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Whom do the people in Poland hate more: Germans or Russians?


wildrover 98 | 4,451
5 Sep 2014 #631
Poles don,t like any other nation . . .they will tolerate them while they are working in those countries , but they don,t like them . . .
Looker - | 1,079
5 Sep 2014 #632
Poles don,t like any other nation

For me it's quite opposite - we are mostly very open to expats. Maybe just some uneducated people are less tolerant and this is changing for the better - Poles overall are friendly to all.
PC_Sceptic - | 70
5 Sep 2014 #633
I once-over the 23 pages of this thread, so I could miss it.
Anyhow, there is an old saying.

"Fighting Russians is a passion"
fighting Germans is a duty"
Wulkan - | 3,249
5 Sep 2014 #634
"Fighting Russians is a passion"fighting Germans is a duty"

truth
Looker - | 1,079
5 Sep 2014 #635
Maybe during and just after WWII

"Fighting Russians is a passion"
fighting Germans is a duty"

Probably a nationalist slogan although most blame Russian government because of the all Ukraine thing.
Jardinero 1 | 405
5 Sep 2014 #636
PC_Sceptic:"Fighting Russians is a passion"
fighting Germans is a duty"

Times are always a changing - time to move on folks instead of dwelling on the past needlessly. Even the title of this post is disturbing, to say the least...

To Mod: I say it's time to close this thread - don't you agree?
PC_Sceptic - | 70
6 Sep 2014 #637
Probably a nationalist slogan although most blame Russian government because of the all Ukraine thing.

It ain't no nationalistic slogan, i heard this from my great-grandfather, it has roots from well before WW II

Times are always a changing - time to move on folks instead of dwelling on the past needlessly. Even the title of this post is disturbing, to say the least.

Times are always changing, but nobody can change 1.000 year old history. "Past is the part of my future"

In my opinion the word "hate" is not adequate. I see distrust, suspiciousness, From German side nobody trusted Hitler (to the lesser degree Otto Bismark)

Bur the Russians are champions in deception, so from Russian side there is whole bunch of propaganda dudes using treachery as their choice of weapons. All the treaties signed over the Centuries were almost always broken by the Russians.

Partitioning of Poland was Catherine idea, Catherine (the great) II of Russia with her personal advisor General Ivan Chernyshyov suggested to Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig (Heinrich) that Prussia and Russia annex/divide among them self's some Polish land,..

Austrian weren't so much interested at first. Finally when they did participate, it was only partition that flourished so to speak. Polish language was widely used, education was allowed. Contrary to Prussian section that the only good thing under Prussians was development.

And the Russians neglected all, language, education and the economic development.

Stalin who hated Poles with passion, starved millions of Ukrainians during holodomor famine genocide during 1932-1933. For some strange reason some Ukrainians have sentiments towards S.Bandera but forgot who starved them in millions. back in holodomor days.

I don't see any massive patriotic movement in Ukraine to defend it'self (I do not count extremists) presently.

The bottom line is, that there were less wars with Germany than Russia. In total 40 mostly smaller conflicts with Germans, apart of WW II which wan't small same as Battle with Teutons

To the 47 with Russians about half of them major conflicts.
If someone wants I can list them all.

My final words, I don't trust the Russians whatsoever. I can make a deal (any deal) with Germans but will read the fine print hundred times before signing
Szalawa 3 | 248
6 Sep 2014 #638
Partitioning of Poland was Catherine idea, Catherine (the great) II of Russia with her personal advisor General Ivan Chernyshyov suggested to Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig (Heinrich) that Prussia and Russia annex/divide among them self's some Polish land,..

She was German born in Prussia, So Germans are not trustworthy either
PC_Sceptic - | 70
6 Sep 2014 #639
I was waiting for such reply. Catherine was self serving individual. For her, the power was more important than her own people. Actually she didn't care about her own people. Her legacy left to the Romanov was spark for the Bolshevik revolution..

Again, her allegiance was to herself, Not Austria, not Prussia and for sure not Poland.
lacabec
6 Oct 2014 #640
Pols hate Russians because of their Catholic religion, as simple as that.
Wulkan - | 3,249
6 Oct 2014 #641
You mean our Catholic religion is telling us to hate Russians?
Szalawa 3 | 248
6 Oct 2014 #642
Pols hate Russians because of their Catholic religion, as simple as that.

You mean our Catholic religion is telling us to hate Russians?

No I think he means that Poles and Russian would both be closer if Poland was majority orthodox. I suppose there might be some truth in that with people that put a high value on religion.
Wulkan - | 3,249
6 Oct 2014 #643
No I think he means that Poles and Russian would both be closer if Poland was majority orthodox.

If this is what he means than I can asure him that in Poland nobody cares that Russians have different kind of Christianity just like we don't care that the English are Protestants and so on.
Sasha 2 | 1,083
6 Oct 2014 #644
Might not this be that overlook it for you're an atheist? I would think that it's nearly as important for relationship as speaking a common language.

Good example for me as a Russian: Serbs and Croats. Basically the same folk, the latter oftentimes colder than the former. (not to mention relationship between these two).
Paulina 10 | 1,728
7 Oct 2014 #645
Might not this be that overlook it for you're an atheist?

Well, I'm religious and I agree with Wulkan.

I would think that it's nearly as important for relationship as speaking a common language.

Not really... o_O :) Of course it is a factor to some extent since Poles seem to be often more fond of Catholic nations, because they have some things in common with them. But generally people here are pretty oblivious to other Christian denominations and they don't care. I would say that Russians I've discussed with are far more fixated on the fact that Poles are Catholics and are "ruled by Vatican" etc. :) They seem to have a problem with the fact that Poles are Catholics and not the other way around...

Btw, Ukrainians aren't exactly Catholics either, are they... :)
Religion isn't the problem here...
Sasha 2 | 1,083
7 Oct 2014 #646
Not really

I sincerely wish you were right.

I would say that Russians I've discussed with are far more fixated on the fact that Poles are Catholics and are "ruled by Vatican" etc. :)

It's true both ways.

Btw, Ukrainians aren't exactly Catholics either, are they... :)

They are not. You mean to say they are not as fixated as the Russians?

Religion isn't the problem here...

I'm not saying it is a problem somewhere more than elsewhere, I'm just emphasizing it's one of the separating factors, a pretty strong one. As you pointed out the Russians are fixated on this, yes I agree and many Poles are fixated on this as well. I do not compare (though have a feeling that overall the Russians are indeed obsessed more with that distinction as they want to feel like a 'bigger brother'), that's not my point.
L777
7 Oct 2014 #647
I'm just emphasizing it's one of the separating factors, a pretty strong one. As you pointed out the Russians are fixated on this, yes I agree and many Poles are fixated on this as well

Religion wouldn't be an issue here if not for a stronger factor at play. Russia equals Asiatic culture and Poland equals western culture.
Szalawa 3 | 248
8 Oct 2014 #648
Really? I say its politics that is the strongest factor.
Both are Slavic culture and both are European culture. Lots of overlap in food, language, traditions etc. Tatars are Asiatic culture, Russian is not.
Crow 146 | 9,105
8 Oct 2014 #649
Both are Slavic culture and both are European culture. Lots of overlap in food, language, traditions etc.

genetics even proved that Polish Slavic population represent paternal population to the more eastward Russian Slavic population. Meaning- Russians are Polish settlers who dispersed on East in time immemorial (Proto Slavic era).

By the same genetic experts, if we sum it up, Poles themselves represent mainly children of the Balkan Slavic population (from Balkan ice age refugium) that in time immemorial migrated along the Danube river up to Baltic. Later, from the Ukraine (from Crimean ice age refugium), more Slavs arrived in Poland and gave admixture to the the Danubian branch already settled there.

At the end of great inter-Slavic migrations, still in time immemorial, large groups of Slavs from what is today`s Russia moved back to Poland and even more westward, moved to the Balkan and what is today`s Ukraine.
L777
8 Oct 2014 #650
Both are Slavic culture and both are European culture

Russia is not European culture. The term Slavic culture is as meaningless as Germanic culture in describing modern nations.
Wulkan - | 3,249
8 Oct 2014 #651
I have to agree with that.
Paulina 10 | 1,728
8 Oct 2014 #652
I sincerely wish you were right.

Well, have you heard about the annual Taizé European ecumenical meetings for young adults? I was told by an Italian guy when I was on one in Hamburg that Poles are always the most numerous group (and those meetings are really big). Maybe young Russians should try those :)

You now, John Paul II was putting quite strong emphasis on ecumenism and maybe quite many Poles my age and younger were influenced by that. I guess I'm one of that "JPII generation".

It's true both ways.

What makes you think that?

They are not. You mean to say they are not as fixated as the Russians?

I don't know, I haven't discussed with Ukrainians, only with Russians. What I meant was that Poles have lots of sympathy for Ukrainians nowadays, despite the fact they aren't Catholic and Russians and Ukrainians seem to hate each other despite the fact they're Orthodox.

I'm not saying it is a problem somewhere more than elsewhere, I'm just emphasizing it's one of the separating factors, a pretty strong one.

Well, as I wrote before it is "a" factor, but I wouldn't say it's a strong one.

IAs you pointed out the Russians are fixated on this, yes I agree and many Poles are fixated on this as well.

You mean that Poles are fixated on the fact that Russians are Othodox? I must say I haven't noticed anything of this kind and I live in a very traditional, religious region of Poland (it's called the Holy Cross Province, so you can imagine :)) Authorities in my city put Ukrainian flags together with Polish ones on street lamps all the way across the main promenade in my city during the Ukraine crisis to show solidarity with the Ukraine nation. Noone seems to care that Ukrainians are Othodox :)

If you've discussed with Poles who were fixated on the fact that Russians are Orthodox, then I don't know, maybe they were right-wingers or sth?

As for the Russian "obsession" with that distinction then I suspect there may be two reasons for that. For Russians, it seems, Catholicism is a Western invention and yet another sign of "Polish betrayal" or sth, I guess :))

Another reason may be the fact that Orthodox nations are mainly constricted to one rather closed region of Europe and they are usually Slavic nations, while there are more different Catholic nations around the world and for us it's more universal and maybe that's why we don't think that it's so important whether given nation is Catholic or not.

According to CBOS polls Czechs and Slovaks are Poles' most favourite nations. Czechs are always on the first place despite the fact that they're one of the most atheistic nations in the world. Norwegians are, according to the latest poll, for some reason, on the 7th place although they're Lutherans.

I have an impression that even from the Russian perspective it's not really about religion, to be honest. What, for example, religion has to do with being "bigger brother"?

Btw, Romania is an Orthodox country - do you feel like you have a warmer attitude towards Romanians than, I don't know, to Poles or Finns or Hungarians?

Russia is not European culture.

Oh come on. I wouldn't go that far.
Szalawa 3 | 248
9 Oct 2014 #653
Romania is an Orthodox country - do you feel like you have a warmer attitude towards Romanians

I knew a Romanian who hated Russians, its what she would talk about, while I on the other hand always defended them. Maybe because Romanian is Latin culture?
Sasha 2 | 1,083
9 Oct 2014 #654
Russia is not European culture

Sadly I agree. Nowadays it is not.

The term Slavic culture is as meaningless

I beg to differ!

youtube.com/watch?v=zY1MVQeeStY
Paulina 10 | 1,728
9 Oct 2014 #655
I knew a Romanian who hated Russians, its what she would talk about, while I on the other hand always defended them. Maybe because Romanian is Latin culture?

Szalawa, are you serious... lol Yes, of course, Latin people simply hate non-Latin people by default just for being non-Latin ;)
It didn't cross your mind that some ill feeling may have something to do with history and present-day relations?
If it didn't then maybe you should educate yourself:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania#Communism

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romania%E2%80%93Russia_relations
Szalawa 3 | 248
10 Oct 2014 #656
No, she was one of those racist white power type people, She told me Germany has the right to take away Silesia, Pomerania and Prussia from Poland. Anything Slavic was seen as inferior. We are not friends anymore. Last time I checked Romanians are one of the most disliked people in Poland, even more disliked then Russians. There must be a reason for this.

I should add I don't want to be against Romanians, many I have met were decent people.
call1n 2 | 138
10 Oct 2014 #657
Hitler and Stalin both claimed Poland to be theirs. It is a pity, that the USA and the UK, never said anything to appose either of them on this matter. Stalin and Hitler also both said the Baltic states were theirs.

Roosevelt visited Stalin even after he knew about the Ukrainian Genocide in the 30's and said nothing about it or the above matter.

It reminds me of present day Ukraine, present day Russia does not want to acknowledge Soviet crimes, and the EU UK and USA do not want to admit their land grab for Ukraine as well.

No one really wants an independent Ukraine because then they would say to the world why their holocaust was ignored for so long.
Szalawa 3 | 248
10 Oct 2014 #658
hat the USA and the UK, never said anything to appose either of them on this matter

Perhaps your not aware those two countries are just as criminal or even more so when it comes to historic events of mass murder, enslavement and genocide.

the EU UK and USA do not want to admit their land grab for Ukraine as well.

They have no interest in those people, only when they migrate to work as a cog in their systems is when they care. Their policy is exploit the resources, ditch the country, have immigrants flock to their country for "economic opportunity" repeat process until no resources left to exploit and the poor starve off while the rich become god like. Great success.

Russia feels that it is protecting Russians from west as they want to claim their own people.
Paulina 10 | 1,728
10 Oct 2014 #659
No, she was one of those racist white power type people,

Then why were you writing that it's "maybe because Romanian is Latin culture", if you knew she was like that? There are "those racist white power type people" in every white country, including Poland.

We are not friends anymore.

What do you mean by that? You and that woman or Poles and Romanians?

Last time I checked Romanians are one of the most disliked people in Poland, even more disliked then Russians. There must be a reason for this.

Well, yes, of course there's a reason for this lol There's usually a reason for everything in this world.
Here you have a general information concerning why Poles dislike or like certain nations:
cbos.pl/SPISKOM.POL/2014/K_020_14.PDF

And here in more detail about why Poles (of course not all of them) dislike Romanians:

national-geographic.pl/uzytkownik/publikacje/pokaz/slawekol/dlaczego-polacy-nie-lubia-rumunow/

There is something absurd in the fact that the nation that feeds - how rare that - great sympathy for us, it is extremely rejected by the Poles. Why, because - in contrast to other nations disliked by us - it's hard to watch for any reason, real or imagined? Stereotype in the minds of the Romanian average Joe is very unfavorable. Speaking learning, mutual stereotyping of both nations: Poles and Romanians determined primarily by the memory of the communist era and the rapid social and political changes that have occurred in both countries. Romanian contemporary stereotype in Poland amounted to not under the influence of contacts with Romanians, but with the Roma / Gypsies, who arrive in this country, which changed the way of thinking about Romania in Poland. The fact that relatively recently, Poland and Romania had a common border has been obliterated in the collective memory of the two societies.

wiadomosci.wp.pl/kat,1010249,title,Rumuni-okazali-sie-duzo-lepsi-od-Polakow,wid,14914243,wiadomosc.html?ticaid=113996

We don't like Romanians - it's a fact. And we do not like them because they know little about them. For us, it still beggars and gypsies. Meanwhile, the "youngest" members of the EU proved to be a nation of hardworking, nice and well organized. In Italy more often displace us from the competition, in which, until recently, worked mainly Poles and became the largest and most influential exile community in the country.

In case of Romanians Polish antipathy isn't Romanians' fault. Romania never did anything bad to Poland (Romania didn't even recognise the partitions of Poland). This antipathy stems from misconceptions, stereotypes and prejudices. And those stem from the fact that during the 90's (and maybe later too) Poles were mixing up Romanians with the Roma people coming from Romania to Poland. Because of this confusion the very word "Rumun" (Romanian) was at that time almost a synonym of someone very poor, not very clean, looking worse for wear, begging both passively and actively (and sometimes rather aggressively), stealing, forcing little children to beg. Also, Poles knew and still know pretty much nothing about Romania, the only thing they associate it with is Gypsies, poverty, count Dracula, Ceaușescu and those who'll read an odd article in a newspaper maybe also with corruption.

The attitude toward Romanians did improve though over some years. In 1993 66% of Poles disliked Romanians and only 9% liked them. In 2014 45% dislikes them and 21% likes them.

You're right, more Poles dislike Romanians (45%) than Russians (42%). Although it can change still, since this poll was made in February and Russia managed to do a lot since then...

Russia feels that it is protecting Russians from west as they want to claim their own people.

Russia was justifying in the same way (protecting minorities) it's land grabs when it partitioned Poland together with Prussia and Austria and the occupation of then Polish territories by the Soviet Union when it partitioned Poland together with the Nazis. I have an impression that Russia always says what Russians and others want to hear when it's about to do something downright Machiavellian, tbh.

Oh, sorry, I'll give the links one more time (there should be more time for editing posts):

There is something absurd in the fact that the nation that feeds - how rare that - great sympathy for us , it is extremely rejected by the Poles . Why , because - in contrast to other nations disliked by us - it's hard to watch for any reason , real or imagined?

Romanian stereotype in the minds of average Joe is very unfavorable. Speaking learning , mutual stereotyping of both nations : Poles and Romanians determined primarily by the memory of the communist era and the rapid social and political changes that have occurred in both countries. Romanian contemporary stereotype in Poland amounted to not under the influence of contacts with Romanians , but with the Roma / Gypsies , who arrive in this country , which changed the way of thinking about Romania in Poland.

Btw, those translations under the links in my previous post aren't done by me and weren't posted by me o_O

Mods, I gave the gist of those articles in my previous post so Google translations weren't really necessary, I think ;)

Mods know better, relax:) btw. people can use google too so there's no need to post more than 1 article on the same topic.. thanks.
Szalawa 3 | 248
11 Oct 2014 #660
Then why were you writing that it's "maybe because Romanian is Latin culture", if you knew she was like that?

To imply the lack of interest in Slavic related things as opposed to gravitating around other Latin nations such as Spain.

There are "those racist white power type people" in every white country, including Poland.

I know, I realize stupid is stupid regardless of what country they are from.

You and that woman

I meant this one.
I can't speak for entire nations, just my experiences.

Because of this confusion the very word "Rumun" (Romanian) ...

I can go on talking about Romania, History, culture, language, I really don't mind.

Romania never did anything bad to Poland

This statement is false. Romanians did invade Poland in the 'Deluge' with Sweden, One of Poland's most bloody conflicts, in which Romanian principalities declared war on Poland for no apparent reason despite it being against their Ottoman masters wishes, in which the Ottomans punished them later for. However I do acknowledge Moldova being historically tied to Poland (more or less half of Moldova is located in Romania). there were a few interesting bits of history but I don't wan't to bring them up as this is not a thread about Romania and Poles. But it can make an interesting thread.


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