Is there any part of Polish history that's at least a bit glorious?

that seems to be correct. Fortunately, it is in the past:)

thx...

More to the point Ukraine creates its own version of history thats an outright lie, ignores its crimes and attempts to justify those it can't ignore with comparitavely small polish transgressions.

Glorious bits?

Saving Ukraine from the Tartars/Mongols.
Defeating the Tuetonic Order.
Defeating Turks at Vienna.
Ocupying Moscow.
Defeating Russians in 1920.

And lots and lots more... Polish history has very few black pages and quite a lot glorious ones.

Sokrates we can agree that there are so many events in Polish history which can be called glorious (…)

Even if we avoid battlefields and look in different direction there we can find something interesting: like first European modern constitution, some experiments with kind of democracy at early age of “Rzeczpospolita” and so one.

It's a pity that the Constitution only lasted a year as it really was a very carefully considered document. Part of it was to redress the drawbacks of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth but it was a seminal document for its time. If you consider how democracy has been watered down in the EU and America now, it left a lasting legacy and was majorly impressive!

"Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."

Sir Winston Churchill, Hansard, November 11, 1947

To begin with this quotation, it is sure that everybody can find disadvantages of democracy. It is true that nowadays this form of government is in noticeable crisis.

Comic Party Wins Iceland Election

I hope that democracy is going to push aside politicians who should rather be called populists. Iceland made sign for their politicians and there are many such signs on earth ;-)

As for the 3rd may constitution it isn’t Polish fault that neighbors invaded Poland when they saw some modern reforms in country they wanted co conquer.

See you, in up coming days. I need to train my English skills so (...) :)

Goodnight

I find it difficult to believe that you would profess ignorance of the breaches to the Treaty given that you and I have discussed it at length and you were shown prima facie breaches.

If memory serves, the ball was left in your court some time ago in our discussions on another thread (Should HMG compensate Poles etc) regarding Art. 5. when you said:


Are you back in the office yet? Now's your time Harry...


Peking Plan, no? For the benefit of those unfamiliar with it, by mutual agreement between Britain and Poland, several ships of the Polish Navy steamed to a British port and served the balance of the war ostensibly under British command -that factual matrix is correct isnt it Harry? Out of interest, do you have any piccies of those Polish ships fighting for Britain?

Perhaps if the British had steamed some of their ships to Poland's aid at or before the commencement of the war and placed themselves at the disposal of the Polish navy then... well, we couldn't have had that because that would have been honouring Art. 1 of the Treaty.


On the information to hand, it was base betrayal of the Ukraine. Pilsudski's attitude toward, and apology to, the Ukrainian delegation at the conference, is evidence enough of that. Ergo, there is no point in arguing against the occurrence of a historic truth, no matter how distasteful to Poles, unless you can show something in mitigation of that act to serve as an explanation rather than an excuse or complete defence.

Your last part is correct - whilst Poland indulged in an act of stupidity and betrayal, such act does not serve to preclude Poland from arguing that some other nation betrayed it, particularly where such act of betrayal arose in circumstances and per agreements wholly unrelated to the Polish-Soviet War.


Harry is a true-blue, dinky di Aussie just like me.

Were you born in Sydney like me Harry? We could have been born in the same hospital mate and shared wet nurses?

Some Polish said the following (from the other thread, interpreted in my words):
"I am not a Pole anymore, I am a Russian forever". It happened to be a Polish king. There are different people everywhere. And people see the issue differently. Some Ukrainians were on Soviet's sides as the latter initially supported the independance of Ukraine. Otherwise, most of them wouldn't have even took a stick in their hands. Many of these people, who knew nothing of the consequences of the communism and its Russian occupation implication, dreamt of better life. Of course, majority of these people were those who had nothing and the promise to have a piece of something was very appealing. Big farmers or small property owners have never sided with the Soviets. Ukraine in 1924 was declared a republic in a Union of other "free" republics. BS, of course, but who knew? Their aspirations were crushed soon after. Regarding your preferrance of Poland as opposed to the state's independance, it is a ridiculous statement, even not worth commenting.


Well, of course. Ukrainian Cossacks fought with women, L'viv defenders fought with kids and UPA - with both. What else have you learnt in Polish history? If there were kids in L'viv, these "kids" (veterans of the Polish Military Organization + students) attacked Ukrainians as soon as the latter declared Ukrainian independance and L'viv as a capital. If you have "kids" shooting at you with guns, well, what do you so? Surrender to "kids"? ;)


Probably, because you are glorious.


Yes, there is. And millions speak it. And there is English, which despite the fact that it is being spoken by millions worldwide, it still evades your blind-folded mind, unable to learn its basics: to put articles appropriately.


Of course, it doesn't. Every country has a dark part in its history. And nobody said it is the worst or even worse than others. Why do you make stuff up?


You, probably, meant Denikin. If you can't spell the name of the general and put him in "" how can you even claim how many supported him. Any source? Here is some info about Ukrainian "support" of Denikin:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anton_Denikin


Well, one of Ukrainian main forces at that time - Ukrainian Insurgent Revolutionary Army of Nestor Makhno (c. 40,000 soldiers) fought against him. Denikin could gain some support of former tsar administrative clerks who had nice salary and homes or army officers stationed in different parts of Ukraine to prevent unrests. Army lower ranks and regular people had no interest whatsoever to support Russian imperialism, quite the opposite.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestor_Makhno


I do the same about Poland. It is more exciting to discuss historic events when two or more interested sides of the conflict are present. I don't think you would be interested in listening to constant boring and often untrue "Glory, glory, halleluya.." no matter how sweet it makes you feel :)

Much of the negative stuff reported on Ukraine in the West as its history are Soviet Lies used to stir up anti-Ukrainian sentiment.

It has been used to brainwash other East Europeans including Poles.

The soviets are famous for being bastards and liars about many things, they are good for nothing.

Just off the top of my head

1400- the biggest medieval battle in the world, Grunwald in which Poland being the underdogs defeated the German Teutonic knights and saved Europe

1682- Battle of Vienna, which thanks to Polish king Sobieski and his winged Hussars Christianity was saved

1920- Battle of Warsaw, Poland saved europe from the Bolsheviks.

Thats just battles, i could still mention heroic individuals like Kosciusko. So thats just off the top of my head, events every polish school child should know

Btw if your so ignorant about History dnt make posts which show off your stupidity

Underdogs???

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grunwald

16.000 Commonwealth troops against 11.000 Knights...hardly the "underdog"

And Europe wasn't saved....it wasn't a european affair but a polish one!
And not only Poles:


;)

And Serbs.Don't forget the Serbs.

I already forgot about them...easily!

;)

You shaved Europe from Germans,Turks and Bolsheviks.Glory.

Bratwurst Boy
Germans were vastly superior in armor, horses, experience in battles and leadership....most Luthuanians were armed w/clubs and every aspect of allied equipment was inferior.

there is the historic scene when the Grand master sends two swords to the polish king Jagiello, as an insult

Jagiello replies: I accept both your swords, but the outcome of this day I enturst to the will of God.

Superior in horses?


He sent them because the polish king delayed to appear for the battle being absorbed in his religious duties.It was a gesture for provocation(if you don't have weapons to fight I send you swords).

He delay was strategic..... although i agree w/ the swords interpretation

Really!

Well...alot of Germans were in the Commonwealth troops and alot of Poles fighted for the Knights.
Stop making it a national Germany-Poland match...it didn't matter back then. It was about Power.


Yeah...they shaved them...:):):)
(Already drunk again at this hour Southern?)

Yeah it was, the Germans didnt attack Poland for a change of scenery.Jst from recent history I think we all know what Germans plan on expeditions to Poland

Oh pleeeeaaaaase...

:):):)

One really has to wonder if the polish history is so cool and glorious how they ended up so often getting their arse handed to them...

Interesting though...Poles wanting to use the Teutonic past for their Tourism!!!
journalgazette.net/article/20100801/FEAT04/100809988/1125/FEAT04


Now that is funny! :)

Whats that chip on ur shoulder?

To connect the Knights to Hitler is something only a Pole with lacking history knowledge would do...

Not MY chip! ;)

PS: Just think about the good things the Knights brought you...Marienburg Castle, Thorn...lots of other castles...tourists...Poland would be poorer without them! ;)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbork_Castle

Emperor William II of Germany posed for a photo in 1902, in the garb of a monk from the Teutonic Order, climbing up the stairs in the reconstructed Marienburg Castle as a symbol of the German Empire's policy. During World War II, Nazi propaganda and ideology made frequent use of the Teutonic Knights' imagery, as the Nazis sought to depict the Knights' actions as a forerunner of the Nazi conquests for Lebensraum. Heinrich Himmler tried to idealize the SS as a twentieth century incarnation of the medieval knights.[21]

newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Teutonic_Knights

I would happily bulldoze those shitheaps for the"Paris of the east" Warsaw which was destroyed by those pathetic krauts

There was recently a reenactment with thousands of people posing proudly in the Knights garb...;)


I doubt Poland would let you...they know what they have here with all these world heritage sites of german origin!
Warsaw is and was ugly...Breslau and Danzig on the other hand...beauties! ;)

Maybe we should try more on bringing Poles and Germans closer together today?

Maybe focus on those Polish soccer players helping the German team win games?

:D

Yeah! :)

This is an extract from a Polish novel in 1926!!

"German pride has no boundaries, and is a constant danger to the world, It shouls be broken for the sake of humanity and their own.

The Germans eminently sensible in small things, commit the stupidest blunders in large undertakings because of their dangerous madess of grandeur, they have developed a curious intellectual acrobatics which allows them to justify the greatest absurbity and biggest evil."

yeah pretty sure its a fair comparison........the Poles knows the german mindset very well

Well ... it was German Nazi propaganda connecting Adolf and Teutonic Order - this commie conception is rather forgotten in Poland today.
Still alive in the GDR ?