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Is there any part of Polish history that's at least a bit glorious?


Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,546
12 Aug 2010 #31
Speaking about the German past, why didn't you guys win the FIFA world cup ?

Yeah...:(
I believe Müller was missed...he would had made the goal needed to get us started.

Now I'll never get the cruise trip I wanted for the summer, thanks !

'msorry :(
Harry
12 Aug 2010 #32
It seems like there is many points in this article.

Read it in conjunction with the Treaty of Warsaw (1920).
Piorun - | 658
12 Aug 2010 #33
it stops Poles from learning from the mistakes in Polish history

WTF? If there’s one lesson history thought us recently is the betrayal of Poland by Britain to which you object loudly whenever some Pole reminds you. I think that yet another reminder is in order so we don’t forget.

Napoleon

You have a distorted view of Napoleon, personally my Hero. :)

I'm neither English nor a nationalist.

No need to explain, we knows who you are.

Poland's betrayal of Ukraine was one of the most disgraceful betrayals of an ally by a European nation in modern times.

Forgot Yalta already? That honor is reserved for Britain together with its ally.

Why not learn just a little tiny bit?

Yalta!!!!!!

What's a shame is that Poland sold out its allies.

Same reminder to a Yank Yalta!!!!!!
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Aug 2010 #34
Same reminder to a Yank Yalta!!!!!!

The US and Poland had a common enemy, there was no alliance. Should have fought harder. US didn't owe Poland a thing.

Someone asked about when Poland betrayed their allies, and it was pointed out. Why the talk about Yalta? Those are completely separate incidents. Who knows, maybe if they wouldn't have sold out their allies, Yalta may have never happened.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,546
12 Aug 2010 #35
You have a distorted view of Napoleon, personally my Hero. :)

Well, he was an enemy of Germany...an occupier...we have a huge building in Leipzig to remember the battle where the freedom loving people kicked Nappies ass! :)

Völkerschlachtdenkmal Leipzig

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monument_to_the_Battle_of_the_Nations

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leipzig

:)
Piorun - | 658
12 Aug 2010 #36
US didn't owe Poland a thing.

Agreed. Yanks should have kept that in mind before selling out half of Europe to Russians. You just don’t give away something that does not belong to you. Just a reminder so you don’t make the same mistake again.

he was an enemy of Germany

Hence he’s my Hero. ;) Nice monument, his name will live forever.
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Aug 2010 #37
Again, didn't give anything away. Didn't babysit you, but hey, that wasn't our job. Stalin said he'd give you elections... What more should the US care? Even if it was rigged from the start, it's your country, you take care of it. US managed to leave the war with a big win, so did the Soviets. Everyone else lost big time. US got their foothold and destroyed the colonial empires, and the Soviets managed to get their foothold and remove a very obvious threat.

You should have fought harder.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,546
12 Aug 2010 #38
Hence he’s my Hero. ;)

Heh:)

...Nice monument, his name will live forever.

...as will Hitler's and Stalin's! ;)
Piorun - | 658
12 Aug 2010 #39
it's your country, you take care of it.

So but out of the affairs’ of others.

You should have fought harder.

There’s nothing wrong with the way Poles fought , proud of it as a matter of fact and one more thing, don’t boast that Reagan happen to make the Soviet empire collapse. One speech “Mr. Gorbachev tear down this wall” did not do it. Btw he forgot to say please or did he?
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Aug 2010 #40
So but out of the affairs’ of others.

Why? If its in the interest of the US, it'll be done. What happened in Poland after the war didn't interest the US too much. Definitely not worth fighting over.

There’s nothing wrong with the way Poles fought , proud of it as a matter of fact and one more thing, don’t boast that Reagan happen to make the Soviet empire collapse. One speech “Mr. Gorbachev take down this wall” did not do it. Btw he forgot to say please or did he?

No he didn't. The system was unsustainable to begin with and was managed in various phases by complete retards. A little bit of Chinese style leadership and Poland would still be Communist to this day.
Piorun - | 658
12 Aug 2010 #41
A little bit of Chinese style leadership and Poland would still be Communist to this day.

Like I said but-out. No thanks to you.

What happened in Poland after the war didn't interest the US too much

It still does not interest you, yet you still play the same game.
convex 20 | 3,978
12 Aug 2010 #42
Like I said but-out. No thanks to you.

Yea, thanks to them not knowing how to run an economy. Hooray for bad management.

It still does not interest you, yet you still play the same game.

Obviously it does. Enough to actually sign up to a mutual defense pact. Now there is an obligation.

I don't usually hear Yugoslavians whining about being sold out at Yalta...In fact, the only country that beats that drum over and over is Poland.
Piorun - | 658
12 Aug 2010 #43
Now there is an obligation.

Precisely, just an obligation which dose not mean a damn, when **** hits the fan you’ll run for the hills as usual. I do not put to much faith in that. Lesson learned.

I don't usually hear Yugoslavians whining about being sold out at Yalta

Tito another Hero of mine,:) he did not give a **** about Americans and Russians alike, good for him.

In fact, the only country that beats that drum over and over is Poland.

Talking about beating that drum, perhaps you should reread some of your comments. It’s you and Harry that constantly beats that drum but the rhythm is not there.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
12 Aug 2010 #44
So tell me why Poland is so slavishly connected to the US? Iraq, Afganistan, Missile Shield, CIA secret flights... Everything to please the guys across the ocean?

And what do you get in return? Mothballed C-130's "upgraded"? F-16's which have continuous malfunctions (you could have bought first-rate Swedish Gripen planes, but oh - they are European)

LOT having to buying Boeing planes at any cost - ah yes they are American so they have to be super.
Visa restrictions canceled? Nope. You are still treated as illegal immigrants at the border.
What are you doing it for?
Lukasz 49 | 1,746
12 Aug 2010 #45
During this war more Ukrainians fought on Soviet side as the volunteers than on Polish side. I wouldn’t call it back stab in Ukrainian back. Ukrainian forces fightng on Polish side were tinny.
Piorun - | 658
12 Aug 2010 #46
Everything to please the guys across the ocean?

Our leadership still lives in LA LA Land, brown nosing as usual.

but oh - they are European

Well not much faith in Europeans either, since you asked.

LOT having to buying Boeing planes at any cost

Russians don’t do a good job on renovating theirs as the April tragedy shows.

Visa restrictions canceled?

Same should be applied to Americans but sadly the p**** in charge are just that. Tit forTat if you ask me.
Harry
12 Aug 2010 #47
Funny how you Poles are so ready to shout about Britain betraying Poland but you never ever go into detail about what exactly Britain did that was a betrayal of Poland.

Forgot Yalta already? That honor is reserved for Britain together with its ally.

You mean the conference where it was agreed that there would be an independent Poland after the war in which there would be free elections? Wow! What a betrayal!

Poles seem to find it as impossible to understand that what goes around comes around as to understand that if they don't recognise the mistakes they made in their history, they'll repeat those same mistakes again.

So tell me why Poland is so slavishly connected to the US?

As I said, not learning from their history.
Piorun - | 658
12 Aug 2010 #48
Funny how you Poles are so ready to shout about Britain betraying Poland but you never ever go into detail about what exactly Britain did that was a betrayal of Poland.

That’s because no one can convince anyone of anything, you’ll have to do some research on your own and draw your own conclusion. My bad you did without reading.

Wow! What a betrayal!

Wow! What a BS. Not much to convince a feeble mind.

if they don't recognise the mistakes they made in their history, they'll repeat those same mistakes again.

We do, you just don’t like what you hear.

As I said, not learning from their history.

Don’t you worry about that, lesson well learned.
sobieski 107 | 2,128
12 Aug 2010 #49
LOT having to buying Boeing planes at any cost

Russians don’t do a good job on renovating theirs as the April tragedy shows.

You could always buy Swedish - they are doing a good job at building great fighter planes.
Piorun - | 658
12 Aug 2010 #50
True, but if you ask me Poland should build their own .
Harry
12 Aug 2010 #51
I've done plenty of research and it all points to the fact that Britain kept the commitments laid out in the Agreement of Mutual Assistance between the United Kingdom and Poland. But seeing as you claim it did not, perhaps you could be so kind as to point out the ways in which it did not.

Wow! What a BS. Not much to convince a feeble mind.

How classically Polish: can't argue with historical facts (because they are true) so instead start with the personal insults.

We do, you just don't like what you hear.

Clearly you do not, given that you still lie about your history.

True, but if you ask me Poland should build their own .

Thanks for the best laugh of the day!
Piorun - | 658
12 Aug 2010 #52
perhaps you could be so kind as to point out the ways in which it did not.

What would be the point in that? We should just agree that we have different point of view on the subject and no argument can sway us either way. I just don’t appreciate a blank accusation you make, lengthily discussion would be nice and a breathe of fresh air sadly some of us are not mature enough to do just that. This forum is not for such conversation, most of the time it’s just one big p***ing contest.

so instead start with the personal insults

Otherwise it wouldn’t be a PF as we know it.

Clearly you do not, given that you still lie about your history

If you truly studied history you would know that there’s no right or wrong answers, just a point of view backed up by facts. Even though we can point to the same facts does not mean we interpret them the same way. It’s just a different point of view which always turns into one big pissing contest on this forum anyway. To have an honest discussion about history one has to go somewhere else, a place more mature than PF, which I do quiet often.

Thanks for the best laugh of the day!

Thanks for the insult Harry, once again you Rock. Poland has the capabilities and know how it’s just not nurtured by the government, perhaps someday.
Archyski - | 45
12 Aug 2010 #53
Harry, why does that piece in the history matter to you ?

The area which was sold, only contained 15 % polish citizens, and the rest of the country didn't care about the Polish, so why this anger ?

Poland sells some stupid land, and they are suddenly the worst in Europe ?

I haven't looked deeply enough, but I know as a common fact, that the Polish suffered after the war against soviet, the military equipment was old and the country had just recovered from the splitting, if Poland had some claims about areas in Ukraine where the people didn't even wanted to be polish, why not think economical ? I really don't see the big problem.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746
12 Aug 2010 #54
Harry you should better tell me why all British historicians with Jewish roots in 70's decided after meeting in Israel embassy decided that in their books Poles should be shown as collaborators or passive viewers of Holocaust.

Last time some of people who participated in this meeting talks about it and are sorry for that.

Norman Davies in an interview said that in the '70s came to London known historian Yehuda Bauer of the Holocaust . Israeli Embassy organized a meeting with him , which invited all historians of Jewish origin living in England. Davies got there thanks to the knowledge of Polonskym . I was shocked . Bauer presented for instruction, how to write about World War II. Firstly, the suffering of the Jews should be excluded from the fate of other nations. Secondly, people should be divided into three categories. Executioners , staring blankly and sacrifice. Kaci is " the Nazis and their collaborators ," looking from the side Poles and Jews were the victims , of course . At any nuance has no place.

They are sorry because they false Polish history. They are sorry because they false Polish history. Maybe you haven't realized that some facts are becoming well known, and you represent stand of people who decided that history has to look "like that" despite the facts. You spread anti-Semitism.
Harry
12 Aug 2010 #55
What would be a point in that?

So you mean you can not point out the ways in which Britain did not keep the commitments laid out in the Agreement of Mutual Assistance between the United Kingdom and Poland. OK.

We should just agree that we have different point of view on the subject and no argument can sway us either way.

On that we can agree: your point of view is that it's fine for you to lie about the subject and mine is that it is not OK for you to lie.

If you truly studied history you would know that there’s no right or wrong answers, just a point of view backed up by facts.

Point of course being that you have no facts to back up your lie that Britain betrayed Poland. Instead you come out with rubbish like "that there’s no right or wrong answers, just a point of view backed up by facts" So let's hear those facts. Or would you like to admit that the facts are the same one as those backing up the claim that Poland was the first country to put a man on the moon (i.e. non-existent facts)?
sobieski 107 | 2,128
12 Aug 2010 #56
Harry, as much as I side with you against the Polish reactionaries here...You have to admit that if would have been Chamberlain's and Halifax' choice, Britain would have stayed out if the war. Remember Leon Amery shouting at Arthur Greenwood "Speak for England" ?

Norman Davies is not objective. He seems to to think Poles were the greatest benefactors of the Jewish people ever existed.
Lukasz 49 | 1,746
12 Aug 2010 #57
Harry, do you hear me? Meeting which took place in 70’s in Israel embassy is well known in Poland. Some Jewish historians also say that stories about it are true. It suggests that we should look on some researches and books with different stance. What is more it seems that Polish (in this case volunteer) secret services are one of the best on the world.
Richfilth 6 | 415
12 Aug 2010 #58
In two pages, there've been very few posts that mention Poland's victories or charitable actions, or protections of minorities. Instead there's been fingerpointing (Brits are worse, Russians and Germans are worse, the Yanks are worse.) That's not the point. You don't justify a terrible action by saying someone else did something worse.

I will happily accept valid points about Britain's dirty history, but this continual claim that "the West sold Poland" gets tired after a while. After six years, millions dead, a whole empire collapsed and the western economy ruined, what exactly did you want Britain to do when Stalin said "I want Poland." Start another war?

To try and drag this conversation out of Harry's hands, how about Grunwald? And this period when Poland was the most diverse nation of religions in Europe?
Harry
12 Aug 2010 #59
You have to admit that if would have been Chamberlain's and Halifax' choice, Britain would have stayed out if the war.

And if Britain had known how Poles would lie for decades after the war, no doubt Chamberlain and Halifax would have been lynched by the mob if war had been declared. The point is that once we throw in the word 'if' we move from historical fact to mere speculation.

Norman Davies is not objective. He seems to to think Poles were the greatest benefactors of the Jewish people ever existed.

I have very very little time for Davies.

Meeting which took place in 70’s in Israel embassy is well known in Poland.

That meeting rather clearly has less than bugger all to do with Poland betraying her Ukrainian allies or with Britain not betraying Poland. But thanks for the info.
Piorun - | 658
12 Aug 2010 #60
So you mean you can not point out the ways in which Britain did not keep the commitments laid out in the Agreement of Mutual Assistance between the United Kingdom and Poland. OK.

Even an elementary student can. One can't have an honest discussion with you though.

Leave it to Harry to twist the things around, I'll have to admit you're one persistent SOB.

So let's hear those facts.

What's the point? Like I said, on this forum and with you? I remember when you presented some photograph pointing to it as evidence of Poles sailing the other way. LOL what a joke. Yet another example of lesson learned, never get into serious discussion with Harry, he'll bring you down to his level. Grow up, you're much smarter than you present yourself to be. Some day you'll have stomach ulcers from all that excitement caused by the hatred you harbor for anything Polish. Just a friendly advice.


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