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Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians?



Crow 137 | 5,910    
12 Dec 2011  #31

Slavs are Sarmatians. Serbians knows as they are last bearers of Sarmatian name that was once universal name of all Slavs.

Serbian imperial Nemanjic house was considered to be from the Dragon line. All symbols that were known as Sarmatian insignia were used by the Nemanjic`s. Let me remind you that we here speak of the ancestral noble house of the Polish St. Jadwiga.

As for the symbols on old original Coat of Arms of the Nemanjic house... there was a Dragon that encircling and protecting the shield with ocila and white eagle (ocila are Serbian version of a Svbastika cross). Dragon itself represented connection of a land and sky. Its a bird and a snake in the same time. If we go one step deeper into the symbolism we coming to the Dragon as a symbol of ancestral white Goddess that was creator of all the life.

You know that i here already mentioned Kosovo battle in 1389 (Serbs vs. Turks) and that creator of the Dragon Order- Voivode Milos Obilic killed Turkish Sultan Murad during the battle but, i actually never told you full story behind that battle, about Serbian military plan and strategy before and during the battle. Even that plan and tactics telling much of a Sarmatian tradition in a Serbian warfare. It is said that Sarmats had best cavalry of the antic times and, it is also known, that Serbians had best cavalry in the world in a middle age. But listen... before the Kosovo battle Serbian commanders agreed that cavarly needs to play major role in a battle that needs to happen. They choosed concentrated charge of winged cavalry, that famous Racowie concept (that later gave Polish winged Hussars and even famous USA cavalry during time of wild west) where riders ride in gallop in a tight knee to knee formation.

Anyway, among else, Serbian commanders underlined that cavalry needs to use same maneuver that Alexander of the Macedon used in the Battle of Gaugamela against Darius of Persia. Meaning, cavalry charge needed to focus on the point in the wall of enemy lines where is confirmed to be position of a enemy leader (Turkish Sultan Murad). They wanted to eliminate Sultan and as events confirms, Turkish Sultan Murad was the only Turkish Sultan that was killed on the battlefield. Voivode Milos Obilic, knight of the Dragon Order (Ordo Dragonis) led the Serbian cavalry charge. Riding in front of his winged cavalry, he himself had helmet in the shape of the Dragon

Obilic

Serbian Voivode of knights Milos Obilic- true Sarmatian


cheesymac 4 | 61    
12 Dec 2011  #32

I doubt it. Since Sarmatians were Iranian, I would think that Slavs would have a higher frequency of haplogroup J2 but that's clearly not the case. Maybe there was some mixing with Sarmatians, but it couldn't have been too significant.

It is common to think they are Iranian, they are not from Persia (Iran) they are just north of Persia, possibly the northernest parts of the Persian empire.

Jatts also have Sarmatians blood.
They traveled 2000 years ago east. To Pakistan/ India.
Jatts are the least to indulge in other cultures from the Sarmatians except after Sikhism, but I know little that do not consider themselves Jatts still, if they truly are.
blackadder 1 | 122    
12 Dec 2011  #33

why dont we ask crow about that. if i remember well he's expert on this topic.

Batman is a Serb,too.He wears medieval house nemanjic insignia on his chest,legendary bat-dragon.Count Dracula too,he 's cousin of Batman through Romanian dragons we all know existed in mountains of Transylvania.True story...Which leads us to Superman,he's got high contrentracion of Haplogroup J2 due to intense consumation of special serbian goat milk which made them superior to other nations.

First terrorist ever was a Serb,he killed Franz Ferdinand which started WW1.
sascha 1 | 835    
12 Dec 2011  #34

First terrorist ever was a Serb,he killed Franz Ferdinand which started WW1.

expected.

Batman is a Serb,too.He wears medieval house nemanjic insignia on his chest,legendary bat-dragon.Count Dracula too,he 's cousin of Batman through Romanian dragons we all know existed in mountains of Transylvania.True story...Which leads us to Superman,he's got high contrentracion of Haplogroup J2 due to intense consumation of special serbian goat milk which made them superior to other nations.

schlechter witz, bad joke mein lieber kroate.

i really have no clue why your people are still full of complexes when it comes to the topic serbs. my advise is to put the ball down and remember whom you are talking to. your thankfulness towards germany should always be visible.

btw, the anschluss of cro to eu is one of the biggest presents ger gave you. again moment for your thankfulness.

my advise is, put your complexes aside and see what you can do with life. that in every spot serbs have more backbone than you is a fact. you treuly remind me of the other kroate here, el croate. he babbled the same bs like you.

at the end, your just boring.

guten tag noch und frohe weihnachten
blackadder 1 | 122    
12 Dec 2011  #35

Sascha your complexes are clearly visible,and you are gone offtopic so I won't bother to read your reply ;)
Gastarbeiters...You gotta love them
sascha 1 | 835    
12 Dec 2011  #36

Sascha your complexes are clearly visible,and you are gone offtopic so I won't bother to read your reply ;)

me complexes? off topic? i have no clue dude what you are talking about, but rationalization is a good method to avoid the truth.
as i said, frohe weihnachten kroate.

Gastarbeiters...You gotta love them

yeah, especially before christmas. they'll have their hands full to serve. ;)
blackadder 1 | 122    
12 Dec 2011  #37

me complexes? off topic? i have no clue dude what you are talking about, but rationalization is a good method to avoid the truth.
as i said, frohe weihnachten kroate.

Feeling superior my friend?
Calm down dude...take your steroids...everything's gonna be just fine.And stop writing on your language,I don't understand it.

About this topic...I personally think there is something racist about measuring Haplogroups and bragging with it on forum without even knowing which group you belong.Some people feel they're not appreciated so they search for glorious and divine ancestors.

Most of central european people have similar DNA,and since we don't live on Madagascar we are all mixed up.

Slavs are Sarmatians. Serbians knows as they are last bearers of Sarmatian name that was once universal name of all Slavs.

You are all serbs,accept it lol

it is also known, that Serbians had best cavalry in theworld i[b][/b]n a middle age.

Yeah,we saw it on Kosovo battle...What about famous French,Spanish,English,Polish,Hungarian,Mongol,Ottoman,Knights Hospitallers,Egyptian etc etc?Never heard of it?Of course you did but you pretend they didn't exist.

Some scientists in Croatia thinks we are Goths or Sarmatians,Alans etc...I think it's bs,we mixed with local Illyrian populace and now we formed central european nation not different than others.Same with Czechs Serbs and Polish.
FlaglessPole 4 | 672    
12 Dec 2011  #38

And stop writing on your language,I don't understand it.

oh c'mon give him some slack, he needs to practice... and what better place to it do than on an English language forum...
rock - | 460    
12 Dec 2011  #39

Sascha you are possibly the son of a serbian worker in Germany and now you call yourself German.
blackadder 1 | 122    
12 Dec 2011  #40

oh c'mon give him some slack, he needs to practice... and what better place to it do than on an English language forum...

Yeah guys youu're right, he's so quick to defend his Sarmatian/Scordisci Celt /Aryan/Winged cavalryman/True Westerner/''Serbs were before amoebas'' friend

Maybe you become Sarmatian when you eat Sarma?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarma_%28food%29
rock - | 460    
12 Dec 2011  #41

Blackadder, I will really it sarma tonight :))

The one with lemons in the link.
blackadder 1 | 122    
12 Dec 2011  #42

Blackadder, I will really it sarma tonight :))

Now you are Sarmatian too!Congrats!
I had it last Saturday on friend's wedding.Is Turkish recipe different than Croatian?
50 g (0.5 lb) ground beef
250 g (0.5 lb) ground pork
100 g (3.5 oz) smoked bacon, chopped
1 onion, chopped
50 g (1.7 oz) rice
salt, pepper
2 tsp paprika
a pinch of nutmeg
3-4 garlic cloves, minced
2 eggs
1 large head soured cabbage
500 g (1 lb) Sauerkraut (chopped soured cabbage)
250 g (0.5 lb) smoked pork ribs
smoked meat: smoked ham, smoked sausages, smoked bacon...
1 cup tomato juice
rock - | 460    
12 Dec 2011  #43

SEE DELICIOUS ''YAPRAK SARMA''

google.com.tr/search?q=yaprak+sarmas%C4%B1&hl=tr&rlz=1R2ADRA_trTR426&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=2DTmToqGHszxsgbYuOi5CQ&sqi=2&ved=0CCcQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=518

Here is Turkish recipe:

Grapes leaves (Fresh or canned/jarred)

For the stuffing
Olive oil (of course!) (3/4 cup)
Rice (measure 1 tbsp for 2 sarma's)
Onions (1)
Tomato (1)
Pine nuts (2 tbsp)
Parsley
Cinnamon (1 tsp)
Allspice (1 tsp)
Currants (1 tbsp) (Optional)
Mint (dried or fresh) (Optional)
Dill (Optional)
Sugar (1 tsp) (Optional)
Lemon juice (2 tbsp)
Salt and pepper to taste
blackadder 1 | 122    
12 Dec 2011  #44

Wow so much spices...nice touch with olive oil.My wife says she like recipe(she hates meat) and she will try to make me Yaprak sarma.

Printing...

When I want a menu, I'll go to the food threads. Back to topic, please.
cheesymac 4 | 61    
12 Dec 2011  #45

greek-gods.tripod.com/Scythians.htm
In times of Herodot to the east from Don Sarmatians lived. According to a legend transferred by Herodot, they have descended from the Amazon who have married Scythian young men. This legend reflects high position of women at Sarmatian society. Despite of obvious relationship of given peoples, Sarmatians always found out hostility in relation to Scythians, and they posses a main role in route of the last.
Crow 137 | 5,910    
6 Sep 2013  #46

defeat of Sarmatians by the hands of Roman invaders

Story in connection of the old coin, giving us insight into the one of many chapters of the old war. War that never ended. War between European native civilization and Euro-North African hybrid civilization. War between ancient Slavs (read it correctly- Sarmatians) and Egyptians/Romans. War between money flow on the line Cairo-Rome-London and money flow on the line Baltic-Balkan-Black See.

Sarmats

So stop, stand by for the moment, you who know your Sarmatian origin, with a minute of silence. Give tribute to the ancient Sarmats, to those ancient native Europeans about whom Polish legends speaks. Their blood marks every corner of their vast civilization. Vast and glorious back then, as it is now and as it will be even more.

Slava vama koji ste pali za naš svet! /Glory to you who had fall for our world!/
sowhat    
7 Sep 2013  #47

I doubt they were light-skinned. Their last surviving descendants are the Alans/Ossetians.
Crow 137 | 5,910    
7 Sep 2013  #48

Try to think this way.... What would you say for Europeans in general? are they light-skinned?

or What would you say for the today`s Slavs in general? are they light-skinned?

See? Answers on those questions are positive but, things aren`t simple. From one side of Europe to another you have sub-racial variations, from lighter to darker skin. Those variations are natural, due to climatic differences and geographical distance. Even if we accept that non-Europeans influenced those differences, we understand that clime and geography represent main reasons for the differences. Simple, man in Portugal must be darker then man from Sweden.

That is about Europe. Europe is one continent. One. One, but so many differences. Now, try to apply all that what i said above on Slavs. While Europe represent one continent, Slavs are kind of people living on the inter-continental level. So, even more differences are natural.

As for Sarmatians, we know that old authors spoke of them as of people that lived on intercontinental level. Their ancient territories perfectly overlap with those of today`s and of old Slavs. Some old authors directly spoke of old Slavs as of Sarmatians. Old authors also wrote that Dacians and Thracians (and many other old people) actually were Sarmatians and that Scythians represented nomadic branch of Sarmatians. It is even said that Celts were comprehend as Scythians (meaning- Sarmatians). Buda (founder of the Budism) is considered to be White and Scythian in his origin. Old Indian manuscripts speak of invasion of the Whites that came from the other side of Ind river, from the territories that, as we know, in ancient times were populated by Scythians (Sarmatians).

So tell me, why would you insist that for example old Picts of Britain for whom we know that they were Sarmatians, actually were not ancient Slavs but some non-European speaking people such are today`s Ossetians. Not to mention geographical distance between Britain and Caucasus. And, not to mention that almost entire territory between Britain and Causacus in the early middle age still was populated by old Slavs.

Actually, if one wants to be correct he should say that most of today`s Europeans (and many today`s non-Europeans) are descendants of Sarmatians, while Slavs are still Sarmatians.
jon357 70 | 12,793    
7 Sep 2013  #49

Not to mention geographical distance between Britain and Caucasus

Britain contained a frontier of the Roman Empire. Their soldiers came from all over and in those days did not usually return home.
Crow 137 | 5,910    
7 Sep 2013  #50

well, well, well,... let us go back to Picts. They were native Sarmatians on British islands.

On the other side, of course that that you could found non-native Sarmatians on the British islands, too. Take those 5.500 Sarmatian warriors (hired by Marcus Aurelius, in 175 AD) that were recruited from what are today`s Slavic countries.

In fact, genetic experts founded similarities between genes of the Scots/Picts on one side and Slavs/Sarmatians on the other side. They were able to prove connection and to differ native Sarmatians on island from the Sarmatians that came from continent.

Point is, when Marcus Aurelius decided to hire Sarmatian warriors, he didn`t need to travel to the Near East, Iran or Caucasus to found them. No, they were everywhere. Everywhere were you can found Slavs even today or where, as we know, Slavs lived in the middle age before they were Germanized, Hungarized, Hellenized, Italianized, Albanized, etc, etc, etc.
jon357 70 | 12,793    
7 Sep 2013  #51

Picts. They were native Sarmatians on British islands.

We know nothing about the origin of the Picts.
Crow 137 | 5,910    
7 Sep 2013  #52

Then read and learn simple truth. Old Picts were old Sarmatians, ie old Slavs >>>

BORDER REIVERS DNA STUDY

freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~donegalstrongs/dnasarmatian-reivers.htm

Few quotations...

During the reign of Marcus Aurelius, the Sarmatians became dangerous again. Other groups had joined the federation (e.g., the Alans), and the Romans had to fight several bloody wars against the Sarmatians and their allies, the Marcomanni. Ultimately, the Romans were successful, and for almost half a century, the Danube frontier was more or less safe. In the third century, however, the Sarmatians occupied Dacia and from now on, the war against the tribes on the north bank of the Danube was really dangerous.

In the early fourth century, the Roman emperor Diocletian resettled the Iazyges, and his successor Constantine accepted many Sarmatians as farmers on the Balkans. Those who remained north of the Danube, were destroyed by the Huns.

The Vance markers were I1a. When run against the YSTR database, we found no matches - but the closest match, off just one-step on the 389ii, was in Northern Poland. The next closest match was in Macedonia. The other close matches clustered around Poland, Slovenia, Austria, eastern Germany. This was clearly a Gothic match pattern and does indeed suggest that the Scotch-Irish Vances were descended from the original Visigothic De Bauxes.

The Picts: Another possible explanation of the Hypothethized ht35 Haplotype in the Anglo-Scottish Borders area which has been suggested is that the Picts were actually Scythians, and they were the source of the DYS393=12 phenomenon found in the area.

Therefore Bede is believed to be using the first hand account of a Scot's view of their history. It is not inconceivable also given the original and then occaisional co-operation between Scots & Picts that this may well be the story which the Picts themselves believed to be their own history.....ie that they were descended from Scythians.

I've also found a map which shows the Roman Empire in A.D. 14 showing provinces added after A.D. 14. Saramatae (land of the Sarmatians?) is shown at this point next to Germania, with the boder appearing to be the river Vistula in what is now Poland. This river and possibly access to the Baltic Sea would allow Bede's reported story of the Picts (the Sarmatians, descendants of Scythians) coming in ships to be plausible at some point well before the Roman invasion of Britain. I think your research mentions something about a Polish connection.

jon357 70 | 12,793    
7 Sep 2013  #53

Old Picts were old Sarmatians, ie old Slavs >>>

Erm, you do realise the Picts were around long before then?

Speaking as someone whose roots are exactly in that region.
Crow 137 | 5,910    
7 Sep 2013  #54

Except there is no DNA evidence proving it. Sarmatians were an Iranian tribe.

i think that my previous reply answered to this comment, too.

Not only that Sarmatians were not Iranian tribe but we here speak of entire people of White humans (in all their variations) spread from the western-most parts of Europe to the Ind River, from Britain to the Siberia. And we have plenty of genetic evidences of it.

few factors were decisive in reduction of the Sarmatians (Slavs) in biological, geographical and cultural sense. First, that was fact that they are spread on a vast territory and it was impossible to maintain unified `state` and culture in past (without mass media). Even without foreign influence primordial universal language deformed in some areas and resulted in new local languages. Secund, controlling vast territory old Sarmatians (Slavs) encountered numerous foreign races and cultures that again influenced them and resulted in cultural deviations on the edges of the world of our ancients. So, new cultures and again new languages emerges all around old Sarmatians. Then, considering their great number and vast territory, old Sarmatians (Slavs) were power for themselves. It resulted in situation that foreigners were truly jealous on Sarmatians and often joined efforts against them. Rest is history of wars

Interesting but, things didn`t change much on this Earth, in last, let`s say 4.000 years.

Erm, you do realise the Picts were around long before then?

before Romans you mean?
jon357 70 | 12,793    
7 Sep 2013  #55

They were a confederation of indiginous tribes, so yes.
sowhat    
7 Sep 2013  #56

Sarmatians were nomads who rode horses. At the same time, Slavs were people who lived in villages and farmed the land. They lived in the same geographical region, but had huge differences in lifestyle. Slavs' diet consisted of what they grew and raised while Sarmatians survived on horse meat and what they raided from Slavic villages.

Sarmatians were also Indo-Iranic people (like their Ossetian descendants) and Slavs split from them long ago with the Balts. Slavs are more Baltic than Sarmatian, sharing the light skin and blond hair that originates around the eastern Baltic Sea.
eliseusz    
12 Oct 2014  #57

Yes i believe that serious connections between slavs and sarmations existed. Sarmations dwelled along the eastern banks of the vistula and western ukraine. Thus I believe that slavs and sarmation-scythians came into contact. I believe this esspescialy in the case of poland, in particular the south east.

While I was reading herodutos histories, i noticed that some of the people he was describing and labeling as scythians could be protoslavic. As he went north and est, he described forest lands where people hunt and fish. He was very vague and I cannot assume it is accurate, but he made refrences like this that dI'd not match up with the traditional nomad scythian. Slavic peoples, even if contacted by greeks or romans would most likely be classify ed as scythians because they came from the north east and may have shared cultural similarities with the people's of the steppes. In tacitus germania, tacitus describes the veneti, whom some believe to be proto slavs. He states that he is not sure whether to call them germania or sarmations, because their way of life is similar to both. Thus, any slavs at the time we're most likely seen as scythians.

Poland is very connected with sarmations. Many of the polish coat of arms are influenced by ancient sarmation cult symbols. Some sources even call poland the kingdom of the sarmations. Genetic testing has proven that the paternal gene r1a1 is shared amongst all slavs, but it was also shared amongst scythians people. I cannot help wondering if slavs and scythians were branches of the same people. Scythians took on an indo irnanian launguage while slavs spoke an indo european one.
Theuton    
20 May 2015  #58

I doubt it. Since Sarmatians were Iranian, I would think that Slavs would have a higher frequency of haplogroup J2 but that's clearly not the case. Maybe there was some mixing with Sarmatians, but it couldn't have been too significant.

That's genetically proven Sarmathians were rather a R1a and J2 came to Iran and mainly Kazakh later. Sarmatians didn't have J2 haplogroup blood.

By the way, J2 is not blond like Scythian mummies:
newobserveronline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/sythian-mummy01.jpg
forum.christogenea.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2152
factsanddetails.com/media/2/20111123-tarim%20mummy10.jpg
jon357 70 | 12,793    
20 May 2015  #59

Newobserveronline

is a race hate site - not a reliable source for anything. Its presence in that post puts the other 'sources' in question too.

And by the way, any theories about 'Sarmatians' is just guesswork fed by a lot of romanticism - in fact we know very little about who they were. Their genes today aren't relevant either.
Theuton    
20 May 2015  #60

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurgan_hypothesis

This discussion is about genetical origin of Sarmatians, then what do you wanna speak about? DNA match of R1a (for Slavic as well as Sarmatians) and blond hair color, blue eyes color, ect... are a facts, not any race hate site.




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