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remember, forget, forgive, blame ... Holocaust Memorial Day in Poland


Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,836
27 Jan 2010 #61
Axishistory forum? Is it something like an Adolf/Benito/All-the-Lesser-Axis-Twats Fanclub?

Well....if Axishistory isn't good enough for you, here a jewish news site:

ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3774804,00.html

Oh and Nika...another Poll just for you: encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-20748312.html

Most Israeli Jews satisfied with Germany's attitude towards Holocaust

It's people like you they can't stand....wonder why!
TheOther 5 | 3,831
27 Jan 2010 #62
no germans= no ww1 = no versailles = no WWII = no holocaust = milions of lifes saved

No WW2 - no Polish Forums - no endless discussions about the war - peace and quiet - hundreds of souls saved ...
Nika 2 | 507
27 Jan 2010 #63
BB you really are a funny guy.
Torq 26 | 2,371
27 Jan 2010 #64
It's people like you they can't stand...

I met quite a few Israelis and got along perfectly well with all of them, thank you...

...but thanks for speaking in their name - I'm sure they'd appreciate it *rolls eyes*

Anyways - gotta catch some z's. Goodnight, BB (and don't spend too much time
on that scary AxisForums board - it will give you nightmares ;)).
convex 20 | 3,978
27 Jan 2010 #65
hundreds of souls saved ...

thousands
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,836
27 Jan 2010 #66
BB you really are a funny guy.

Well you are not! You are in serious need of some historical lessons...why not start on this memorial day?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
28 Jan 2010 #67
wonder why!

Because while you caved in to all demands having no choice we did not.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,836
28 Jan 2010 #68
That too...

But on the other side trying to make amends with the real victims and somewhat repay them (even if that can never be enough) it's okay with me...it's all these hangers-on and freeloader who grate on my nerves, third generation-to late, who never experienced anything, but feel obliged to wiggle their fat fingers into a Germans face whenever they feel so, probably because once in a year they discover their love for Jews and think they have now some leverage against Germany.

Get lost all!
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
28 Jan 2010 #69
But on the other side trying to make amends with the real victims and somewhat repay them

Which is why i said you didnt have the choice, we're not the culprits here and just because Jews want money out of sheer greed doesnt mean we have to or shoud pay them.

Our resistance to such outrageous demands gave birth to Israeli prejudice, the world spoiled Jews and like a spoiled brat they jump up and down when denied.
Easy_Terran 3 | 312
28 Jan 2010 #70
Things like Jedwabne make me think that maybe not everyone had a problem with killing jews

And what had happened in there? German kommando killed 200+ Jews with a help of 40 inhabitants of Jedwabne still remaining on-site. Do you know when a lot of people of Jedwabne were living at that time?

when you think about the Holocaust , poland comes to my mind .
poland is responsable for this too.

So that's done then: antipolish propaganda achieved its goal: whitewashed the Germans and blamed the Poles. Bravo!

Everyone who sat on their ass and did nothing is culpable

LOL
Usual BULLSH!T of someone who has no goddamn clue of the realities of those times.
What, say people of Oswiecim, were supposed to do? Write angry letters to Hitler? Or maybe organized a SWAT team, bite through the electric fences, kill all the Germans, rescue all the prisoners and then ..wait for it.. disappear in a mist...?

Crap like yours being spread around the net pisses me off the most.

We did, just a few years back. The only difference is that this happened in our backyard. It is still happening, right now, in our lifetime. In our last decade. That is the sad part.

What did you do to help those suppressed? Oh, you were too busy seating in your comfy chair and blaming others, weren't you?

How about Kielce? Is that debatable?

Oh, very much so. Fact that it was a Soviet provocation tells volumes here.

Poles were as responsible as Germans for the Holocaust

Of course! Jews, and only Jews weren't kill in 'Polish Death Camps' without a reason, were they?
convex 20 | 3,978
28 Jan 2010 #71
LOL
Usual BULLSH!T of someone who has no goddamn clue of the realities of those times.
What, say people of Oswiecim, were supposed to do? Write angry letters to Hitler? Or maybe organized a SWAT team, bite through the electric fences, kill all the Germans, rescue all the prisoners and then ..wait for it.. disappear in a mist...?

Crap like yours being spread around the net pisses me off the most.

Yea, you don't get it. If there were more people like Witold Pilecki, that might have been a reality. My point is that apathy is dead square in the middle of resistance and collaboration. You don't think it's a little bit immoral and cowardly to watch something go on in front of your eyes and not react? There were lots of heroes, there were many, many, many more cowards.

What did you do to help those suppressed? Oh, you were too busy seating in your comfy chair and blaming others, weren't you?

It's a comfy couch. I already stated that I didn't do anything, and probably wouldn't have done anything because I would have been too much of a coward, much like the majority of the populace. If you'd take a second to actually read the remarks, you'd already know that.

Oh, very much so. Fact that it was a Soviet provocation tells volumes here.

The soviets made us kill the baby stealing jews, yea i don't know about that. so you're saying that they were just retarded, and not evil?
EchoTheCat - | 137
28 Jan 2010 #72
oh, so it's Versaille that's responsible for Holocaust? That's something new.....

Versaille was one of the reasons why Hitler came to power. After Versaille the situation in Germany was horrible. People had no job, no food, no money. Instead of this they had crazy inflation (for 1 kilo of potatoes they paid 5,000,000 of marks!), world crisis and no industry. Germans was desperated and that's why Hitler, which was the populist, was so popular. Most of Germans voted for Hitler not because they were Nazis but because they were hopeless and he gave them a chance to change something. So, partly, Versaille was responsibled for WWII.
Easy_Terran 3 | 312
28 Jan 2010 #73
Yeah...like in Kielce, right?
The only pogrom where Jews were murdered after the liberation of Auschwitz and the end of the Holocaust!
You never needed Germans for killing Jews!

Joking here, right?

Whereas you repeat the mantra of the heroic mass of Poles with only a few bad apples? Why is it that the Jews have it mostly the other way around???

Because Germany paid and Poland didn't, so Singer-like circles made their extremely good job of smearing campaign of Poland and the Poles?

Because while you caved in to all demands having no choice we did not.

Well, exactly my point.

Get lost all!

My grandparents spent WWII in Germany as slave workers. They met each other there. Should they had got something, as of money? If so, they didn't receive ONE zloty, nor ONE Deutsche Mark.

Should they get lost? Well, they did. They both passed away in commie-fvcking-crawling Poland, still as fvcking slaves, just to a different regime.

If there were more people like Witold Pilecki, that might have been a reality (...) There were lots of heroes, there were many, many, many more cowards.

I already stated that I didn't do anything,

Yea, you don't get it

No, I don't.

If you'd take a second to actually read the remarks, you'd already know that.

Read it all. Stop this bullsh!t and say what is wrong with you.

The soviets made us kill the baby stealing jews

Are you retarded, is that a whole issue?
Or are you just playing a retard?

Ruskie high commandier on-site, ruskies in the crowd, milicja in the crowd, civil war in a background. Yeah, it was all about a rumor of one kid kidnapped.

Go back to a sandbox and play with another kids, okay?
Quickly, p!ss off!
convex 20 | 3,978
28 Jan 2010 #74
No, I don't.

Obviously.

Anyway, I probably won't get any further with someone who just ends up resorting to personal attacks because of hurt feelings.

Ruskie high commandier on-site, ruskies in the crowd, milicja in the crowd, civil war in a background. Yeah, it was all about a rumor of one kid kidnapped.

The obviously biased and pro Russian IPN was wrong when they said that Soviets didn't play any significant role in the murders. Hey, you're out of bad guys to blame this one on. No bad Germans, no bad Russians, you want to go with bad communists on this one?

Anyway, might not want to take too much of that pride, seems really easy to OD.
Harry
28 Jan 2010 #75
Ruskie high commandier on-site, ruskies in the crowd, milicja in the crowd, civil war in a background. Yeah, it was all about a rumor of one kid kidnapped.

So you're going for the 'the Poles in Kielce were retarded' line of defense, OK.
Easy_Terran 3 | 312
28 Jan 2010 #76
convex:
If there were more people like Witold Pilecki, that might have been a reality (...) There were lots of heroes, there were many, many, many more cowards.

convex:
I already stated that I didn't do anything,

convex:
Yea, you don't get it

easy:
No, I don't.

No, you don't

Does anyone? Does anyone get your contradictory bullcrap?

who just ends up resorting to personal attacks

Oh, was that a personal attack? To finish this off, call me an anti-semite, and we're done here. You could then return to your hasbara manual.

BTW, do you know where many people of Jedwabne were living in 1941, or not?

So you're going for the 'the Poles in Kielce were retarded' line of defense, OK.

LOL, where did you get this notion from, Mr. Smarty-Pants? The retarded ones put all the blame onto bystanders, which, nota bene, 12 of them were executed for some Ruskie sh!t commander playing god.

And dont' get too cocky.
Have you started informing people about the Bielskis bros being soooooo very Polish yet?
Torq 26 | 2,371
28 Jan 2010 #77
Scanned from "Tygodnik Powszechny"

Auschwitz - Children Carts

The Polish text on the right side of the drawing says...

The drawing of Francis Reisz, Austrian Jew who survived Auschwitz. After the liberation
he was treated in a hospital in Paris, where he wrote memoirs from the camp - his own
and other camp survivors also treated in the same hospital; he also made illustrations.
Later, in New York, he was an illustrator and he designed book covers. He wrote:

"My strongest emotions connected with the years that I spent in the camp are the
visual memories that I have from there (...) I saw how SS very meticulously put the
carts of gassed children in 5 rows, because Ordnung muß sein."

It is very important that we remember the bestiality of Germans, their administration,
German occupational authorities, Gestapo, SS, German army, German police, German
railway officials, German doctors, and the representatives of German industry and science
who planned, organised and executed the holocaust of entire nations including little babies,
whose carts were put neatly in five rows, because, like the Germans say - "Ordnung muss
sein" (orderliness must exist, everything in its place). Let's never forget who were the
victims and who were the bestial, inhuman murderers (especially today, when many people
are trying to transfer the responsibility from the perpetrators to their victims).
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,836
28 Jan 2010 #78
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland#The_Holocaust:_German-occupied_Poland

"Was it inevitable that the Jews, looking their last on this world as they rode in the death trains speeding from different parts of the country to Treblinka or other places of slaughter, should have had to witness indifference or even joy on the faces of their neighbors?

In the summer of 1942, when carts packed with captive Jewish men, women and children moved through the streets of the capital, did there really need to be laughter from the wild mobs resounding from the other side of the ghetto walls, did there really have to prevail such blank indifference in the face of the greatest tragedy of all time?"

Quoted in Antony Polonsky & Joanna B. Michlic
Yeah...those heroic masses...

holocaustsurvivors.org/data.show.php?di=record&da=encyclopedia&ke=107

...Jewish Holocaust survivors grew up in Poland in the 1920's and 1930's and survived in Poland of the 1940's. Their memories in the present are based on what were current events back then. Their experience of Poland ended when they left the country; and most either never returned after WWII or left after the massacre of 42 Jews in Kielce by a Polish mob in 1946.Poland was a very anti-Semitic society in the years just before and after WWII.

It is hard to know how many Poles had sympathy for their Jewish neighbors but were paralyzed into inaction by fear.Yet incidents described above were frequent enough that it was a common Jewish perception of Polish attitudes that they were either indifferent to Jewish suffering or positively glad that the Jews were being removed.

Oh those heroic polish masses!
Harry
28 Jan 2010 #79
It is very important that we remember the bestiality of Germans

And it is also very important that we remember that the holocaust could not have taken place as it did without all the very willing non-German helpers. To give just one example, the Jewish gestapo were far more feared in Polish ghettos than the German gestapo.
Torq 26 | 2,371
28 Jan 2010 #80
From the same issue of "Tygodnik Powszechny" - the drawings of an unknown author
from a copybook found in Auschwitz II - Birkenau after the defeat of the German army
and consequent liberation of the camp (a couple of months before their sure defeat
the Germans ordered the liquidation of the camp, however, before they could complete
the liquidation the camp was liberated and the survivors were helped by Soviet medical
units, Polish Red Cross and local volunteers.)

Notice the little kid, among the Jews escorted by German soldiers (in the bottom right
corner of the drawing C). The little kid - most likely murdered, gassed by the Germans,
simply because he was Jewish (just as thousands of Polish children were murdered only
because they were Polish). We must NEVER forget, we must never be deceived, never
confuse the victims and the murdering animals who killed them.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,836
28 Jan 2010 #81
Ooops...some more of those heroic polish masses:

abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=7643897&page=3

....
Denunciation was so common in Poland that there was a special term for paid informants "Szmalcowniki" (previously a term for a fence). In many cases, the denouncers knew their victims.

From the same issue of "Tygodnik Powszechny" - the drawings of an unknown author

Maybe we are not on the same page here...all you bring about the German crimes are open "secrets", EVERYBODY and their grandmom knows about, no sane German will deny them...but compared to you we had the guts to face up to them. There are memorials, documentations abundance about it.

It's YOU who need to put away your blinders.
The holocaust could never had happened without the often enthusiastic help of those who were the neighbours of the about to be murdered Jews in Eastern Europe.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
28 Jan 2010 #82
Ooops...some more of those heroic polish masses:

I love it BB, a descendant of the single most barbaric inhuman nation in the history of mankind shifting blame.

Great grandson of murderers pointing fingers?:)

but compared to you we had the guts to face up to them. There are memorials, documentations abundance about it.

BB you know i'm civil and rational but please dont insult Poles and Poland by comparing your people to ours, even Mongols didnt come up with what your grandfather and his neighbours did between beers.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,836
28 Jan 2010 #83
Great grandson of murderers pointing fingers?:)

Not shifting the blame..you Poles are not able to do something so sophisticated on your own.
Building a modern factory to kill people is a german thing to do, smart engineers that we are...you Poles and other eastern Europeans preferred shovels and batons!

Even after the mass killing was already over..

No shifting needed, all facts:

In the killing fields of Eastern Europe, there were up to 10 local helpers for every German policeman. The ratio is similar in the extermination camps.

Oh, and thanks for your help btw.

And isn't it interesting that after the war the few surving Jews fled the "heroic polish masses" westwards? TO GERMANY???

...
The pogrom in Kielce was one of the factors that led to a mass westward migration of hundreds of thousands of Jews who had survived the Holocaust.
Known as the Brihah, this movement brought Jews from Poland and other countries of eastern Europe to displaced persons camps located...

!
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
28 Jan 2010 #84
Not shifting the blame..you Poles are not able to do something so sophisticated on your own.

You mean create death factories? I dont think anyone except Germans was capable of that ,even Russians cruel as their gulags were lacked your efficiency and skill you can be proud:))

Building a modern factory to kill people is a german thing to do

Oh yes it is, it most definitely is.

engineers that we are...

Actually you're just a bunch of barbaric twats who clothed their inhumanity in suits and pretend they're civil like the rest of the world:)

you Poles and other eastern Europeans preferred shovels and batons!

so does it make you feel any better by posting this rubbish? Poland has the most "just among the nations" in the world, we have never stained ourselves with the kind of thing you did not because we're inefficient but because we're human beings.

Listening to you going about how the land you stole from Poland is German or how cool you are when you gassed people instead of say beating them to death i'm glad your nation is in such decline, maybe at one point history will return the favor you once delivered.

Oh, and thanks for your help btw.

Were they willing or under the gun? How did they help? Because Germans herded people to dig mass graves, you're not only shifting facts you're lying and altering the truth to make the guilt both yours and your predecessors somewhat less.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,836
28 Jan 2010 #85
in the world, we have never stained ourselves with the kind of thing you did not because we're inefficient but because we're human beings.

Yeah...you and your kind are repeating that over and over....only to protest soon against another kind of percieved "anti-polish propaganda" just because the Jews themselves and the rest of the world laughs about your presumption!

i'm glad your nation is in such decline, maybe at one point history will return the favor you once delivered.

Rofl, we are ruling Europe with you Poles living on handouts....not much changed, and not much will change ever!
Torq 26 | 2,371
28 Jan 2010 #86
Denunciation was so common in Poland that there was a special term for paid informants "Szmalcowniki" (previously a term for a fence). In many cases, the denouncers knew their victims.

"Szmalcownicy" were executed equally by the Home Army and the communist partisans.
When they were caught, they were shot like dogs. They weren't considered human,
they were "szmalcownicy".

They were rewarded generously by the Germans, and fought ruthlessly by Polish resistance.

A couple of more photos (click to enlarge the pictures):

1. German officer shooting the Jewish women who survived the liquidation
of Mizocz ghetto in Ukraine.

2. Chivalric, knightly soldiers of Wehrmacht watching the execution of civilians
(oh - this valiant, brave German army!).

3. German "ubermenschen" are taking care of prisoners in Buchenwald.

But of course - the entire might of the German Reich, German Army, German industry
German administrative authorities, German Police
etc. etc. - could never have done it
without the help of a couple of Szmalcowniks.

Rofl, we are ruling Europe with you Poles living on handouts

Living on handouts? LOL :-))))

I love it when people show their true colours...
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,836
28 Jan 2010 #87
Yes, Torq WE know about it....why don't you read some of the links I posted to get YOUR own history straight and cut the crap about the "heroic polish masses"?

Holocaust denial is not MY problem!

10 to 1, Torq!

10 enthusiastic helpers for every German...of course now loudly screaming "we are innocent - it was all the germans"

There is only one thing worse than a criminal, lying, denying and not facing up...a coward!

The coming years will bring out much more of these dreary facts and uncomfortable history...the research has just started...if you sputted at "Neighbours" or "Fear" already there is much more to come.

Fear-Anti-Semitism-Poland-After-Auschwitz

Gross notes that when the Germans were trying to put down the Warsaw ghetto uprising, Poles-including children-not only cheered as Jewish snipers were spotted and killed but gleefully showed the Germans where Jews were hiding.

Will be interesting to watch you throwing tantrums and spouting about "anti-polish propaganda" or "anti-polish jewish conspiracy"...;)

As the slaughter of Jews began, police and military officials either joined in the outrages or refused to intervene. In succeeding years, with the complicity of Communist authorities, the position of the remaining Polish Jews continued to deteriorate.

By 1949, the goal of the Nazis had been achieved: Poland was essentially free of Jews.

See the date???

End
Sokrates 8 | 3,346
28 Jan 2010 #88
Rofl, we are ruling Europe with you Poles living on handouts....not much changed, and not much will change ever!

You mean with Poland being the only economy in Europe thats growing in the time of crisis while your barbaric country dies out and dwindles because of its welfare policies?:)

Take care Nazi grandson at this rate we're not only going to buy out your border:)))

Holocaust denial is not MY problem!

Yes it is only because you cant deny it you attempt to shift the blame captain "Ubermensch":)
Torq 26 | 2,371
28 Jan 2010 #89
Holocaust denial is not MY problem!

You do seem, however, to have trouble accepting that it wasn't only the German
Einsatzgruppen who murdered Jews and executed the plan of Holocaust.
Those who equally took part in it were the army, police, railway officials, doctors,
industrialists, administrative authorities etc. etc. (I could go on like that).

It was a German plan, German supervision and German execution (with some
non-German helpers throughout Europe - I don't deny that).

10 to 1, Torq!

Bollox.

10 Polish soldiers murdering Jews for every German soldier doing the same?
10 Polish doctors conducting bestial experiments on prisoners for every German doctor?
10 Polish officials involved in the Holocaust for every German official? etc. etc.
I don't think so.

Cut the crap.

Szmalcownicy (hunted down like dogs and executed by both AK and communist
partisans) or a couple of pogroms by peasants, compared to the entire Holocaust
of millions and millions of people from numerous nations, organised officialy by the
German state? Gimme a break.
z_darius 14 | 3,969
28 Jan 2010 #90
Holocaust denial is not MY problem!

I agree.
Your problem is that it is illegal for you to have an honest debate about all the facts and scope of the holocaust. You could face prosecution in Germany for even trying to get to the bottom of facts.

We don't know how many people were direct victims of the holocaist. Was it 10 million? 30?
All we know is that the ww2 holocaust included Romani, Jews, ethnic Poles, Soviet civilians and prisoners of war, people with disabilities, homosexuals, Jehovah's Witnesses etc.


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