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Terrible past for the Jews in Poland?



Des Essientes 7 | 1,296    
9 Apr 2015  #481

Harry now claims he mentioned the Madagascar Plan in conjunction with the Final Solution in order to contrast their vast difference! What an asinine attempt to backpedal! Harry, are you taking lessons from Netanyahu?


Harry 79 | 13,413    
9 Apr 2015  #482

Third time of asking: would you care to quote from a post in which I blame Poles for the Holocaust? Or shall we just conclude that such a quote exists only in your head?

are you taking lessons from Netanyahu?

Given that he's a vile bigoted homophobic racist liar, I have nothing for contempt for the man; are you trying to model yourself on his character?
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
9 Apr 2015  #483

Des Essientes - by blaming the innocent

Who do you refer to as the innocent in this case?
Harry 79 | 13,413    
9 Apr 2015  #484

In my opinion it does not matter. Poles like to point their fingers at Germany or Russia (and in some way rightly so) but when doing so they like to forget about the atrocities committed by Poles during the war.

It is interesting how attempts to discuss the anti-semitic past of (some) Poles and Poland meets with insults and attempts to drive the thread off topic.

I wonder how many streets in Poland would change their name if history would be taught without missing important factors.

The only one which springs readily to my mind is Dmowski. Personally I see nothing wrong with naming streets etc after the AF; sure, it had some members who were anti-semitic but it was not an anti-semitic organisation. It simply drew from the entire spectrum of the Polish population, so of course it would have some anti-semites back then. Even the Polish army in the west had problems with anti-semitism during WWII.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
9 Apr 2015  #485

It is interesting how attempts to discuss the anti-semitic past of (some) Poles and Poland meets with insults and attempts to drive the thread off topic.

Unfortunately it is something I have faced many times. Poles appear to need a bit longer than their neighbours Czech Republic. The Czech government is actively supporting organizations which work through all aspects of history. Even though sometimes not very welcomed by some, they have done a very good job so far even when it comes to the reconciliation of Germans being murdered by the Czech after the war. I guess it takes guts to look at history in all its colours.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,296    
9 Apr 2015  #486

How many "guts" does it take to be a German, whose government perpetrated the worst genocide in the history of mankind, to lecture Poles on not being culpable enough?
Vox - | 177    
9 Apr 2015  #487

What do you think reader? Am I right? If not, then why does Harry mention the "Madagascar plan" in conjunction with the "final Solution" and why would a plan that was merely investigated, and not implemented, be "by no means the least" part of a terrible past for the Jews in Poland?

I agree as I have already pointed out this particular logical fallacy.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
9 Apr 2015  #488

Des Essientes - How many "guts" does it take to be a German, whose government perpetrated the worst genocide in the history of mankind, to lecture Poles on not being culpable enough?

I am quite happy to stand up and admit my country's past mistakes. In fact, as someone from East Germany I even need to reconcile the mistakes of my birth country and the Germany before my home country was born. Why you can't do that for your country is something that you need to discuss with yourself.
Vox - | 177    
9 Apr 2015  #489

Unfortunately it is something I have faced many times. Poles appear to need a bit longer than their neighbours Czech Republic. The Czech government is actively supporting organizations which work through all aspects of history. Even though sometimes not very welcomed by some, they have done a very good job so far even when it comes to the reconciliation of Germans being murdered by the Czech after the war. I guess it takes guts to look at history in all its colours.

Seems to me you didn't need much time at all to became patronising and cheeky. If Poles will face something or not it is entirely up to them and they do not need your lecture. Aren't you too big for your shoes?
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
9 Apr 2015  #490

Vox - Seems to me you didn't need much time at all to became patronising and cheeky

My mother was born in Poland just after the war. She and her family was forcibly removed to Germany for having Germany ancestry which went back 200 years or so. That was the point my grandfather prohibited to speak Polish in our family.

Am i patronizing for asking for a proper reconciliation of true historic events? I hardly think so but statements like yours make me say that "I am German" instead of "I am half Polish". I am German with a mother born in Poland because people like you are unable to reconcile historic events properly. You are too consumed with playing the victim role because you feel too comfortable in playing the victim card instead of reconciling history properly.

Your white vest is more important to you than actual historic events. Quite sickening and disturbing considering that Poland wants to be part of a modern and forward thinking Europe.
TheOther 5 | 3,060    
9 Apr 2015  #491

"I am half Polish"

I'm sure a few more of our usual suspects will show up here very soon to tell you that you are a Volksdeutscher and not even remotely Polish... :)
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
9 Apr 2015  #492

TheOther-I'm sure

-

TheOther-Volksdeutscher

Negative TheOther! I don't care about this whole "Volksdeutscher" thing. Neither do i care for comments from people who are unable to read and understand. I have never made any claims on "German soil in Poland" and i also respect the new Polish borders.

However, after reading my post you have nothing better to do than come up with "Volksdeutscher" instead of asking yourself why Poland is unable to reconcile with it's history completely. Instead, you are trying to laugh it off with a nonsense post. Well done :)
Des Essientes 7 | 1,296    
9 Apr 2015  #493

I am German with a mother born in Poland because people like you are unable to reconcile historic events properly.

Can you explain this claim? Are you in the least bit ashamed to be complaining about the plight of ethnic Germans in a thread asking about the terrible past for Jews in Poland?
TheOther 5 | 3,060    
9 Apr 2015  #494

"Volksdeutscher"

You have no clue how things work on PF, my friend. There are already a few of these guys on this thread who have filed you under German = Nazi, in case you haven't noticed. And they are not Poles.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
9 Apr 2015  #495

TheOther - who have filed you under German = Nazi,

Really? Well, I did not have the impression until you have told me. Until now, I was quite happy to say that I am German and did not get any such response (apart from "Des Essientes" but i don't take him too serious) . Neither did I get any such response in real life here in Poland.

Speaking of which -

Des Essientes - Are you in the least bit ashamed

Are you in the least bit ashamed of what members of the AK did to Jews?

But to respond to your question. What exactly should i personally be ashamed of?
Des Essientes 7 | 1,296    
9 Apr 2015  #496

Hey, TheOther, why don't you post on the topic of the thread? Is making stupid claims about "usual suspects" and extending your friendship to condescending Germans really more important?

Hey, Jolly, I asked you if you are ashamed to be hijacking a thread about Polish Jews to make it about ethnic Germans. I ask because Germans murdered three million Polish Jews during WW2. Do you not see how the reader may find this shameful? As for the AK. They fought to liberate Poland from the very same Germans that murdered all those Jews. I am proud of the AK.
Vox - | 177    
9 Apr 2015  #497

My mother was born in Poland just after the war. She and her family was forcibly removed to Germany for having Germany ancestry which went back 200 years or so. That was the point my grandfather prohibited to speak Polish in our family. Am i patronizing for asking for a proper reconciliation of true historic events?

I see that asking you to recognize that your rant about history of your mother's family doesn't belong in the thread about Polish Jews is not on. If your modern and forward thinking is making you selfishly cry about forcible resettlement of your family I do not feel need to comment on your self congratulatory fettle. You have no shame, small wonder you are not able to restrain yourself in your need to lecture others on what is and what is not right, prattling away in your patronising and self-centred way.

As for true historical events you can blame Germany and German people for all that befallen your mother,because they started the war that in the end had a less than pleasant consequences for the perpetrators of the numerous crimes against humanity, as it should be.

Would you be able to stick to the topic of the thread and talk about Jews and their allegedly terrible past in Poland instead of whinging about Germans who at the end collectively got what they deserved.
Lyzko 17 | 3,637    
5 Aug 2015  #498

Merged: Leopold Socha - Jews savior, hero?

What with all these commemorations concerning the indeed valiant Warsaw Uprising in '44-45, it seems to me that equal attention should be paid to the brief, shining life of Leopold "Poldek" Socha, the sewage inspector in £ódź who hid Jews (even those who couldn't pay), losing his own life at only thirty-six while saving his young daughter's right after the war, in 1946.

As we Jews would say, may his memory be as a blessing!
Polsyr 6 | 777    
5 Aug 2015  #499

shining life of Leopold "Poldek" Socha

I have seen the movie "W ciemności" about him, but as far as movie goes, he was from Lwów not £ódź.
Lyzko 17 | 3,637    
5 Aug 2015  #500

Ooops. Guess, I'll have to re-read the Wiki-Pol. entry:-)
thanks!
Vox - | 177    
5 Aug 2015  #501

@Lyzko"What with all these commemorations concerning the indeed valiant Warsaw Uprising in '44-45, it seems to me that equal attention should be paid to the brief, shining life of Leopold "Poldek" Socha, "

Are you implying that death about 300 000 people in the Battle for Warsaw should be put on par with a fate of a single person? That struck me not only as callus and immoral in extreme but there are also deeper implications I don't want to go into. I can only say that your world is a very dark and creepy place Lyzko.
Lyzko 17 | 3,637    
5 Aug 2015  #502

You missed the entire point, Voxie!
yehudi 1 | 436    
5 Aug 2015  #503

he was from Lwów not £ódź.

Correct. But he was Polish, and Lvov was then a Polish city. I'm not sure what Vox and Lyzko are arguing about but it was a very strong movie.
Lyzko 17 | 3,637    
5 Aug 2015  #504

Yehudi,

Vox claimed I was comparing the tragic death in a street accident of Socha's young daughter with the death of numerous AK fighters in Warsaw.

The person obviously grossly misunderstood what I was saying:-)
Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
19 Nov 2015  #505

Jewish conspiracies to rule the world

Jews themselves believe they rule the world but almost never admit it when goyim are present.
Lyzko 17 | 3,637    
19 Nov 2015  #506

,,,and they then believe falsely! We Jews represent but a drop in the bucket of humanity!!! Jewish "conspiracy"??! Don't believe it for a milli-second:-)
Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
19 Nov 2015  #507

a drop in the bucket

But a "drop" that is disproportionately more culturally and economically intelligent, potent, dynamic, influential and strategically positioned than any other nation on earth. And more power to them! Their problem is that people envy them their success to such an extent as to repeatedly even threaten their very existence. It should never be forgotten that there are only 15 million Jews worldwide -- as many as Serbo-Croats. Is there any comparison in terms of power and influence?!
rozumiemnic 9 | 3,328    
19 Nov 2015  #508

as many as Serbo-Croats

there is no such person as a 'Serbo Croat'. Just saying.
Ironside 44 | 8,292    
19 Nov 2015  #509

But a "drop" that is disproportionately more culturally and economically intelligent

Bah, to be honest they have a far share of less than peachy individuals. Even the word descripting individual like that osmoses into the English language - schmuck.

influential and strategically positioned than any other nation on earth.

Well, because they put their money where their mouth is unlike some ... cough ....cough other people.
Polonius3 1,019 | 12,554    
19 Nov 2015  #510

Serbo Croat

That's what we call a skrót myślowy in Polish. OK: Serbs and Croates. I studied Serbo-Croatian at uni, so it was a knee-jerk reflex.




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