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"Poland's Concentration Camp" ??


dolnoslask
15 Feb 2016 #541
Delph I think your post below would be of interest to the public prosecutor once the new law comes into force.
your post #440

"Actually, Harry is talking about Polish concentration camps, not Nazi ones in occupied Poland.

Yes, Poland had their own.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
15 Feb 2016 #542
Delph I think your post below would be of interest to the public prosecutor once the new law comes into force.

Don't you know the difference between a concentration camp and a death camp?
dolnoslask
15 Feb 2016 #543
The draft bill refers to the use and promotion of the term "'Polish concentration camps" , my understanding of any other terms of reference has no bearing on the new legislation.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
15 Feb 2016 #544
Only in relation to the camps actually run by Nazi Germany. The law has nothing to do with the concentration camps run by Poland and Poles before, during and after the war. For a start, it would immensely idiotic to ban discussion of post-war concentration camps, given that several ex-Presidents were held in them.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161
15 Feb 2016 #545
All countries have been running concentration camps.
dolnoslask
15 Feb 2016 #546
" it would immensely idiotic to ban discussion of post-war concentration camps", It will be interesting to see how the new law will be applied, one never knows how broad the legislation will be.

Many laws have now limited discussion in Europe regarding certain subjects, racial sand sexual equality, holocaust denial etc.
Lolek222 - | 80
15 Feb 2016 #547
A pure jealousy plain and simple other would like to have such a clean slate when it comes to camps or shameful history.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
15 Feb 2016 #548
It will be interesting to see how the new law will be applied, one never knows how broad the legislation will be.

I'm not sure where you're getting your information from, because Polish sources are saying that it will be directed specifically at the problem of people calling the Nazi German camps "Polish". There's no mention of anything else.

A pure jealousy plain and simple other would like to have such a clean slate when it comes to camps or shameful history.

As if Poland has a clean slate when it comes to concentration camps, internment and being disgraceful.

All countries have been running concentration camps.

Including Poland. Nothing unusual, really.
dolnoslask
15 Feb 2016 #549
I get your point delp but many polish articles are referring to "Polish concentration camps" as well as death camps , take a look at the English link radio Poland below.

thenews.pl/1/9/Artykul/240662,Poland-to-sue-over-references-to-Polish-death-camps

As I said I am not sure how broad the legislation will be.
Stupid 'Murican
15 Feb 2016 #550
Harry 18:55 #545

"Probably not, I certainly don't remember reading here about any posts about Poland running death camps during WWII. As for the concentration camps Poland ran before, during and after WWII, one imagines that accurate statements about historical facts won't be made illegal in Poland (and even if they were to be criminalised such law wouldn't pass the sniff test at the European level)."

yeah you keep bringing this up about "concentration camps" and while factually accurate its disingenuous because they were more accurately prison camps than what most people have come to think of as "concentration camps".

i am not Polish btw but if i had to guess im not surprised if many other European countries had similar prison camps at the time and of Soviet Union there had to be dozens if not hundreds of camps similar or worse. So i'm not sure the point. Do regard Poles as overly (and innappropriately?) proud of their history for some reason? Or claiming to be victims when they aren't?
Chemikiem 7 | 2,568
15 Feb 2016 #551
Polish sources are saying that it will be directed specifically at the problem of people calling the Nazi German camps "Polish".

BBC News are saying the exact same thing.
People found guilty could face up to 5 years in prison :-

bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35581708
jon357 67 | 16,836
16 Feb 2016 #552
It's mostly political and diplomatic sabre-rattling.

That and a certain unease and sensitivity to criticism about various events in the war, the recent publication of a book (not yet available in Polish, but the storm clouds are gathering already for when it is) with a couple of chapters on the Polish Conventration camps operated in Scotland by Sikorski and of course the ever-present issue about the real estate and other property of holocaust victims from Poland.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #553
several ex-Presidents were held in them

Can you list them?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
16 Feb 2016 #554
Kaczyński, Wałęsa, Komorowski. Prime Ministers too - Witos for example.
jon357 67 | 16,836
16 Feb 2016 #555
Prime Ministers too

Marian Zyndram-Kościałkowski...
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #556
Kaczyński, Wałęsa, Komorowski. Prime Ministers too - Witos

It must be a BB contagion, because lower-case twists words to fit his sick psyche (he defines top support as decline). You in turn are the master of hyperbole. None of the above have ever been sent to a concentrtation camp unless for some weird reason you have deicded to apply that very specific term to every form of detention. Witos did time in Brześć prison, also not a concentraion camp. Just think of all the non-Polish and non-Poland-based posters you and your ilk are constantly miselading by such distrotions.
jon357 67 | 16,836
16 Feb 2016 #557
None of the above have ever been sent to a concentrtation camp

Marian Zyndram-Kościałkowski certainly was, and we can expect quite a bit of discussion on this issue during 2016...
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
16 Feb 2016 #558
None of the above have ever been sent to a concentrtation camp unless for some weird reason you have deicded to apply that very specific term to every form of detention

Internment camp, concentration camp - the two terms are synonymous. The only reason we call them internment camps these days is because concentration camps is also used in connection with the Nazi Germany death camps.

People found guilty could face up to 5 years in prison :-

Can you honestly imagine a Western court extraditing someone to Poland over what they wrote in a newspaper?

It'll be one of those things, like the old Communist habit of sentencing people to death in absentia.
dolnoslask
16 Feb 2016 #559
Delp "The only reason we call them internment camps these days is because concentration camps is also used in connection with the Nazi Germany death camps"

Yes it does appear that the polish media does appear to treat "concentration camp" and "death camp" as one and the same.
Harry
16 Feb 2016 #560
Can you honestly imagine a Western court extraditing someone to Poland over what they wrote in a newspaper?

At the risk of being very cynical, I'd say that the five-year maximum sentence has been put forward by somebody who thinks that such a long sentence means that Poland can rely on the European Arrest Warrant system.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
16 Feb 2016 #561
That looks to be entirely the case. Abusing the EAW is nothing new for Polish prosecutors, and with laptop Ziobro in charge, he'll simply direct them to issue an EAW for the slightest insult. The only problem is that no court in the EU is going to extradite someone to a country where the rule of law is in question and where the prosecutors are subject to direct political interference.
jon357 67 | 16,836
16 Feb 2016 #562
Abusing the EAW is nothing new for Polish prosecutors

At least one member state (Belgium certainly and I think others) automatically puts EAWs issued by Poland to the back of the queue - effectively meaning they aren't acted upon. Other member states have discussed the issue of Poland's a ing the system and an attempt to use the EAW in a political way, especially against citizens of other countries (and who are likely to be journalists from high-profile newspapers or politicians FFS) will just mean Poland hers suspended from the EAW system.
Ironside 50 | 10,907
16 Feb 2016 #563
Abusing the EAW is nothing new for Polish prosecutors,

It is not so much abusing as a sign of badly functioning system. Ziboro has nothing to do with it. Hopefully he'll fix it! Is he even aware that is a problem?
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #564
Marian Zyndram-Kościałkowski

Był internowany w obozie stworzonym dla przeciwników politycznych Władysława Sikorskiego na wyspie Bute[27].
First time I've ever heard of this -- learn something new every day. Anyway Bereza Kartuska was a detention camp whereas Brezść was a normal prison.

All in all, there's no reason to single out Poland since even the most democratic countries such as the USA have built such camps at one time or another.
jon357 67 | 16,836
16 Feb 2016 #565
First time I've ever heard of this -- learn something new every day

There's a new book out that discusses the concentration camps set up by Sikorski. When it comes out in Polish translation we can expect the usual outrage.

I gather the no win-no fee vulture lawyers are already trying to trace (very elderly) survivors and family members of those who were shot trying to escape.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,446
16 Feb 2016 #566
There's a new book out

Send me a copy with your autograph and I'll read it. I've heard you're so famous that your signature and 5 złotys will get you a cup of coffee in any Polish McDonald's. And it's supposedly 100% Arabica. Bon appétit!
jon357 67 | 16,836
16 Feb 2016 #567
Send me a copy with your autograph and I'll read

Why would anyone 'autograph' someone else's book?

Anyway, you'll doubtless read it (or selected extracts, anyway) when the fringe right-wing media in Poland go into meltdown over it.

It's meticulously researched though doubtless the usual hysterical nationalists will claim it's all a plot.
dolnoslask
16 Feb 2016 #568
From what I understand the book accuses Sikorski of sending anyone he didn't like to prison, including gays (according to the pink news) from memory it was only until 1956 that being homosexuality stopped being illegal in Britain.

So whats the big deal if Sikorski jailed people he thought were a threat to him or the polish nation, it was total war after all. he was our supreme commander and knew how to take care of business end of.
Ironside 50 | 10,907
16 Feb 2016 #569
Anyway, you'll doubtless read it (or selected extracts, anyway) when the fringe right-wing media in Poland go into meltdown over it.

Jon please you evidently have no idea. Why would somebody go hysterical about such a secondary issue?
jon357 67 | 16,836
16 Feb 2016 #570
Why would somebody go hysterical

IS please, you evidently have no idea. It takes little or nothing to set the media off on a frenzy and here especially they absolutely love writing about perceived slights to the country and nation.


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