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Do Polish people in general dislike Russia or Germany more?


TheOther 5 | 3,453    
21 Jul 2015  #151
Who do you think liberated Europe ?

The Russians did most of the fighting and lost millions of people, and the USA financed the whole thing?
johnny reb 16 | 3,274    
21 Jul 2015  #152
So the USA had to come and finish the job to put an end to it before Europe starved to death ?
TheOther 5 | 3,453    
21 Jul 2015  #153
I would say, the USA had to bail out the Brits first and then come to the rescue of the west Europeans to save them from Stalin. Without D-Day, the Russians would've have probably reached the Channel by the end of 1945.

This is what the U.S. Department of State - Office of the Historian has to say:

Quote:
"...the U.S.-Soviet alliance of 1941-1945 was marked by a great degree of cooperation and was essential to securing the defeat of Nazi Germany. Without the remarkable efforts of the Soviet Union on the Eastern Front, the United States and Great Britain would have been hard pressed to score a decisive military victory over Nazi Germany."

history.state.gov/milestones/1937-1945/us-soviet
Crow 143 | 7,293    
14 Aug 2015  #154
and what about Katyn? Ok, Stalin was technically not Russian, but still..

sure Katyn was a crime. Enormous crime and even Stalin wasn`t ethnic Russian, Russians have their share of responsibility in it. Still, its a great truth that Katyn wasn`t result of long term Russian indoctrination how Poles needs to be exterminated. What i want to tell, there is no ideological background of Russian crime in Katyn.

On the other side, compare Germanic and Russian crimes on Poles. You actually can`t compare it. Germanic crimes have genocidal idea in its background. Germanics grow up understanding that it is normal to exterminate a Pole because he is a Pole. But for Russians, this kind of thinking about Poles is absolutely unknown in history. On the contrary, Russians feel to be kin to Poles.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
14 Aug 2015  #155
Russians feel to be kin to Poles.

Is that the reason why the Russians just shot the Polish officers? Because they felt that this is the kindest thing to do?

Crow, come to Poland. Poles do not like Russians and I face that almost every weekend when I go out in Lodz. Sometimes, when I go out with colleagues from Baltic countries they are asked where they are from. Knowing most bouncers in Lodz, I know that if they would say Russia they would have to find somewhere else to go to.

Despite your fantasy of a united "Slavia", Poles hate Russia. It doesn't mean that they love Germany but at least we have managed to grow together. Why? Because we focus on our future together, not on some irrelevant fantasy of brotherhood etc.

Come to Poland and you will understand that Poles are not overly excited about what Germans did in 6 years of occupation but are even less excited about Russia's feeling to depress Poland for over 40 years after the war ended.
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
14 Aug 2015  #156
The English, even up until the '80's had mixed feelings about the Germans! Witness Margaret Thatcher's scathing comments about former Chancellor Kohl's helping to re-unite the two Germanies. She was dead set against it and, as always, was not shy about speaking her mind:-)

As far as the restoration, i.e. "restitution" of stolen properties belonging to those of Polish birth now living in the States for instance, the Poles blame the Germans who in turn blame the Russians for their "nationalization" of any pirated properties under the Nazis.

It's a hopeless muddle.
TheOther 5 | 3,453    
14 Aug 2015  #157
She was dead set against it and, as always, was not shy about speaking her mind

Yeah, she was whinging like the stereotypical Pom. "But, but ...we beat the Germans twice, and now they're back." ... whine, whinge, jammer, moan ... :)

Didn't help the witch, though.

Anti-German, anti-Russian, anti-whatever-nationality is an outdated concept in a globalized world, and I'm very hopeful that at least the young Poles will finally be able to move on after so many years.
Crow 143 | 7,293    
14 Aug 2015  #158
Is that the reason why the Russians just shot the Polish officers? Because they felt that this is the kindest thing to do?

madness, my friend. Madness, communist brainwashing and motivation for `red` world, fear from Stalin or even love for maniac. Still, even then one can`t say that those Russians who took part in Katyn massacre were since their birth indoctrinated with hate on Poles and genocidal ideas on them. But look at Germanic hate on Poles. Its total hate.

Poles do not like Russians

Then, what to tell you. Anglos and Germanics would finish this. They would scr** both, and Poles, and Russians.

Despite your fantasy of a united "Slavia",

BS! This is what you doing for years already. Whenever i talk about necessity of Polish-Russian cooperation and coordination you upload that about Slavic Unity. Just give me and to good people of this forum quote where i said that Poles and Russians needs to live in one single state. i assure you that i can`t remember that i said that ever. What i suggests are two great Slavic conglomerate, one around Poland (kind of new Commonwealth- what is my priority) and, other Slavic conglomerate around Russia (Eurasian Union).

So, Poles and Russians - NOT IN SAME STATE EVER! NEVER! Rather, they should at least have neutral stance on each others and not to live in a state of eternal confrontation.

Poles hate Russia.

i know that Anglos and Germanics love that. If that is the case, which i doubt from my experience. i often sow them nicely talk to each others. Or maybe we Serbians awakening sanity in them.

It doesn't mean that they love Germany but at least we have managed to grow together.

yes, that is why suggests formation of new Commonwealth around Poland. If Anglos (USA, Australia, Canada) can and if Germanics can (EU), Poles for sure can (Commonwealth), too.

Come to Poland and you will understand that Poles are not overly excited about what Germans did in 6 years of occupation.

politics is k***a.
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
14 Aug 2015  #159
@TheOther,

collective memory unfortunately often goes deeper than contemporary supra-nationalism:-) As far as "moving on", people will move on at their own pace, not ours!
TheOther 5 | 3,453    
14 Aug 2015  #160
As far as "moving on", people will move on at their own pace, not ours!

Unfortunately, the collective memory as well as the pace of "moving on" are not controlled by the people themselves, but by politicians and the media who/which seem to have their own agenda. Endlessly regurgitating the past is a great tool for the ruling class to distract from present day problems.
JollyRomek 7 | 481    
15 Aug 2015  #161
Its total hate.

We don't hate the Poles. Nor do the Poles hate us. We have managed to move on and have become good neighbours. I know that this makes your skin crawl, but it is a fact.

i often sow them nicely talk to each others. Or maybe we Serbians awakening sanity in them.

That is not a fantasy. Remember 2012 when the Polish hooligans were just waiting to get their hands on the Russian football fans? Well, they did. I believe that the scenes in Warsaw said more than a thousand words. So much for your Poland - Russia friendship fantasy. By the way, Germans (and we used to have a very fierce rivalry) were left alone by Polish hooligans.

Poles for sure can (Commonwealth), too.

Are you completely ignorant to the fact that Poles themselves have decided to join EU? Nobody forced them to do it. Why don't you, outside of this forum, make it your agenda to convince Poles to join a commonwealth with Serbia. Let's see how far you will get with it.
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
15 Aug 2015  #162
You can't beat the clock of history, TheOther! Easy for the post-War red-diaper dopebabies of the post-Boomer generation to talk casually about "moving on" and kumbaya, making friends and forgetting the past, but as we all know, the past cannot, indeed steadfastly refuses to merely pass away, to seep into oblivion. Any time a Jew visits Germany, or a Chinaman visits Japan etc. he or she is alread aware of the burdens of historical nearness, no matter how far we think we've come so far:-)
Crow 143 | 7,293    
15 Aug 2015  #163
We don't hate the Poles.

my skin is quite ok. i know, you would make one obvious `mistake`, your mask would fall down and Poles would be reminded of the truth. If any of them needs reminders

i don`t wish friendship between Poles and Russians. We Serbs needs that they are at least neutral on each others.

Are you completely ignorant to the fact that Poles themselves have decided to join EU?

So? Poles are wise. They needed EU. They would later need Commonwealth.
TheOther 5 | 3,453    
15 Aug 2015  #164
the past cannot, indeed steadfastly refuses to merely pass away, to seep into oblivion.

So do Jews still blame the Romans for feeding them to the lions? Masada? See, people move on after all.

dopebabies of the post-Boomer generation

Good thing I'm not one of them... ;)
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
16 Aug 2015  #165
Aren't you? If you were born anywhere between 1946 and 1964, you most certainly are (..as, for that matter, am I)! Don't bother denying it!

Secondly, there is a statute of limitations on historical events which occurred well prior to modern recorded history. It is true though that present-day Christian, as opposed to Muslim, anti-Semitism nonetheless stems from the myth that it was the Jews who killed Christ. The Romans were many times more "anti-Semitic" than the early Christians ever were, being as most of the early Christians had been themselves Jews. The Romans were pagans, pure and simple!
lowlifecreep    
17 Aug 2015  #166
" The English, even up until the '80's had mixed feelings about the Germans! Witness Margaret Thatcher's scathing comments about former Chancellor Kohl's helping to re-unite the two Germanies. She was dead set against it and, as always, was not shy about speaking her mind:-) "

so now you are saying that a PM speaks for every mind in a nation?
jon357 65 | 13,567    
17 Aug 2015  #167
Most people in Britain never thought of it, and Thatcher's comments were a whole different thing. In Poland, the issue of Germany was very different - there wasn't that geographical or cultural distance that there was in Britain and people's memories of the war were very different.
Roger5 2 | 1,475    
17 Aug 2015  #168
Thatcher polled 43.9% of the vote in 1979, 42.4% in '83, and 42.2% in '82. She never spoke for the majority of the British people. She knew the value of 1. splitting the opposition, 2. buying votes (council house sales), and 3. a war.
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
17 Aug 2015  #169
As I've already stated, Poland needs Germany much more than vice-versa. While Polish exports, e.g. apples, potatoes along with products such as beer, folk items, i.e. handicrafts etc. are popular in Germany, Poland must still rely heavily on her imports, whereas Germany remains an export-driven economy!
Mrs.Giraffe    
10 Jan 2016  #170
Well most Poles don't hate Germans or Russians. We don't like them cause they've done a lot of terrible things. Example: Holocaust (thousands of Jews were killed). The good thing is that Germany apologised Poland. Russia did not. Soo... You know. It shows who you can trust more in this days. Germany changed. Russia did not really, they attacked Ukraine. Soo... I think there is a bigger problem with Russians. But some of them are nice, so don't mind:)
Labrador 2 | 50    
23 Feb 2016  #171
I personally think that people who DISLIKE an entire nation ( which of course also includes the people living there ), are people who have not much of an education.

I mean, it's always the same people who dislike entire nations based on historical events. People who build their opinion on cliches and bad historical events. Why would I dislike Germans for what they have done in ww2 ? I dislike Germans who actually have done bad stuff in ww2, like old SS veterans, but not actual Germans who haven't even taken part in WW2. The same goes for Russia/Soviet Union.

So I would say, Poles don't dislike Germany or Russia at all, only uneducated Poles who feel like they have to stick on events that happened 71 years ( counted from the end of ww2 ) ago.

Most people who actually fought and suffered in ww2, are not even alive anymore. WW2 survivors are dead because of their age, or are this old that they can't even remember their own name anymore.

V/R
Labrador.
just the truth    
15 Jul 2018  #172
The united states employed over a thousand ex Nazis after the war in the CIA. One of these ex Nazis was guilty of killing 100000 poles. Read about it it is a fact. Do not forget the hundreds of Nazi scientists who were transported to America to work for the americans. One of them wherner von braun was head of NASA. Do I have to remind you how many polish people were killed in forced labor factories making german V2 rockets. This german scientist Braun even denied he knew anything about it.Do you think the americans are that stupid to believe that.Nato keeps on harping about the Katyn massacre but never mentions the 3000 poles who died during german occupation. I do not think that the poles should cuddle up to the Russians or the west. But I think they have good reasons to hate americans.Think how much did the americans helped the poles during the war. nothing They sure helped the Chinese philipians etc.
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
15 Jul 2018  #173
Concerning loving or hating an entire country, I should quote here the late German President Gustav Heinemann when asked by the press whether he loves his country, he responded, "I love my wife"

:-)
Crow 143 | 7,293    
16 Jul 2018  #174
Germans are deeper heretics then Russians. Its obvious now, if not until now. So, mere sanity dictates that, as sane, Poles must deal with them.

We Serbians will assist to Poles.

Purge the deeper heretics!
just the truth    
16 Jul 2018  #175
Please excuse my error if it was my error .The correct figure is 3000 poles were killed every day during the German occupation of Poland.This figure I quote is from the History channel so I presume it is correct. Probably half of them or more were given little food and worked to death in german factories. Yes they worked right along side Russians and other slavs under deplorable conditions. To the Germans slavs were subhuman and it did not matter if they died. After the War if germany won.They planned to kill about 80 percent of the slavs and use the rest as slaves that is according to the history channel.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,663    
16 Jul 2018  #176
This figure I quote is from the History channel so I presume it is correct.

The channel that has such shows as 'Hunting Bigfoot' and regalurly has a pro-western/pro-Zionist/Israel spin??? nawww.... Nat Geo (shoutout to my buddy Elliot on Deadliest Catch btw) is way more

They planned to kill about 80 percent of the slavs and use the rest as slaves that is according to the history channel.

They also planned to deport all the Jews to Madagascar.... What sopme Nazis thought of and wrote in some documents and books and what happened in reality aare two different things.... at the end of the day you ask a hundred, a thousand whatever Polish WW2 survivors and I guarantee you at least 90% (if not closer to 100%) will tell you that treatment under the Soviets was far, far worse than the Nazis. Yes, there were Poles who suffered worse under the Nazis than Soviets (especially Polish Jews as the Polish Jews were extremely quick to ally with the Red Army and persecute Polish Christians ) but OVERALL Poles were tyreated far better by Nazis than Soviets. To this day Poles laugh at the so called liberation of Warsaw and will never trust western Europe again to come to their aid in any military sense due to TWO betrayals especially by UK. The Soviets even tried to blame Katyn on the Nazis.... quite frankly for the average Polish non combatant who wasn't involved with helping Jews or like guerilla attacks against Nazi/Wermacht then they pretty much left you alone. They even gave food to villagers, did not steal all their **** like the Russians did (even cows and pigs were sent as 'reparations' and 'payment' for 'liberation'... not to mention entire factories and hundreds of thousands of people sent eastward for decades incuding my own family who didn't make it back till the Khrushchev/Brezhnev years).;.. plus an SS officer saved an uincle from an UPA dude who had him standing right in front of a tree - couple seconds later and I would've never met the dude or seen him besides photos...
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
16 Jul 2018  #177
Further addendum, just the truth.

The Poles to the Nazis were sub-human ("Untermenschen").
However, the Jews were termed by Hitler himself vermin ("Geziefer").

The former might still be permitted to live under the Third Reich, albeit solely as slaves and servants to the Master RaceLOL
The latter were in fact NOT permitted to live, certainly not within the dragnet of at that time occupied Europe, roughly extending from France to the Reichskommisariat

in the Eastern districts or "Ostlandgebiet". The goal here was total extirpation, even for so-called Mischlinge or "quarter Jews" in the long run.

Perhaps to some an insultingly insignificant distinction. It does though point to a slight degree of wiggle room in the former group which might have allowed Christian Poles to live.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,663    
16 Jul 2018  #178
Yes Slavs were deemed untermenschen. Poland and later Russia were to be living space.

However Hitler was not an officer on the front lines in Sep 1939. He was a bureaucrat and the dude in charge. Like any politician, the things he campaigned on, the things he wanted to happen thT he wrote in my struggle, etc and the orders he later ended up giving and the reality on the ground were two different things.

Now aside from the formal order from Stalin to liquidate the entire officer corps and other undesirables, he never called for poles to be slaves for the Soviets not did he want to exterminate 80% of poles. Yet despite never issuing such orders, the reality on the ground was that Russians were raping any polish and german woman in sight - including old grannies and children and stealing and killing anyone they felt like. And this same **** for decades after. Stalin gave a very general order to liquidate 'land owners, priests, intelligentsia, officers, etc basically anyone who he believed would resist the Soviet rule. Hitler on the other hand despite writing about such things he did not give any orders to kill 80% of poles. The poles that did end up in concentration camps were mainly combatants and those who fought or even nonviolently resisted Nazi rule. The average polish person living in the country side or city could live under Nazi occupation and not end up in a camp provided they weren't involved with the AK, jews, etc. We're there collective punishments, family members killed, peoples homes destroyed, etc yes absolutely. However if you were a polish Christian and you simply went about your day without getting involved in fighting Nazis or saving Jews you'd likely have no issues from the Nazis. That is not the same as Stalin where you could get sent to Siberia or shot on the spot for any reason or no reason at all. If your farmland was a few meters to big you could get killed or sent to a gulag. Your livestock would be stolen, the women in your family all raped, your family deported thousands of kilometers away. The Soviets had a huge beef with Poland ever since they were humiliated in Warsaw during the inner war years.

Again, one should simply ask polish ww2 survivors who was worse - Nazis or Soviets since they experienced if first hand. Here were just speculating
just the truth    
17 Jul 2018  #179
Such antisemitism. Did you know that every word in the new and old testament in the bible was written by a Jew inspired by god. It was jews that started Christianity. Remember the apostles who were Jews and the first converts they had who were jewish. Hitler hated christiananity because it was started by the jews who he loathed.He set up his own occult religion based on the arrian race as gods.Rather stupid no.I am very proud of every pole slav Russian and even german that tried to save Jews during the war. You can not possibly know how brutal the Nazis were to even mention any other nationality as approaching the brutality of the Nazis. I could give you a lot of incidents but it makes me so sick just to think about it.
Dirk diggler 7 | 3,663    
17 Jul 2018  #180
Hitler hated christiananity because it was started by the jews who he loathed

Can you provide a source for that claim? I dont recall hitler saying anything like that in my struggle. And actually in private he saw Islam as a better religion for Germans but he understood that Roman Catholicism and Protestantism were the dominant religious sects. That is why basically all german soldiers both ss wermacht etc had crosses on their graves.

And actually it was himmler who pushed the whole Aryan mythology and occultism specifically for SS members. The wermacht did not experience the same occult type ceremonies. They mostly had a few ancient Norse/Germanic runes as symbols for divisions. The SS was immersed in occultism though and this mainly stems from movements like the Thule society considered to be for top intellectuals and thinkers all over europe. Some esoteric groups like hermetic order of the golden dawn and the different rosicrucian sects still exist.

Hitler was no model Christian by any stretch of the imagination. He did however say 'As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I do have a duty to be a fighter for truth and jusstice.'

You can not possibly know how brutal the Nazis were

You're right I don't know how brutal the Nazis were nor does any member of this forum. I'm assuming you don't either unless you're a ww2 survivor which I'm willing to bet you aren't either. Therefore I recommend you ask ww2 survivors - especially polish ones as it was the only country that was simultaneously invaded by the Soviets and the Nazis and occupied by both for years - decades with the soviets you wish to find out who was worse.

While I personally haven't witnessed ww2 I have family members who have and have spoke to numerous poles who also survived ww2. And all of them unanimously say that the treatment they received as non combatants from the Soviets was far, far worse than from the Nazis. If they were polish Jews though I'm sure it would've been the opposite. So ask some ww2 survivors from Poland especially and also Ukraine, Hungary, the Baltics, Czechy etc what they think. Books, media reports and stories by people like elie wiesel who have been exposed as frauds all have a degree a bias. Most books documentaries etc about ww2 and the holocaust totally gloss ocer the fact that jews collaborated with nazis and were hired as police in ghettos and helped nazis loot stuff - kind of like the teenaged george soros. So will the ww2 survivors should you talk to them. However when one polish ww2 survivor after the other after the other all independently say the Soviets were far worse than the Nazis there is a degree of truth to that.



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