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POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country?


Ironside 50 | 10,939
21 Sep 2011 #511
how can you compare a country full of people like that to people in western europe?

people like what ? what do you want to say fuzz? than generally people from western countries are somehow better ? what a bull.......
adnar - | 17
21 Sep 2011 #512
the majority of Poland's population right now grew up during communist times?

That is why I wrote "a bit" in my message. We still have a lot of time to change our mentality completely. It is not like we can be Western country from day to day, but comparing to, let's say 15 years ago, we have changed drastically. I would rather say that those who are over 60 years of age cannot adjust to modern times, but these who are over 40 surely can. We speak foreign languages (not only Russian as it was before), we spend more money on things like shopping, entertainment, technology, we go on holidays abroad etc. We are much closer to Western Europeans than you think.

Ok, I am 25, but I see a lot of changes in my parents behaviour, their purchasing power, their hobbies, leisure etc. They are both 52. All has changed rapidly over the past few years.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
21 Sep 2011 #513
Ok, I am 25, but I see a lot of changes in my parents behaviour, their purchasing power, their hobbies, leisure etc. They are both 52. All has changed rapidly over the past few years.

OK you are a disgrace, some ass-hole says - hey you are not western enough (whatever that BS means), and you agree with that ? you plunk,geee...
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
21 Sep 2011 #514
ironside wrote:

what do you want to say fuzz?

uhmmm.....I.......well......cough........I think I like......said exactly what I wanted to say in the sentence before that. did you just not read that part? i think the example i listed is a pretty valid point..........eerrrr...........am I typing?

ironside wrote:

some ass-hole says - hey you are not western enough

who said that?

ironside wrote:

OK you are a disgrace

you're pathetic for saying that dude. a 25 year old kid, calling it as he sees it....and he's somehow a disgrace???
Ironside 50 | 10,939
21 Sep 2011 #515
uhmmm.....I.......well......cough........I think I like......said exactly what I wanted to say in the sentence before that. did you just not read that part? i think the example i listed is a pretty valid point..........eerrrr...........am I typing?

You think ? Don't make me laugh, your problem fuzz is that you don't think.

the majority of Poland's population right now grew up during communist times

gee ....really ...eh ....don't say ....my goodness how we could have overlooked ....err .....no......

and everyone over the age of about 44 has spent more years in communism than in a democratic society

I'm impressed you know your numbers fuzz....Sunday school was good for you......
Statements like that are there to impress, simple, elegant and yet cutting edge is there, that fuzz is somebody eh..
You forget to say whatever it was a quality time for them.

how can you compare a country full of people like that to people in western europe?

Again bulls eye, how can you compare a country to people eh?
Surely you cannot....you are so brilliant fuzz ...thank you .... one question though, do you have same issues with Europe ?

said exactly what I wanted to say in the sentence before that

So what exactly did you say fuzz ?
Palivec - | 380
21 Sep 2011 #516
Wikipedia has a nice article about it: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,954
21 Sep 2011 #517
Poland is in Eastern Europe, Russia is not in Europe or Asia

you see it's because of English people like you that we have a bad reputation for being uneducated.
loc_kanika - | 19
21 Sep 2011 #518
When in doubt always Google :P
checked it here as well! My mini Google! :D
The centre of interest was moved to its eastern part - the countries that have reappeared on the map of Europe: Poland, Hungary and Czechoslovakia
Teffle 22 | 1,321
21 Sep 2011 #519
Ironside overreacted again by saying:

generally people from western countries are somehow better ?

No, as you well know, it's not what he said at all.

Someone said that Polish mentality is more Western than Eastern, and Fuzzy said:

the majority of Poland's population right now grew up during communist times

What's wrong with that?
Ironside 50 | 10,939
21 Sep 2011 #520
Someone said that Polish mentality is more Western than Eastern,

Define western or easter mentality or both and then we can talk.

Ironside overreacted again by saying:

Fuzz is pretending to be such a knowledgeable dude, almost a guru.
Somebody used generalization,he answered with generalization of his own, one which doesn't explain anything.

How can you compare people in Poland with people in France for example ? - with know how!
If you don't know how then do not state your feelings or personal opinion as an objective truth.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
21 Sep 2011 #521
Define western or easter mentality or both and then we can talk.

That's a question for Adnar, who made the claim and Fuzzy who disagreed with it.

Personally I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that there may be a quite different national psyche between those who have lived mostly under communism (like the 44+ mentioned) and those who have never known it.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
21 Sep 2011 #522
That's a question for Adnar, who made the claim and Fuzzy who disagreed with it.

No, that is a question for both of them.

Personally I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that there may be a quite different national psyche between those who have lived mostly under communism (like the 44+ mentioned) and those who have never known it.

You can suggest whatever you like but your suggestion is on a very high level of generalization - be specific, be learned. Do you believe in the age of reason?

Where is your reasoning then?
You make observation which seems to be explaining something but it doesn't; your observation doesn't even scratch surface of the problem.
I can do the same: horse - what horse is like everybody can see!

By the way define - national psyche and while you are on it pry tell in what way the national psyche of Poles changed under communism (or not).
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
21 Sep 2011 #523
two things Teffle: obviously, and thank you.

Teffle wrote:

Personally I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that there may be a quite different national psyche between those who have lived mostly under communism (like the 44+ mentioned) and those who have never known it.

a logical deduction. thanks again.

Ironside's obviously looking for a fight and his recent posts on here speak volumes about the way he is in general.
Teffle 22 | 1,321
21 Sep 2011 #524
OK Ironside, your obfuscation aside, simple question, do you think that over 40 years of communism has had no discernible affect on the attitude and mentality of the people in Poland?

I'm asking what you think now, your opinion, I'm not asking you to prove anything via decades of empirical research.

And I'm not going to be asking you for a definition of "mentality", "Poland", "opinion" ,or anything else for that matter.

It's a simple yes or no answer - it can be qualified if you like but it's still a yes or no answer.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
21 Sep 2011 #525
OK Ironside,

OK Teffle yes. communism had impact on Poles, however not to such degree as you and fuzz posts seems to imply. I would say that WWII was a biggest single experience for Poles, one which shaped Poles in a way that western nations cannot comprehend.

However, in the context of :western - eastern mentality; such simple observation made by fuzz has no use.

Guys, Teffle and fuzz, both of you belief in reason. I thought that there is more to that than simple atheism. I though that you are used to use your reason for everyday issues. Yet, there you are making such simple observation that any Johnny and Harry, rednecks full of Bible's nonsense could have made.

What use is your reason for ?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
21 Sep 2011 #526
Communism certainly regimented certain attitudes. I was talking with my private student about it this morning. He is mid-fifties and really loathes the complications commies threw in when simple procedures were viable. There were many spiteful and vindictive sorts within their ranks.
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
21 Sep 2011 #527
Ironside wrote:

I would say that WWII was a biggest single experience for Poles, one which shaped Poles in a way that western nations cannot comprehend.

most of what you write is pure incoherent babble with little to no point that i have to absolutely strain to get through....but this sentence only proves Teffle and I's point.

WWII. Surely that war impacted Poland tremendously. As you said, "shaped Poles in a way that western nations cannot comprehend." You know what else the west can't comprehend? Being Russia's b1tch for decades being shatted on and denied simple democracy, not being allowed outside your country's borders, trying to start all over after being completely raped in the war, waiting on line for hours just to get a bottle of vinegar and a loaf of bread.....

Buddy, WWII lasted a long while, sure, but communism lasted a hell of a lot longer. You don't think that "shaped Poles in a way that western nations cannot comprehend?"

stary.........

this isn't a matter of good or bad. it's a matter of is or isn't.
pawian 176 | 14,299
21 Sep 2011 #528
=FUZZYWICKETS]the majority of Poland's population right now grew up during communist times, and everyone over the age of about 44 has spent more years in communism than in a democratic society. how can you compare a country full of people like that to people in western europe?

I detect a slight derision here. It is unfair.

I prefer to live in Poland than in the West. Poles, though poorer and with communist mental burden, are still better people than Westerners. Less morally corrupt, more traditional, keeping good old values. Although I am pissed off many times by my compatriots, I can`t imagine my life out of Poland.

=FUZZYWICKETS]As you said, "shaped Poles in a way that western nations cannot comprehend." You know what else the west can't comprehend? Being Russia's b1tch for decades being shatted on and denied simple democracy, not being allowed outside your country's borders, trying to start all over after being completely raped in the war, waiting on line for hours just to get a bottle of vinegar and a loaf of bread.....

Now it is you who is overreacting. That`s silly what you are writing, do you realise it?
Teffle 22 | 1,321
21 Sep 2011 #529
I detect a slight derision here.

Not necessarily Pawian.

Poles, though poorer and with communist mental burden, are still better people than Westerners.

...and you are kind of making the point here. You are making the distinction yourself, saying they are different to "the west"

: )

Have a word with Ironside will ya?
pawian 176 | 14,299
21 Sep 2011 #530
=Teffle].and you are kind of making the point here. You are making the distinction yourself, saying they are different to "the west"

Yes, we are different in the sense of being better people. :):):):)

=Teffle]Have a word with Ironside will ya?

Leave my friend, Ironside, alone.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
21 Sep 2011 #531
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Europe

Here is some info about Eastern Europe

If you cut Europe into 2 halfs then yes Poland is in eastern Europe. But if you cut it in 4/5 or even more then she isn't. If you want to look at things black and white pls call Poland eastern Europe. It would only show what a type of person you are.

If we think Eastern as eastern part of Europe then this is somehow the right picture:



sascha 1 | 826
21 Sep 2011 #532
If you want to look at things black and white pls call Poland eastern Europe. It would only show what a type of person you are.

why? that kind of division doesnt have anything to do wiht geography. its purely political imo.

thats it and not only in the modern times. that started much earlier. it imo reflects just how the 'rest of europe' sees the countries eastern from them, of course with the adequate cronotation.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
21 Sep 2011 #533
why? that kind of division doesnt have anything to do wiht geography.

That's just stupid then Norwegians could call Sweden an eastern European country just because it's East from them? Come on!
Des Essientes 7 | 1,291
21 Sep 2011 #534
Pawain, why couldn't the Norwegians do that? The Germans called Austria "Austria", meaning "Eastern". There is no official definition for what is, or isn't, Eastern Europe and there never will be. This thread is pointless.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
21 Sep 2011 #535
The Germans called Austria "Austria", meaning "Eastern".

Uh, they called it "Österreich", meaning "Eastern borderlands"
sascha 1 | 826
22 Sep 2011 #536
That's just stupid then Norwegians could call Sweden an eastern European country just becaouse it's East from them? Come on!

obviously u did not understand what i meant. read my post again and think about the political development in europe.

norvegians would of course NOT call sweden eastern european country. thats the point. they are the 'same club'. ;)

The Germans called Austria "Austria", meaning "Eastern"

many germans consider oesterreich as its 17 bundesland. the title or name is irrelevant... ;))))
Mr Grunwald 29 | 2,014
22 Sep 2011 #537
they are the 'same club'. ;)

and I see Poland in EU + NATO if that ain't a "club" then what is it? :)

why couldn't the Norwegians do that?

Cause their Swedes... Their in Scandinavia.... Northern Europe... Hello?! Same fricking neighbourhood
Ironside 50 | 10,939
22 Sep 2011 #538
but this sentence only proves Teffle and I's point.

No it doesn't fuzz!
Because you said that experience of communism make Poles mentality different from western mentality (whatever that means). Well no it doesn't !
And fuzz, empty shelves, queues are not that important!
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
22 Sep 2011 #539
Ironside wrote:

Because you said that experience of communism make Poles mentality different from western mentality (whatever that means). Well no it doesn't !

yeah, you're right. no right to vote, start your own businesses, leave the country, filtered TV and all other media for that matter, no consumer freedom, waiting on line for food every day, literally a worthless national currency, oppression, Big Brother type bureaucracy such as "zameldowanie"........yeah, you're right. That surely would have no influence on a country. Nope. Just like westerners, for sure.

you are completely out of touch with reality. enjoy that.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
22 Sep 2011 #540
Nope. Just like westerners, for sure.

Ah , but I have never said that have I?
All I'm saying fuzz that so called communism wasn't a single issue which molded Polish mentality (or shaped) into something different from those of western Europe.

I know that you don't like me and vice-versa but for once pay attention.

Secondary points, you can skip them:

waiting on line for food every day

Actually it was only truth for the last 9 years or so.......it wasn't constant you know,line for food you can find after 1945 in Britain, Italy; as a matter of fact occupation oppression and all that you can find in Germany after war as well.

In all it is not an unique experience for Europe!

no right to vote

You have to vote !Only choices were narrowed ...

filtered TV and all other media for that matter

As if media were telling the truth now eh? enjoy your reality !


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