Terrible past for the Jews in Poland?

present numbers or the pre-WWII numbers?

Pre WWII

According to studies in school classes groups tend to get antagonistic when minority reaches certain numbers ( don't remember the numbers). It doesn't matter what the groups are, it's simply power.

@Lenka
Treated cause of religion wasn't my claim, so don't twist it. It's a Jewish myth, I only pointed out the ridiculesness of thinking that somebody outside a group based on faith would be treated 100% the same as a person that is within it.

Western societies have been far more monocollective (at least perceived itself as such) while Poland has been multi-collective.

Jewish collective has had a problem with the most dominant collective group in Poland after the thesis pushed by Polish far right groups that it was due to lack of cohesion of the Polish society/patriotism/faith/solidarity that lead to the partitions of Poland.

Why left wingers would rather blame the ruling social class solely,

I am more of the opinion that the international situation and choice of alliances had more to say and the unfortunate betting on Sweden as a resolution to Poland problems (later on Prussia/Russia/Austria depending on faction)

Polish internal disputes shouldn't be resolved by foreign powers, which certain factions wishes to draw in to the affairs of the Polish drama.

And once again: being Polish is not equal to being Catholic.

@Lenka
Before Baptism of Poland, there were Polanie, Lędzianie, Mazowszanie etc.

You can tell your fairy tell your fairy tale as much you want. Your free after all, doesn't make it true tho

Baptism of Poland was a political decision.

When you are proud of great Poles accomplishment do you exclude non Catholics?

@Lenka
Not only a political decision, it was a religious decision, spiritual decision, moral, civilizational, technological too. Groundbreaking to say the least.

I try not to feel pride, just like not wanting to steal, plunder, murder or throw unnecessary obscenities.

All of my acomplishments I thank God for, not myself. I can only thank God that Poland is still on this earth.

You seem to be under the impression that I lack things in my life and try to draw pride from others achievements in the past, which is wrong. It impresses me and gives motivation and confidence that I may do the same or better.

Your accusations and suspicions are hollow as your measuring it after hollow boys

I think he means that Catholic cultural legacy is a main part of what constitue Polish culture in its historical and spirtual legacy. If you accpet that legacy you need to accept Catholic part of it. There is no way around it. Doesn't mean that you need to become a person a faith.

Talking about shalow peasant Anti-clericalism or ignorant import of lefties idologies from the west or the east.
Or post-communist BS of yapping morons that are rebeling against going to the chruch or adherence to the church morality as if they were a special secert police units that would enforce that with guns.

@Cojestdocholery
Excactly

You don't have to be catholic to go to church or adhere to very strict moral standards (regarding e.g. abortion, euthanasia, family values etc.).

I am very socially conservative and live my life according to the Gospel of Our Lord Jesus Christ, but don't want to have anything to do with RCC. And I'm not alone - the ranks of evangelical Christians are swelling in recent years in Poland. Abandoning the corrupt and apostate RCC doesn't equal changing ones moral views and values (most often than not quite the contrary).

Please stick to the topic of the thread

@Milo,
I'd be a hypocrite if I denied the fact that a great many Jews refused to assimilate. The reality is that those same Jews were almost deathly afraid of losing their birth identity and for good reason were often loathe to trust local authorities whom they knew scarcely had their best interests at heart!

Originally, the Jews entered what was then the European continent sometime following the Destruction of the Second Temple, at which time the they were literally, and not figuratively, scattered to the four winds, most of whom ended up among peoples who despised them as outsiders.

How ironic, that a tribe which has known only hardship, contributing to some of that very hardship, should have become a nation unto themselves, defined by their infighting instead of by their unity.

Powerless and weak they may be.But they are still disgusting.
I get get your point though.


Of course I have decency in me!
I have nothing against
Jews most Jews that I have known I have loved.
My son in law runs a security agency his partner is a Jew and most of their clients are Jewish.


I did not.
I said that they caused many of their own problems.
That is not the same thing at all!
Don't start turning into Pawian.....


A Great post! Which throws up the real debate!

But you are a hypocrite, which is why my attitude to you has changed.
The majority of Jews refused to assimilate.


What the hell does that matter when it is a question of survival?
Some Jews chose wisely and shunned their "Birth Identity"(whatever that is!)


Do you know that as a fact?
Jews were welcomed to Poland when the rest of Europe rejected them.
The distrust of Jews came much later and all caused by Jewish behaviour, lack of respect and being introspective.

The will to live should override everything else - customs, habits, religion, how you speak, what you wear, hair, how you stand, and how walk. In this respect Jews during Hitler were dumber than a brick.

@Milo,
Once more, you're slandering me repeatedly, not because of anything I've posted, but solely because you want to dislike me personally, and not based on any tangible proof!

My posts haven't changed one iota since you and I have been corresponding. It's you who have changed for whatever reason, possibly legal or illegal drugs, probably because of the Covid innoculation.

As far as the topic, as many Jews throughout Europe wanted to assimilate as didn't. Look at Germany or Austria!

Concerning what I know for a fact, I know as much as you do, maybe more:-)

Learning a local language is not assimilation. Spies and Latino gangsters do that but nobody claims that they are assimilated.

My definition of assimilation...1. Loving the new country as much as you used to love the one you were born and raised in. 2. Your loyalty is 100% to the new one. Anything else is irrelevant. Even fluency in language as that skill is often impossible to acquire in spite of our best intentions. Like figure skating at 60+.

Exactly.And this is where Lyzko has lost the plot.


Not at all, I have nothing against you personally whatsoever!


Oh, but they have.
You were always very balanced and honest in previous posts.
But something has changed.
You have become more pro Jewish and anti Polish.
Which is divisive.


And with comments like that, you have become nasty too.


Not about Poland and Poles... you need extreme education!

You just made them as separate and equal rather than one as a subset of the other.

Separate yes, equal no.
Immigrants need to earn the respect of their hosts.

After multiple generations, you (editorial) are not an immigrant. If you (editorial) feel you are, GTFO.
This, my children, is why there were pogroms.
"Jews and Poles" implies legally equal. Like blacks and whites here.

No, pogroms took place coz Jews were considered alien by societies they tried to settle in. Primarily because of their different religion. It was easier to attack, rob, rape and kill aliens than your own group.

Rape Jews?

@Alien
Jewish women I guess

@pawian
A rather known form of "alien" society which has been in contact with Poles since beginning of Poland...

It's not excactly the same as with Vietnameese showing up in Poland after ww2...

@Rich,
"Assimilation" actually refers to the degree to which anyone feels comfortable within a society, adapts to most local customs or conventions, and above all, sees themselves as a part of rather than apart from their chosen community:-) Naturally, language to be sure plays a key role as well.

Assimilation certainly does NOT mean, nor has it ever meant, to jingoistically accept any or all dogma, doctrine etc. force fed down their throats. This is not assimilation, this is pure idiocy!!

Assimilation means stopping calling the locals "them". Like, we, the Jews, and them, the Poles. The second you say "Poles and us, the Jews" you are a foreign implant who should have his ass shipped out the next day.

Excuse me, but I've endeavored to make a distinction between Polish gentiles and Polish Jews:-) Clearly, I didn't make myself plain enough.

Did you ever say, Poles and Jews? Go ahead and make yourself plain.

pogroms were in Russia. Get it stright, other so called pogroms are incidents that need to be taken one by one.
Primary because they were seen as bloodsucking loan sharks and people that screwd and conned farmers.
That what they were doing in Poland for centures, helping nobles exploid peasants.

You mean there were no Jewish coal miners, fishermen, or firefighters? I am shocked.

@Cojestdocholery
What you expect, Jews in general are taught to read from a young age for religious reasons in the past. So naturally it leads it easier to professions in need of writing, like book keeping.

Can't excactly expect most of them to be hand picked for coal mining