with them, then so can present day poles and ukranians unite.

Are you an idiot?

Militaries serve the citizens of the country in which they were raised. The moment a military begins to imagine itself bigger than the interests of the country, it has to be purged and broken.

Two degenerate commanders making an alliance of opportunity, is to you more important than the killing of 6 digit numbers of your compatriots?

Edit: Read about this daring attack. Hilarious.

It's the symbolism that matters, and the aim is to bring poles and ukranians together in our shared european home. From Kharkiv to Lisbon. Your aim on this forum is to drive us apart.

You want to embrace Ukrainian nationalists all day, be my guest.

Now you're the one being an idiot. You think Poland would send 2 percent of it's GDP as military aid to Ukraine without embracing ukranian nationalists?. (who are in government and in the military.) Times change and thanks to the ruskis our brotherhood and alliance has been cemented for decades if not centuries.

And yes the Boykos and Lemkos I know in Aus are Ukri nationalists, are friends with poles, and hate russia and putin with a passion.

No it's clear you are the idiot if you casually admit to consorting with Ukrainian nationalists. I don't even hang out with Russian nationalists, whom I consider idiots, let alone those vampires.

No, it called being a Polish teacher, an office worker or somesuch and having a big ego, talking about politicks as IF you knew what are you talking about.

Unfortunatly people like you form a public opinion, voting blocks and lots of politicians are a chip of the old block.
It doesn't work like you think it works.
What you have is -

youtu.be/tbU3zdAgiX8

I don't believe politics defines character and I don't let it affect who I hang out with.

I guess we would have to agree on a shared definition of what a nationalist is if you want to make statements like that.


Hilarious coming from a konfa voter, when is bosak finishing high school again?

@amiga500

In Russia nationalists are toxic. They don't seem to understand that Russia's path to greatness was through it being a melting pot of peoples, where nobody was above anybody else. We solved how to contain a large Muslim population, without compromising on our values - in a way that is much better than whatever the West is trying. We have important politicians and big businessmen from national minorities, which contribute enormously to the well being of the Russian state. We have Jewish, German, Polish-blooded scientists that add to the good name of Russia through their research. And so on, and so forth. If we really want Russian nationalism to flourish, we may as well live in Muscovy as you people suggest.

The Russian idea has to be bigger than Russian blood. Don't want to sound too pompous, but Russia is also an idea.

Sounds like what you are describing can be classed as Composite nationalism en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composite_nationalism

???

Russia has about 10% muslims (yes, I googled that!)...most of them live in the Caucasus...they have their own countries and societies....

If you would integrate them in the european part of Russia....in your big cities like Moscow etc....THEN you could compare with the West and see if you are successful!

...It also allowed Russia to claim a sense of belonging in the Muslim world, a position Putin has always been keen to emphasise....

france24.com/en/europe/20230516-turning-away-from-the-west-russia-seeks-to-strengthen-economic-ties-with-the-muslim-world

You won't hear that from a western country ever....hopefully! Begs the question who integrated whom....

Just one final post before I take another well deserved summer break...


If you think that any Pole, worthy of that name, has embraced or will ever embrace the Ukrainian nationalist legacy of OUN-UPA/SS-Galizien then you are one deluded Australian.

The rising support for Konfederacja (which is widely considered a pro-Russian party, or at least Ukraine-skeptical) indicates also, among other things, the rising objections among Poles towards unconditional support for Mr Zelensky's politics (I recommend Paweł Lisicki's editorial in the latest issue of Do Rzeczy).

As for our dear Ukrainian friends, allies and brothers - they have been glorifying UPA/SS-Galizien for over 30 years now, deciding that it's a good idea to build their national identity on that. They lied about it, sabotaged or falsified historical research and refused exhumation of Volyn victims. Their far-right elements, so celebrated now, even talked about territorial demands on Poland (so called Закерзоння, with ancient Ukrainian cities of Холм and Перемишль)...

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakerzonie

... some time ago I even posted photos of lovely Закерзоння banners that they like to display on various occasions. As for what Ukrainians did towards their Russian minority, I am not a specialist, so I won't write about that, but if even small part of what Velund and Bobko wrote about is true, then it looks like our dear friends and allies thought that they could spit on their western neighbours and spit on their eastern neighbours at the same time. Now they find themselves in a rather difficult predicament.

Karma is a lady whose livelihood depends on her engaging in sexual intercourse for monetary remuneration. Alas!

What a brilliant thread. It made me see so many things much clearer.

Have a nice summer, people! :)

Talking about a big ego....my man :D Thanks for proving my point for me/
I bet you have some diploma of achieving a BIG EGO buster on some uni and not much more beside it. ...


that is somewhat true, the problem is your idea of a state and a society suck big time.

I-S Hey Kania, see you were laughing when I said that Russia doesn't exist, see it is an idea!
I meant it doesn't excist as monolitic block or a nation state. In other words it is more complex issue that meet the eye. I guess you don't care...

It's a pity Kania has to check out after writing a post like that :/ Wishing you a good summer!

But yes Amiga, I think you've made a mistake aligning yourself with Pawian here. The Christian impulse behind the initiative is noble, though perhaps misguided. This is why I'm not so angry at Pawian, but more focused on the other nonsense that has appeared here.

I'm not against apologizing, but drawing false equivalencies. When it comes to Ukrainians, we have some very similar complaints against them, and they use the same arguments against us. Except, instead of oppression since the 11th century (as Pawian writes), they club us on the head with the Holodomor which they claim was purposefully engineered. All I have to say about that, is that Russians are some sh!t engineers, because the Holodomor ended up killing more Russians and Kazakhs than Ukrainians.