POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country?

There's something in that, however the Central Europe that some people wish Poland was part of is the old Mitteleuropa, bits of Germany, bits of The Empire etc - you can still find it in Prague, Vienna, even Berlin, however mostly only ghosts remain.


So you're still pretending you think Polish food isn't firmly within the Eastern European tradition?

there is a bunch of traditional polish dishes, some of them are tipical slavic and some not, just get over it....


Geography

The German academic Ständiger Ausschuss für geographische Namen (Permanent Committee on Geographical Names) at the Federal Agency for Cartography and Geodesy refers to a territory roughly bounded by the river Rhine in the west, the Bug in the east, the North Sea and the Baltic coast in the north, as well as the Alps and the Adriatic Sea in the south. The area is covered by the modern states of:

Austria
Croatia
Czech Republic
Germany
Hungary
Liechtenstein
Poland
Slovakia
Slovenia
Switzerland

And some no doubt quite exotic. The everyday stuff is firmly in the Eastern European tradition.

Just get over it.


The 'Eastern Territories' of Germany, you mean?

Mittleeuropa didn't extend further into Poland than the Austrian zabór. Ever. And even then, only the cities.

It's really amusing how terribly wrong you are

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_cuisine


No, I meant mentioned previously by you "mitteleuropa", you get lost very easly...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitteleuropa

Maybe you should try harder. Perhaps you don't ever eat pierogi, kasza, gołąbki, kielbasa, cabbage soup, and countless other things, or even drink vodka? Perhaps not.

"щи да каша - пища наша"


You do seem very very confused about the concept of Mittleuropa. I suspect you actually half believe that Poland isn't in Eastern Europe. That or trying to troll.

By the way, your 'use' of wikipedia is somewhat selective.
Eastern Europe

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Statistics_Division

I can assure you that I am not.


From Polish food I usualy eat schabowy and bigos and like most Poles I'm a beer drinker.

You are, alas, mistaken.


Not a very varied diet.


Not 'Central European' wines?

whatever


perhaps


No, I'm not fan of any wines

An eloquent response.

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sure: Poland and European regions

I don't feel offended :) There's nothing offensive about being Eastern European.
Although I guess it would be probably more precise to call it Central European language as Poland is located in Central Europe:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe
britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/466681/Poland

And Polish is West Slavic language:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language
britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/467443/Polish-language

But impressive post altogether, kcharlie :)

this is being oversensitive - and it implies that Eastern Europeans are somehow inferior

What is wrong with being Eastern European?
Ethnically, linguistically and culturally Poland is still Eastern Europe. ;)

still? what does "still" mean? Are you creating some fake divisions?

Berni your're not the one to judge whether slavic languages belongs to east or west, it's a silly conception of yours. Also culturally I don't feel very kin to Russians or Ukrainians or anyone else. Only a foreigner who could make such statement, when I thought your a Pole living in Germany.

Actually, linguistically and culturally Poland never was Eastern European. It seems you're confused by the Cold War division of Europe. I guess that's why you wrote "still" :)

FWIW the vast majority of Britons I know of consider Poland "eastern Europe", for whatever reason. I can't think of one who would know it is in fact mostly central Europe.

I am not surprised, British people know very little about countries East of Germany :)
Perhaps this is the place to get them educated a bit? ;) If they are willing, that is...

That's why I don't mind bein called like that but when someone makes some twisted theories on that, I just can't handle it. It's such a load of rubbish, and thinly veiled chauvinism...

Are you claiming Slavic is a western language?


And that didnt change just because its a new year.


Again although cartographically correct, Poland is and was culturally much closer to its eastern neighbors then its western and if one would divide Europe into regions based on that Poland would belong to Eastern Europe.


I was indeed hinting at that, but specifically didnt mention recent political divisions.

Yet it's different enough to not be considered Eastern European. Poland is neither West nor East. It's in between, not only geographically.


Yes, an ignorant would that, I imagine ;)


You see, there you go.


What "recent political divisions"? You mean Poland being in the EU?

Why do you thinks so? Bacause of gay marriage?


If. What for divide it?


And you feel superior because of living in Germany. How nice of you. Another complex ridden Pole.


There is no such language like "Slavic"


What do you mean?

Nothing to do with your problems, its a cultural fact.


Please suggest your theory of Inbetween Europe to linguists and ethnologists then.



Scientists tend to do that.


I meant the whole ensemble. You still havent answered the question.



No, i meant the political division after WW2.

Actually, even this statement isn't quite correct, I think... As far as spoken language and ethnicity are concerned we're closer to Slavs in the East than Romance and Germanic nations in the West, North and South or Hungarians and Greeks.

However, we share the same alphabet (Latin) and religion (Catholic) with the West, as opposed to Eastern Slavs whose alphabet (Cyrillic script) and religion (Orthodox Christianity) stem from the Byzantine culture, not the Latin one.

You've heard about the Great Schism?:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism

Take a look at Polish architecture, for example. It always embraced Western styles while adding some minor local details. There was no Gothic style in Russia, for example. Russia didn't embrace the dramatic style of Baroque architecture either, because why would it do that? There was no Counter-Reformation there.

Polish church:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kosciol_mariacki_krakow.jpg
Russian church:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Moscow_July_2011-4a.jpg

And where would you put the poor Hungarians? ;) They're not Slavic, so...?


No that "recent", is it?
And not correct anymore, either. If the Cold War division put Poland in the minds of Westerners in Eastern Europe (or rather outside of Europe, as at the time of joining the EU we were told by the Western media, that we were coming back to EUROPE, as if the EU was Europe lol :)))) then where are we now? Politically we're in the EU. So what does it make us? lol (no that I care, to be honest)

What does religion, architecture or the political system have to do with the language and ethnicity?

Since we are quoting wiki:


Depends what you compare it to.

Alphabet, religion, art - it's something of which culture consists of. In this case Latin vs Byzantine.


Well, you were hinting at the political division after WW2, weren't you? So maybe you'll explain it to me?


Wait a minute, so you divide Europe into the East and the West solely on the basis of language and ethnicity? o_O
If so, then where do you put Hungary?


Well, I see that in one article Wiki puts Poland in Central Europe and in another in Eastern (or, at least, the West Slavic languages) :)

OK then, Sorbian is a West Slavic language - does it make Eastern Germany... Eastern Europe?


True, but Poland joining the EU is definitely more recent than Poland being on "the wrong side of the Iron Curtain" :)

We could go into details of the Polish Commonwealth, Polish lands in the east etc., but its late, im tired and i will take that:

.




I dont know whats not to understand. I was stating that i dont mean the political term of Eastern Europe but



You are drifting off again.

We could, but that was only a part of Polish history - Poland is around 1000 years old. And those lands in the East aren't "Polish" anymore anyway.


And you'll ingore the rest of the sentence? :):


The division between the East and the West came into being long ago, at the time of the East-West Schism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism


OK, sorry, I've misunderstood.


No, I'm not, actually. You're not answering my questions.
I've asked where would you put Hungary?
Or Romania? Or Estonia? Lithuania? Latvia?

Ethnically, linguistically and culturally - what are those countries? After all, ethnically and linguistically Poles have pretty much nothing to do with them. So?

What do other countries have to do with your challenge of me saying:


Im sure it would make an interesting discussion, but another day.

LOL

I'm trying to understand why do you put Poland "ethnically, linguistically and culturally" in Eastern Europe :)

OK, I'll ask a very simple question then: which countries would you put in Eastern Europe? Poland and...?


I'll be waiting patiently then :)

And Wiki again: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language

Language:

As i already said if one would name one region of Europe where a language of the Slavic family is spoken it would be Eastern Europe, since geographically it makes the most sense.

I will go into the details of your questions tomorrow. Good night.


Oh come on, i will certainly not debate if Russian is a Slavic language.