I agree with you on this. Who make the whole world Celtic?
Crow would make the whole of Europe Slavic
No, I talking about past of Europe. It was in past. See, present belong to western Europeans while that same western Europe doing its best future of Europe to belong to Arabs.
@gregy741 I often wonder what his agenda is about. Everyday he tries to convince others that Poland isn't what she really is. He's like KOD that got exposed today by onet. Kijowski was transferring money donated by naive KOD supporters onto his company account. Petru having a great holiday in Portugal along with his lover while KODers spent Christmas occupying Sejm. Ahahahah. It's so funny my sphincter barely holds it :)))
Does 'Zermatt', the name of a Swiss town, originate from the name 'Sarmat'? Just asking ...
You also have region Zerbst in eastern Germany. Russian Empress Kathrine the Great was Princess of Anhalt Zerbs and she herself pretty much clarified things by insisting on her Lusatian Serbian (not Sorbian, because Lusatians themselves call Serbs; Sorb itself is foreign given/pronounceable form) origin. So, if we then accept linguistic explanation that Serbian ethnic name actually represent form of original Sarmatian ethnic name, there comes answer on your question.
Just, same as in case with name of Serbs/Sorbe where `Sorbs` represent foreign form because foreigners were unable to pronounce native `Srbi` or `Serbya`, ethnic name of Sarmatians is foreign given form of native Serbian name. Meaning, Serbians are last Slavs who still using once universal name of all Slavs- Sarmatian/Serbian name.
Good news for all Slavs is that states begins to end era of silent ignorance of Slavic antiquity. Officially given statement of Israeli PM Netanyahu about Jewish-Serbian contacts from time of Roman Republic could point solely on Sarmatian-Jewish contacts. So, Polish Sarmatism wasn`t influenced by some Iranians as Anglo-Germanic historical schools want`s to convince us. No, Sarmatism was cultural movement initiated from within because Poles preserved memory on their Sarmatian origin. In other words, if Jews in time of Roman Republic (in time BC) had contact with Serbians (Sarmatians) whom they considered to be natives of their lands, Poles as Sarmatians themselves are also natives to their lands.
My mother was born in Grunewald, Silesia in 1924. She always said she was German and born in Silesia, the whole thing is confusing! She and her family were among those expelled from there in 1945. She was first in a Russian Compound, and then escaped with help and made her way by walking to Weinheim, Germany where she met my Father, and American Soldier.
Silesians have been Germans before 1945. After WW2 most of the Germans left Silesia...they had to... There are many Germans who stayed in Poland ...mainly in Upper Silesia (Opole) . It was allowed to stay if you learn Polish and change the German name to a Polish equivalent or something similar. My grandparents stayed next to Opole and experienced all this. My parents moved to Germany and so on ....
The current Silesians are a mixture of Polish and Germans in the area of Opole...the rest are mainly orginal Polish with ancestors from central and east Poland who came to Silesia after WW2.
well,before 1945 since when? Silesia was major and richest province of Kingdom of Poland,from 10-th century and its birth place of Poland.we lost it in 14 century to Germans.
Silesian nobels were behind idea of creating of polish state.after mongol invasion in 1200 ,Silesia was depopulated and Poland allow germans to settle there ,which changed its demography to like 50-50 by 14 century.
from what i remember silesia was divided between Poland and Germany just before second warld war.there was some referendums there.i might be wrong tho
you have no idea who Silesians are/were = Germans are Germans silesians are Silesians - Silesians speak a dialect of Polish(though some say it's a separate
Slavic language)
and many (big majority) of those who were allowed to stay in Opole region (though not only there) spoke Silesian and therefore were deemed Polish by the authorities
only a tiny minority of those who were allowed to stay were Germans who had to learn Polish
It was, but you forget that countries forming the Holy Roman Empire fought between themselves, too. And this was the case with Prussia and Austria when the former had taken away Silesia from the latter as a result of a military campaing. This campaign or war took place in 1740-41 and as a result Austria had to cede almost all of Silesia in her possession until then. The most famous battle of that war was the battle of Leuthen (Lutynia) in Lower Silesia.
It was, but you forget that countries forming the Holy Roman Empire fought between themselves
i think you missed this point in this conversation.sure HRE provinces fought between each other,but at the time of Poland hanging Silesia to Bohemia,Bohemia was province of HRE,AND this concession was towards HRE in return for peace treaty with German empire,not towards Bohemia.i
dunno why german leaders decided to attach silesia to Bohemia.
Poland hanged Silesia over to HRE for peace treaty,so we could focus on fighting against Teutonic order..Poland could not fight on 2 fronts(3 acctually,we also pushed expansion towards ruthenia) so we decided to sell Silesia for peace with HRE
During the Big One, Hitler tried to annex ANY once or formerly held German-speaking territory. These included much of present-day Czech Rep., Western Poland, and what was once termed "Besserabien" (Besserabia), including Slask/Schlesien (Silesia) as well as "Sudentenland", right on up through Western Ukraine!
this concession was towards HRE in return for peace treaty with German empire,not towards Bohemia
What treaty do you have in mind, Gregy?
Poland hanged Silesia over to HRE for peace treaty
Again, what peace treaty was it?
Hitler tried to annex ANY once or formerly held German-speaking territory.
No doubt he would have been crowned Holy Roman Emperor if he had achieved this. And possibly Benito Mussolini would have been elected Pope in order to crown Herr Hitler in Rome. A nice continuation of HRE into modern times!
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uk%C5%82ad_w_Trenczynie pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zjazdy_w_Wyszehradzie Casimir the Great sold Silesia in order to prevent war with Bohemia and HRE,and forge alliance against Teutonics and Habsburgs Jaiello was obliged to recover Silesia ,but as the traitor that he was he didnt.
you are completely right. Silesians speak a dialect of Polish now. Actually I am a Silesian and I know my family tree and the Silesian history.
I am speeking about that what my family experienced. It is not a general fact. Before 1945, this dialect and German was used in the area of Opole. One part of south-east Silesia decided to be part of Poland after WWI. It was a free vote. Most of the people who spoke Polish and saw themselves as Polish moved to this region as far as I know. Well it is hard to state a general answer because especially Silesia has a rich culture with influences of various cultures.
@gregy741 @gumishu Some people even spoke Czech. There are interesting statistics which show the language distribution in Silesia and its change over time. I am talking about the recent history of the last 200 years. This region experienced so much change during the last centuries which was good for the region from a economic point of view.
I'm not sure... but I can tell you there are still some old monuments in Wroclaw and the surrounding areas that are in German.
I was at a pagan cemetery on the outskirts that dates back some 800 900 years if not more. Most people aside from locals don't know about it as it's rather hidden in the woods but its a short 15-20 minute walk from the side of the road. It's surrounded by a moat and has a few burial stones some with what looked like runic inscriptions. I originally thought it was Norse or something but it could be maybe an ancient German language.
Everything on Baltic, Adriatic, Black sea line was and is 100% core Sarmatian (ie Slavic) territory. In fact, once, on its maximum, Sarmatian realm was from Scotland via most of Europe to Eurasia, Anatolia and all the way to Ind river. Germans started as romanized Sarmatian villages and city states in Roman province of Germania. It is just so simple. And I f*** them
@Crow This is a lot bs you are talking about. Stop projecting modern concepts of nationality into the past.
Germans started as romanized Sarmatian villages and city states in Roman province of Germania
Oh my god this is so absurd... . Before the Romans came, therr was nothing in Germania except large forests and some small settlements made of wood. They founded some cities (Cologne, Trier) but generally used the same system they applied elsewhere to secure their dominion: Working with the lical elites. They mostly left the tribes alone on the right side of the Rhine and made no attempt to actively "Romanize" them after conquest became impractical. However the Roman way of life proved very tempting to the "barbarians" which is not surprising.
Out of curiosity, have you ever read a modern history book by a respectable historian? Probably not, because if you did, yould know how utterly wrong your conceptions are.
Would you also claim that the Balkans are inheritely Italian territory? Because the Roman conquered most of it and the territory prospered under their rule like never before and never again in history.
The answer is of course no, since there is no direct link between Italians and Romans since the Roman people consisted of basically half of Europe, parts of Asia and Africa.
I was at a pagan cemetery on the outskirts that dates back some 800 900 years if not more.
Where is it precisely? What's the name of the closest village or place?
It's surrounded by a moat and has a few burial stones some with what looked like runic inscriptions.
That would be utterly sensational. If this is true, I doubt it has been passed unnoticed by scholars.
I originally thought it was Norse or something but it could be maybe an ancient German language.
If the pagan cemetery is 800-900 years old, the Germanic runic inscriptions are extremely unlikely. At this time the entire Lower Silesia area was predominantly Slavic as mass immigration and settlements from Germany and other Western European countries had not started yet. Besides, pagan Slavic people did not bury the dead, but cremated them. It was Christiany which changed burial traditions in Poland. And until 1138 all Silesian was united with Poland, and next it continues under the Piast rulers
@Tacitus, Crow is the roving troll/provocateur extraordinaire at PF. Pay no attention to most of what he posts:-)
Apropos your remarks concerning the presence of Roman settlers in the German Empire, it's also a well-known fact that the Germanic Vandals among others were responsible for plundering Rome upon their invasion of Italy. A thousand or so years later, one Adolf Hitler proudly staked claim to his now famous boast that the German Volk are "barbarians who are proud to be barbarians".
Hitler had very little historical knowledge, and what he read was often from autors who could not be deemed as serious historians even then. Needless to say, the claim that today Germans have anything in common with the Germanic tribes of the past is just as ridiculous. I wrote a university paper on the depiction of the Germanic tribes under the Nazis and let's just say, how they proved the "connection" between the Vandals/VisigothsGermanic tribes and the German people has nothing to do with historical research and everything with wishful thinking. And of course, there were attempts to underline the difference between the Germanic people who had "resisted" Roman influence.
Just an example for how the perception has changed. Historians used to depict the troubles of the late Western Roman Empire as a struggle between Romans and Germanic tribes. But as historians have pointed out, most of the Germanic war chiefs (including Alaric who sacked Rome) were actually part of the Roman army, often achieving high or even the highest ranks, so it is more justifiable to see this as an power struggle between Romans.
I will again nicely and calmly say- Silesians are Slavic, not Germanic. God didn`t even had plans for Germanics when Slavs lived in what is now Germany.
And I will say again, less nicely and less calmly, that nobody here at least has denied that the Silesians doutbless had some Slavic background owing to the intermingling of neighboring peoples and cultures.
Germanic and Slavic peoples though, remained SEPARATE tribes, united by common territory, period!!
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