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POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country?


sascha 1 | 826
22 Sep 2011 #541
and I see Poland in EU + NATO if that ain't a "club" then what is it? :)

yes, maybe, but the history in modern times is that what matters NOW to make a difference. keyword: warschauer pakt ;)

As if media were telling the truth now eh? enjoy your reality !

sorry iron, they are not??? ;)
KingAthelstan 9 | 142
1 Oct 2011 #542
even the pro immigration pc left wing guardian refers to you as Eastern Europeans.

so yes you are in Eastern Europe get over it.

PS my wife is from Serbia and she says she is from Eastern Europe.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
1 Oct 2011 #543
pc left wing guardian

I wouldn't call it either of those things, but what it isn't is obsessed with immigration.

PS my wife is from Serbia and she says she is from Eastern Europe.

Is she called Crow? Anyway, Serbia isn't Poland.
hythorn 3 | 580
1 Oct 2011 #544
would you say that perhaps Serbia might be to the East of Poland?

Serbs generally aligned themselves to Russia which is a very eastern european country
perhaps this explains why you think that Poland can be lumped in with Serbia as an eastern european country as
both countries are east of Yeovil
KingAthelstan 9 | 142
1 Oct 2011 #545
That is how the mainstream media and the UN, regard you as such. if you asked people on the street here in England than 9/10 people will tell you Poland is in Eastern Europe.

Yes that's right the United Nations
unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49regin.htm#europe
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
1 Oct 2011 #546
people on the street

Quite. On the street. Have you ever actually been to Poland? What is your particular interest in the country and/or its people?
hythorn 3 | 580
1 Oct 2011 #547
Yes that's right the United Nations

where is the central european classification?

there does not seem to be one

on an entirely different subject, would I be right in thinking that you are a bit of a Nazi?
KingAthelstan 9 | 142
1 Oct 2011 #548
you are a bit of a Nazi?

what an offensive assumption. My grandfather was a communist who fought in Spain who I am proud of. My other grandfather died in Greece fighting the Nazis.

What an offensive thing to say.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
1 Oct 2011 #549
What an offensive thing to say.

So again, what is your interest in Poland?
sascha 1 | 826
2 Oct 2011 #550
PS my wife is from Serbia and she says she is from Eastern Europe.

:) they have beautiful women there....

perhaps this explains why you think that Poland can be lumped in with Serbia as an eastern european country as
both countries are east of Yeovil

the definition where poland is located is now POLITIC and NOT geographic. if f.e. germany and france are geographically central europe then yes, poland is eastern europe. since poland is now member of the eu it sees itself as western eruope. furthermore the 40+ years in the wp gave the mark of an eastern country. that when the cold war was on and europe devided in east, wp, bad and west, nato, good ;)

would I be right in thinking that you are a bit of a Nazi?

crap.

What an offensive thing to say.

he seems to be a troll.
calcedonia 4 | 67
2 Oct 2011 #551
I dont know poland is central or eastern european country, but I know and Im sure poland is realy good civilized country, Congratulations them for they established culture and civilization society like that. BRAVO.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
2 Oct 2011 #553
That's a first, Austria being called Eastern Europe. I'm sure the Viennese would love to hear that they live in an Eastern European capital!
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
2 Oct 2011 #554
9/10 people will tell you Poland is in Eastern Europe.

Which doesn't say much about the collective intelligence of 9/10 of the population(:

That's a first, Austria being called Eastern Europe. I'm sure the Viennese would love to hear that they live in an Eastern European capital!

Very funny indeed, the Swedes would be quite surprised as would the Finns.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
2 Oct 2011 #555
So for all these "central" proponents, be honest, have you ever referrred to or considered Poland as Eastern Europe?
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
2 Oct 2011 #556
Geographically, Poland is in central Europe. So in the 'physical-map' sense, it is central European.

Historically, Poland has been exposed to both East European and West European influences thus it is a center-point when looking for the 'average' of influences. Of course Sokrates and Crow may have something to say about that.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
2 Oct 2011 #557
have you ever referrred to or considered Poland as Eastern Europe?

Not in the broader historical context. How could i classify a country with Europe's first modern constitution (3rd of May) and and its first ministry of education (both based on the values and ideas of the enlightenment) as Eastern, not that there is anything wrong with the east-after all Byzantium (Europe's most progressive Empire for quite a long period) was located in the east, as was the ancient Civilization of China etc.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
2 Oct 2011 #558
OK Hague I understand but this is how I see it.

For my sins, Poland has been (and possibly always will be) an Eastern European country. Simply because, from my perspective it's "over there", on the fringes, beyond etc. Being a neighbour of obviously Eastern European countries helps.

As I have said, if I thought for a minute that this term was offensive to Polish people I would never use it.

BUT and it's a big but, and I've said before, so many Poles refer to "the west" as some disparaging otherness, with the attendent usual bullsh1t opinion of decadence, immorality, consumerism and plastic food etc etc

"Oh no, but we're not Eastern European either - we are central European" as if that in itself implied some commonality of mentality, culture etc.

Let's assume for a minute that there is an agreed geographical "central Europe" - which of these countries simultaneously rejects association with both "the west" and "the east" ??

Exactly.

My point being Poles can't have it both ways.

Much as many would like to think, Poland is not this unique misunderstood paradise that defies definition.

I have no problem with Central Europe as a term but many Poles simply need to get a grip. They are not special.
KingAthelstan 9 | 142
2 Oct 2011 #559
Excluding, Russia you are still in Eastern Europe. go write to the UN and complain. the UN who are the highest authority in the land, classes Poland as Eastern Europe.who
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
2 Oct 2011 #560
For my sins, Poland has been (and possibly always will be) an Eastern European country. Simply because, from my perspective it's "over there", on the fringes, beyond etc. Being a neighbour of obviously Eastern European countries helps.

As I have said, if I thought for a minute that this term was offensive to Polish people I would never use it.

I think that you are getting a bit confused by trying to tie up the geographical concept with the political one. Geographically speaking , although it is not anymore, it used to be an East European country. This was the result of Poles controlling large swathes of eastern land-namely the Ukraine and Belarus, countries which were in effect colonies in all but name, were the gentry and the Ruling classes were Polish and the peasantry was predominantly Ruthenian

Politically speaking it is more "western" than some of the countries in the "west", That's why in practiced early forms of democracy and rejected the divine right of kings centuries before some countries in the west. And that is why historically it sometimes defined its mission as bringing Catholicism into eastern Orthodox lands, this is why you now have a third religion called the Unites. In my opinion if you don't understand these two concepts, then you don't really understand Polish history.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
2 Oct 2011 #561
It doesn't matter what regional classification Poland has. It's just the idea of getting it right.

It cannot be disputed that geographically Poland is centrally located.
As to the fact that there is confusion as to whether Poland is "Eastern" or "Western", that sort of identity ambivalence alone makes it "Central". So Poland meets the requirements in both respects.
calcedonia 4 | 67
2 Oct 2011 #562
Sory but I realy dont understand whats diffrents between if central or eastern? İf people call eastern europan country what will happen I realy dont understand,I think most polite and civilized country its not importent if poland will be more west but not be polite and no civilized,crime,racism,is it good? Many polish went western for work they are more difrent than polish more civilization? I never been more west but I dont have any idea how they are but I think all european people and culture almost similar,if country near to east cant be civilized? Ofcourse they can do I know polish history and proud history clean than many western countries, you just fight for your land with honor, you never go other continental and not civilized poor indians made them slave. Your people respect even they enemy in war. I dont know I read like that,but in Turkey also some people try to say no no we are european hahah its so funny why they must to prove we are european no I think not,I can say Istanbul was European capitol in history now also biggest economy and modern city but its not proof we are european,and many european nations lived in Turkey before than turks and turkish came and mixed with europeans,many of balkans,greece,albania,italy,kafkasia,russia,armenia, but it does it mean we are europeans, in bizantion empire times many viking settle down in istanbul,and many celtic people also moved anatolia they are pure european we have them blood also we mixed nation but we cant say we are european, Im not embarrassment to say Im asian,because I dont belive nationalism just belive people if you take some japanese baby and grown up in poland he takes all polish cultures and you cant call him japanese because he become polish, if take some spanish baby to china and grown up with chinese family and school and culture he is chinese after that. İf some body go dna test in turkey and test result show this guy has %75 european gene this person is not european. Usa has actor Charles Bronson he was tatar blood and he look like but he is american you cant say he is tatar asian,even he never knows about tatar cultures and rules,anyway sory for long write but if people say eastern europa noting is wrong I think people is people,just good and bad.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
2 Oct 2011 #563
And further to my comments above, if you consult some of the most eminent scholars on this very issue, the divide between east and west, you will find that they place Poland politically speaking in the west. Feel free to consult the no1. best seller "The clash of civilizations"- by Samuel P. Huntington. or "After Tamerlane"- by John Darwin. Both these scholars are eminent in their field and both of them have placed Poland firmly in the "western sphere". So if you disagree, my advice to you is get a PHD, write a few Best Sellers, and then maybe just maybe i will take you seriously. Until then it's just empty rhetoric fuelled by personal agenda, as far as I am concerned.
Sidliste_Chodov 1 | 441
2 Oct 2011 #564
PS my wife is from Serbia and she says she is from Eastern Europe.

You also said that your children were "half Welsh and half English" so what's with the "Serbian wife" crap?

You hate eastern Europeans and probably all Slavs as well, so why on earth would you marry a Serb?
Teffle 22 | 1,321
2 Oct 2011 #565
and then maybe just maybe i will take you seriously

If you are directing this at me, I certainly don't need you to take me seriously.

Until then it's just empty rhetoric fuelled by personal agenda,

Empty rhetoric?? A bit dramatic.

I have no personal agenda & have explained that I have no issue with the central term. Some Poles just need to make their minds up, that's all.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
3 Oct 2011 #566
If you are directing this at me, I certainly don't need you to take me seriously.

I do take you seriously, and no the comments were not directed at you-only the first post about geography vs history and politics bit.

Empty rhetoric?? A bit dramatic.

I have no personal agenda & have explained that I have no issue with the central term. Some Poles just need to make their minds up, that's all.

I didn't imply that you did, though some other people on this thread certainly do. and yes a lot concentration of style at the expense of substance of this thread, that's for sure.

Still all my comments stand.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
3 Oct 2011 #567
only the first post about geography vs history and politics bit.

OK fine, but I am not confused about anything. I'm talking about perception more than anything.

Geographically, central is OK with me. Politically, alignment with "the west", fine. Culturally, mentality wise - it's much less clear.
hague1cmaeron 14 | 1,377
3 Oct 2011 #568
Culturally, mentality wise - it's much less clear.

Well that's because there is no such think as one homogeneous "western culture" or mentality, take Italy and the UK for instance, very few similarities. So come to think of it if your post wasn't related to geography or about politics/history, then I fail to understand you. Unless of course you are talking about western materialism, which Poles claim not to share in, but given half a chance would, then it's a slightly different point and not very pertinent to the discussion about east and west.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
3 Oct 2011 #569
Well that's because there is no such think as one homogeneous "western culture" or mentality,

Yes, but many Poles seem to think there is. That's my point.

Unless of course you are talking about western materialism, which Poles claim not to share in, but given half a chance would, then it's a slightly different point

Yes, partly this. Like I said:

My point being Poles can't have it both ways.

then it's a slightly different point

In a way yes, but still relevant I think.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
3 Oct 2011 #570
"My point being Poles can't have it both ways."

i know what you mean.

polish culture is so funny to me. they simply can't make up their minds with anything, like some big huge identity crisis.


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