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POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country?


Paulina 10 | 1,693
2 Jan 2013 #691
As i already said if one would name one region of Europe where a language of the Slavic family is spoken it would be Eastern Europe

Not only Eastern Europe:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples

The Slavic people are an Indo-European ethnic-linguistic group living in Central Europe, Eastern Europe, Southeast Europe, North Asia and Central Asia, who speak the Indo-European Slavic languages

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Slavic_europe.svg

since geographically it makes the most sense.

What do you mean? To you Slavic = The East? And any country which isn't Slavic isn't Eastern Europe?

Oh come on, i will certainly not debate if Russian is a Slavic language.

Erm... I won't either, that's not why I've put this quote on here o_O I've quoted this fragment because in the article on Russian language Wiki again calls Polish Central European language.

I will go into the details of your questions tomorrow.

OK.
berni23 7 | 379
2 Jan 2013 #692
Erm... I won't either, that's not why I've put this quote on here

Oops, i missed the bolded part. You see im really tired.
Vlad123 7 | 204
2 Jan 2013 #693
In Soviet Great encyclopedia Poland is reffered as part of Central Europe.
Even though there is no exact difinition of Cental Europe itself.
Probably Poles didn`t want to be in Eastern Europe even under communism.
But personally I feel that term ``Central Europe`` is a bit pretentious and rather
politically than geographically motivated.So for seriuos person there should no
Central Europe unless he wants to use it in present political sense.From what
I know georaphically and even culturally Poland is rather Eastern Europe.
Czech republic is a bit different thing, but still...
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,954
2 Jan 2013 #694
British people know very little about countries East of Germany :)

that's rather a wild generalisation isn't it....
kind of dismissing all educated or knowledgeable british people in one fell swoop....?
Vlad123 7 | 204
2 Jan 2013 #695
An eloquent response.

Strange map.I never heard of UK or Ireland as part of norther Europe.
I thought that only Scandinavian countries fall in this category.Neither
Baltic States.They are usually part of Eastern Europe.Former Yugoslavia as well.



zetigrek
2 Jan 2013 #696
Nothing to do with your problems, its a cultural fact.

What kind of problems do you suggest I have? I can't understand you. Do you mean that being a gay is a problem for you? If so, you are full of prejudice, berni. Shame on you.

For the record, no, I'm neither gay nor lesbian and such insinuations about strangers make you look tad immature; I have nothing against gay, and don't mind gay marriage, actually I'm indifferent to that problem.

So when Poland will stop to be "still" Eastern and change it's geographical placement? If it's not gay marriage then what? Abortion? Atheisation? Other "progressive" ideas?

Scientists tend to do that.

What kind of scientists and what for?

I meant the whole ensemble. You still havent answered the question.

Neither west nor east. Just a language.

Paulina

It's no use to explain to him all those intricacies. The guy is full of self-complex about his ancestry. It's thinly veiled chauvinism in this case.

Other people call Poles Eastern Europeans because that's what is widely accepted in their countries. And that's fine for me.
But there is no reason for a Pole to not see the obvious things about cultural differences between Poles and other Slavic nations (and among each of those nations too).

that's rather a wild generalisation isn't it....kind of dismissing all educated or knowledgeable british people in one fell swoop....?

The replies I got in one of my threads (namely "Why do people think that Poles are culturally isolated?") show otherwise.
And that's fine too. I don't feel the need to know much things about all countries around the world, why others should?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
2 Jan 2013 #697
No, i meant the political division after WW2.

OK so Germany is in Eastern Europe too ?

If so, you are full of prejudice, berni. Shame on you.

True.
David_18 68 | 982
2 Jan 2013 #698
@berni23

If you still believe Poland is a eastern european country after this information then there is no hope for you ;)



Central Europe as a region connected to the Western civilisation for a very long time, including countries like the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Holy Roman Empire, later German Empire and the Habsburg Monarchy, the Kingdom of Hungary and Bohemia. Central Europe understood in this way borders on Russia and the South-Eastern Europe, but the exact frontier of the region is difficult to determine.
jon357 66 | 17,032
2 Jan 2013 #699
including countries like

Amazing really that those on this thread who are so keen to move a bit of Eastern Europe into Central Europe generally don't actually live here. Some don"t even have any genuine connection with the place, just relatives who left.

Those of us who do live here are more grounded in the reality of an Eastern European culture, traditions, cuisine etc.
gumishu 11 | 5,603
2 Jan 2013 #700
Amazing really that those on this thread who are so keen to move a bit of Eastern Europe into Central Europe generally don't actually live here. Some don"t even have any genuine connection with the place, just relatives who left

jon - is Germany central or western Europe ?
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,954
2 Jan 2013 #701
And that's fine too. I don't feel the need to know much things about all countries around the world, why others should?

oh right so a couple of replies on a forum enables the dismissal of all british people...
purely on a statistical level that is bonkers.
jon357 66 | 17,032
2 Jan 2013 #702
Now that's a good question. It certainly depends a lot on how you'd define either. I'd say though that Germany (East and West Germany, not including Austria or the former Eastern territories) is a bit too big to pigeonhole, as is Poland. In Germany's case there's the relationship with Austria and the concept of MittelEuropa which isn't all that it seems. Is Westphalia or the Saarland the same as Schwabia or East Prussia?

I suspect the desire of some posters here to pretend that Poland isn't Eastern European at all is made up of 25% Russophobia, 25% Cultural Cringe, 25% ignorance and/or lack of perspective on Eastern and Central Europe and 25% cluelessness.
zetigrek
2 Jan 2013 #703
oh right so a couple of replies on a forum enables the dismissal of all british people...purely on a statistical level that is bonkers.

I'm not one of those people who think that Poland is the centre of the universe and I really don't mind foreigners not knowing about Poland much. I don't imply that British are uneducated because of that. I don't know much about Moldavia for instance.

Those of us who do live here are more grounded in the reality of an Eastern European culture, traditions, cuisine etc.

Are you kidding?
No one in Poland says "Eastern Europe" when refering to Poland. Even when regarding former communistic countries the used term is Central-Eastern Europe (Europa środkowo-wschodnia). Poles never felt to be the part of Eastern Europe. Why have been so, was already explained (the term is understood differently in Poland).

Take it for granted I live in Poland whole my life.

I suspect the desire of some posters here to pretend that Poland isn't Eastern European at all is made up of 25% Russophobia, 25% Cultural Cringe, 25% ignorance and/or lack of perspective on Eastern and Central Europe and 25% cluelessness.

Said by an Englishman - an expert of everything Polish. I for one like Russians.
jon357 66 | 17,032
2 Jan 2013 #704
the part of Eastern Europe.

Thus ignoring a long heritage whether political, cultural, linguistic or culinary.
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,954
2 Jan 2013 #705
I don't imply that British are uneducated because of that. I don't know much about Moldavia for instance.

actually zeti it wasn't really you that said it it was paulina
zetigrek
2 Jan 2013 #706
Thus ignoring a long heritage whether political, cultural, linguistic or culinary.

Do you claim to know better who Poles are and what's their culture than Poles themselves? That's bold.
Watch some Polish tv you will notice no one says Eastern Europe. Eastern Europe begins with Ukraine and Belarus.
gumishu 11 | 5,603
2 Jan 2013 #707
East Prussia?

East Prussia is no longer Germany jon :P
berni23 7 | 379
2 Jan 2013 #708
What kind of problems do you suggest I have? I can't understand you.

Poland is and was culturally much closer to its eastern neighbors then its western

Why do you thinks so? Bacause of gay marriage?

Your absolutely unrelated post suggest a number of problems.

What kind of scientists and what for?

Linguists, ethnologists e.g. do foolishly such outrageous things.

So when Poland will stop to be "still" Eastern and change it's geographical placement?

If you still believe Poland is a eastern european country after this information then there is no hope for you ;)

OK so Germany is in Eastern Europe too ?

I suggest you read my initial statement:

Ethnically, linguistically and culturally Poland is still Eastern Europe.

Vlad123 7 | 204
2 Jan 2013 #709
But there is no reason for a Pole to not see the obvious things about cultural differences between Poles and other Slavic nations (and among each of those nations too).

Interesting.Could you describe this cultural difference in detail?What do you meen exacly as cultural?
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
2 Jan 2013 #710
I suspect the desire of some posters here to pretend that Poland isn't Eastern European at all is made up of 25% Russophobia, 25% Cultural Cringe, 25% ignorance and/or lack of perspective on Eastern and Central Europe and 25% cluelessness.

Mmm fascinating analysis... how about adding a bit of fekcin geography ?

Linguists, ethnologists e.g. do foolishly such outrageous things.

Hmm... so what's an "Eastern European" culture or "Eastern European" langguage ?

I suggest you read my initial statement:

I did. You say Poland is in Eastern Europe due to post WW2 politics.
zetigrek
2 Jan 2013 #711
Berni23, your initial post was:

Ethnically, linguistically and culturally Poland is still Eastern Europe. ;)

So I ask you when Poland will become Western Europe. Is this question difficult to comprehend?
berni23 7 | 379
2 Jan 2013 #712
So I ask you when Poland will become Western Europe.

Western Europe? Poland seems to move further west with each post.
Never. Unless Europe adepts Esperanto as far language goes.

Hmm... so what's an "Eastern European" culture or "Eastern European" langguage ?

The Western Salvic language family is.

I did. You say Poland is in Eastern Europe due to post WW2 politics.

Well then you didnt understand it.

I am done repeating myself.
zetigrek
2 Jan 2013 #713
Interesting.Could you describe this cultural difference in detail?

Christmas behind us, so the obvious ones:

Father Frost v Święty Mikołaj.
Catholicism-related traditions v Eastern Orthodox-related traditions.
Cyrilic script v Latin script.

Those who says we share some amount of dishes - that's true. We share some with Germans too e.g. saurkraut.

Western Europe? Poland seems to move further west with each post.

Oh, now we see the hidden agenda reveiled!
As I said complex-ridden Pole.
Vlad123 7 | 204
2 Jan 2013 #714
But there is no reason for a Pole to not see the obvious things about cultural differences between Poles and other Slavic nations (and among each of those nations too).

Interesting.Could you describe this cultural difference in detail?What do you meen exacly as cultural?
For example consumption of pure alcohol per capita in Poland (13.25 liters/person/year) is comparable to that of Ukraine
(15.60) and Russia (15.76) and Czech republic is even higher (16.45).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption

Polish GDP per capita both nominal and PPP is similar to that of Russia.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)_per_capita
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
2 Jan 2013 #715
For example consumption of pure alcohol per capita in Poland (13.25 liters/person/year) is comparable to that of Ukraine
(15.60) and Russia (15.76)

And Nigeria...

Polish GDP per capita both nominal and PPP is similar to that of Russia.

And Brazil...
berni23 7 | 379
2 Jan 2013 #716
Oh, now we see the hidden agenda reveiled!

LOL. You posted that nonsense.
OMFG, some poeple are really thick.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163
2 Jan 2013 #717
The Western Salvic language family is.

No, it isn't.

Well then you didnt understand it.

OK I found the initial, initial post :))

Ethnically, linguistically and culturally Poland is still Eastern Europe. ;)

OK, so dear sir please explain what's an "Eastern European" ethnicity, language and culture ! I hope to hear soon from you !!1
zetigrek
2 Jan 2013 #718
LOL. You posted that nonsense.

I've noticed in many of your posts that you accuse Poles of being backward in let's call ideological terms (you didn't say it straight forward but you implied it many times). I'm not a racist, I'm not a homophobe, I'm not a religious person, yet probably for you all those qualities attributes to Poles. So my question and way I understood your initial post are valid.

Btw. if you wanted to say that regardless what we say Poland is Eastern Europe then you shouldn't use word "still" to avoid of any ambiguity.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,277
2 Jan 2013 #719
The entire discussion is useless and reflects the usual typical prejudices of the Western Europeans versus Eastern Europeans which would in other circumstances be hidden under the convenient "political correctness" attitude. The term "Central Europe" doesn't denote anything better or anything worse than "Eastern Europe", in the same way as "Western Europe" doesn't denote anything better or worse than "Central Europe". "Western" or "Central" or "Eastern" Europe are strictly geographical terms which here are assigned assessing political meanings by people who would otherwise claim they are impartial. In true fact, they tend to follow the attitude of the notorious hudsonhicks and the like with the difference that hudsonhics feels free to articulate his prejudices openly and without a mask, while they usually prefer to hide them under the coat of political corectness they wear for the purpose of seeming better, nicer and more attractive to anyone who wants to believe them.
berni23 7 | 379
2 Jan 2013 #720
As i already said if one would name one region of Europe where a language of the Slavic family is spoken it would be Eastern Europe, since geographically it makes the most sense.

Since you read everything you really seem to have problems with comprehension.

I've noticed in many of your posts that you accuse Poles of being backward in let's call ideological terms (you didn't say it straight forward but you implied it many times).

I call racist, ultranationalists and ahters of anything different when i see it. It doesnt matter if they are Polish, German or Martian.

I'm not a homophobe

I have nothing against gay, and don't mind gay marriage, actually I'm indifferent to that problem.

Freudian slip?


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