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Why are some Polish people dark complected, and others very light

19 Mar 2007 #61
Can someone post a pic of a dark skinned Pole? I want to place this in its proper context.
19 Mar 2007 #62
isn't our word enough - what proper context do you have in mind???
ArturSzastak 3 | 593
19 Mar 2007 #63
what proper context do you have in mind???

I was wondering same thing.......
19 Mar 2007 #64
Sorry Jose,
it sounds kinda weird............Polish people have olive skin to really white, freckled, one.
We have very dark hair to really blond or red sometimes. The is a whole range of complexions. That's it. I am sure you can google it , if you are so curious.
19 Mar 2007 #65
isn't our word enough - what proper context do you have in mind???

A picture is worth a thousand words. But forget about it. It isn't weird. Context means understanding a term in relation to its surrounding information. Nothing wierd or esoteric about it.
shewolf 5 | 1,077
19 Mar 2007 #67
I think it would be hard to tell if someone is dark skinned or olive skinned naturally because it might just be a tan. I think an olive skinned person would be that color all over, without a tan. I know people who have very white legs but when they wear shorts in the summer they get a dark tan but they're still a light skinned person despite it.
19 Mar 2007 #68
what does a picture mean though?

The Poles I have seen and met while I lived in NYC were all lily-white, blonde. I've never seen a dark skinned Pole with dark hair. Its like when Europeans saw Black Africans for the first time, they rubbed their skin to see if it would come off.
ArturSzastak 3 | 593
19 Mar 2007 #69
I think an olive skinned person would be that color all over

ALL over???? By what do you mean ALL??? :)
shewolf 5 | 1,077
19 Mar 2007 #70
I mean exactly what you're thinking. :)
larry casula 2 | 69
19 Mar 2007 #71
I have olive colored skin, however, I do not let the sun shine on my chest or arms too much, i work out in the sun, and it is hard on the skin, so I keep covered and I am pearly white where the sun dont shine!!!
shewolf 5 | 1,077
19 Mar 2007 #72
I've never seen a dark skinned Pole with dark hair.

Did you ever watch the show American Inventor? A Polish man won the contest. You should look him up and see his picture. He's not blond or lily white:

Janusz Liberkowski
larry casula 2 | 69
19 Mar 2007 #73
I hace dark skin like I said, and also dark black hair and brown eyes!! Eww Handsome, somebody slap me!!!
shewolf 5 | 1,077
19 Mar 2007 #74
somebody slap me!!!

Careful what you ask for. :)
Huegel 1 | 296
19 Mar 2007 #75
somebody slap me!!!

So, who wants a slapping then? :)
larry casula 2 | 69
19 Mar 2007 #76
Yikes, now that looks scary!!!!

Looks like I got what I asked for!!
ArturSzastak 3 | 593
19 Mar 2007 #77
I mean exactly what you're thinking.

Weird.....Olive colored teeth.....ewwwww.
larry casula 2 | 69
19 Mar 2007 #78
Sounds absolutely Horid, if i do say so myslef chaps!!
19 Mar 2007 #79
I understand the meaning of the word "context" and I didn't ask you the this explanation, which I am sure you knew anyways.

I don't understand you motives. I am a person who is interested in motives and makes moral judgements, so after receiving your answer to my question, I am not any clearer on the purpose of you "skin colour" investigation.
King Sobieski 2 | 714
19 Mar 2007 #80
I am not any clearer on the purpose of you "skin colour" investigation.

i agree, i dont think matters if a pic of a darker skinned pole is posted or not.
shewolf 5 | 1,077
19 Mar 2007 #81
Weird.....Olive colored teeth.....ewwwww.

You're so bad. :)
Varsovian 91 | 634
20 Mar 2007 #82
My Polish wife is pretty, and pretty dark too.
Jet black hair, dark skin, suffers in the Polish winter from a lack of sunshine (a vitamin D thing).
Based on mtDNA testing of the EU 18 haplotype, Poles are generally fairly similar gentically to Albanians, Croatians, Georgians, Syrians and Udmurts (whoever they are - sorry any Udmurts who might be reading!)

I thought I'd blind you with a smidgin of science :)
20 Mar 2007 #83
Interesting what you said about suffering from the luck of vit D in the winter - I have the same problem. Although my features are not as dark as your wife's and I have green eyes.
Varsovian 91 | 634
20 Mar 2007 #84
It often results in liver and pancreas problems, apparently.
It's all to do with the darker skin being less able to produce vitamin D3 from exposure to sunlight.
D3 is 2000 times more bio-active than dietary vitamin D so you have to get a source of UVB light from somewhere. Solaria usually tan you with 95% UVA, which is pretty much useless for D3 production and exposes you to an increased risk of skin cancer. However, it is theoretically possible to get them to regulate their sunbeds to give you greater UVB. Unfortunately, UVB burns quite quickly so they can't get the same amount of money from you that way - hence they will probably turn your request down!

Oh, by the way, my pet tortoise basks under a UVB light bulb ... but I haven't the heart to deprive my little dinosaur of his sunshine!
20 Mar 2007 #85
thanks Varsovian
I have a question - does she take vit D3? Does she find it helpfull at all?
Varsovian 91 | 634
20 Mar 2007 #86
The tortoise?
Hah ha ha!

She doesn't take any pills, my wife that is. Strictly Catholic.

(Soorrry, couldn't resist that one!)
Seriously, she just needs lots of sunshine early in the year and late in the year and she's OK.
Fears osteoporosis though - that's linked too. And, despite the propaganda, increased milk consumption clearly puts you at greater risk of osteoporosis.
20 Mar 2007 #87
I asked you about vit D3, not your wife's sexual life.

That was a silly answer, pfffff.......
Hope you don't have any other problems:)

20 Mar 2007 #89
My Polish wife is pretty, and pretty dark too. Jet black hair, dark skin, suffers in the Polish winter from a lack of sunshine (a vitamin D thing).


Here's some better info than what you gave...

Recent years have seen the publication of a plethora of genetic reports dealing with the Polish population. As a result we now have a fair idea about the Poles' genetic structure and position in Europe. In many ways these studies have challenged traditional anthropological and historical research on Poland, which often claimed the Poles to be strongly mixed with a variety of ethnic groups that have migrated to the region over the centuries.

In a nutshell, the Poles appear to be typical northern Europeans genetically. They generally cluster with the other Indo-European speakers of the region, and show differenecs from Finno-Ugrian and southern European populations. Foreign influences on the Polish genetic pool, both from different parts of Europe, as well as from outside of Europe, appear to have been minor.

Let's first take a look at the sex biased genetic data...

In terms of Y-chromosome haplogroups the Poles are quite "Slavic". In other words, they are similar in this respect to the their ethnic kin in the east, the Russians and Ukranians. The most common haplogroup in all three nations is R1a - the dominant haplorgoup in eastern Europe. However, the Russians and Ukranians generally carry more of haplogroup N, which is seen most often in Finnic and Altaic populations. This suggests that the eastern Slavs absorbed Finno-Ugrian elements as they expanded east from their region of ethnogenesis.

Western European influence on the Poles via Y-chromosome haplogroups has not been great. Haplogroup R1b, most often seen in Celtic and Germanic populations, is found at levels of 7-17% in Poland. The typically Germanic I1a is even rarer, occuring at less than 6% in Poland as a whole.

In appears that the German, Dutch, Scottish, French and Italian migrants of the middle ages left a much lesser mark on Poland's population than previously thought. Invasions of Poland by Germans and Swedes also appear to have been rather minor influences on the present Poles' paternal makeup.

And it seems that migrants and invasions from the east have been even less successful in this respect. Typically East Asian and Siberian haplogroups, such as C and Q respectively, are extremely rare in Poland. The Finno-Ugric N, which is thought to have an East Asian origin, and was probably also carried by invading Asian nomads, is commonly found at 3-4% in Poland. However, most of this haplorgoup in Poland is probably due to Lithuanian admixture, and not direct Asian influence. N is found in about 40% of the population in Lithuania, which was joined with Poland for centuries as part of the Polish-Lithuanian Kingdom.

Typically Near Eastern haplogroups such as J and G are also uncommon in Poland. Western and southern European populations, as well as the Ukranians and southwest Russians, carry more of these Middle Eastern markers than Poles. This argues against any significant Jewish, Armenian and Turkish influence on the present Polish population, despite these groups' well documented presence in Polish history.

More detailed haplotype Y-chromosome data support the findings of the broader haplogroup surveys, but also throw up a couple of surprises. Poles show some similarities to Germans, but more so to Russians. They also tend to share haplotypes with Lithuanians and Latvians, which might be a sign of the common Balto-Slavic origin of these groups. Yet in the end, the Poles also show a remarkable homogenity and distinctiveness.

Population samples from Germany and Russia also showed similarities to Polish populations, with relatively small RST-values on pairwise comparisons (0.0176-0.097). It is noteworthy that all but one of the comparisons between the six Polish populations and the Russians revealed statistically non-significant differences (0.05 0.001).

From "Homogeneity and distinctiveness of Polish paternal lineages revealed by Y chromosome microsatellite haplotype analysis".

Haplotype data is also more useful than haplogroups when focusing more closely on the paternal admixture from Asia. For example, although R1a is common in Poland, it's also common among Tatars. So in this instance it would be difficult to tell whether or not the Tatars contributed to the Polish gene pool. However, according to the YHRD database, haplotypes typically seen in Turko-Mongol groups of Central Asia are rare in Poland, even if they represent typically European haplogroups such as R1a and R1b. They make up less than 1% of the combined Polish sample.

Moving onto the other 50% of sex biased DNA, the maternal mtDNA...

Differences in mtDNA within Europe are not major. In northern Europe populations speaking Slavic, Germanic and Baltic carry the same basic haplogroups in very similar frequencies. Poles do show some similarities to Russians in this respect that would suggest a common Slavic origin. However, they also share rare mtDNA markers with Germanic speakers.

Mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) control region sequences were determined in Poles (n = 436) and Russians (n = 201). Despite the high mtDNA diversity, both populations are characterized by similar pattern of mtDNA haplogroup distribution, which is also typical for many European populations studied.

From "Mitochondrial DNA analysis in Poles and Russians"

Our results indicate that AvaII morph and haplogorup composition of the Polish population is similar to oher European populations and has a distribution typical for this part of the world. However, statistically significant differenes in haplogroup composition were found between the Polish population and Italian and Finnish populations.

From "Comparison between the Polish population and European populations on the basis of mitochondrial morphs and haplogroups".

At the same time, Poles carry about 1.8% of the East Asian haplogroup M. It's somewhat of a mystery how this foreign maternal admixture found its way into the Polish gene pool, considering that the Turko-Mongol invaders of the middle ages were largely male.

Since the Baltic populations to the north carry less than 1% of these Asian haplogroups, and European Russians about 1.5%, it is more likely that they found their way to Poland from the south. Czechs are known to carry 3% of East Asian mtDNA, probably as a result of admixture from the Huns, Avars and Magyars. Therefore, the most likely scenario is that women with Turko-Mongol admixture moved to Poland from such regions as Moravia, Slovakia and Hungary, rather than directly from Asia.

Sub-Saharan African specififc mtDNA haplogroups are much more unusual in Poland, and appear more commonly in such western European countries as Germany and France.

And now onto Autosomal (non-sex biased) tests...recognised as the best way to test population structure.

More recent studies looking at thousands of genome wide Autosomal markers have firmly put the Poles in the same cluster with northern Europan populations such as the Irish, English, Germans and Swedes. This perhaps suggests that these populations share ancient links which are not apparent when comparing the fast mutating Y-chromosome markers discussed above.

Please note that in the first digram Poles are shown along with other Eastern Europeans in pink (EEURA). In the second. they are shown seperately in green. In both diagrams they cluster strongly with the "Northern" samples.

From "European Population Substructure: Clustering of Northern and Southern Populations"

Interesting to note...

Regardless of the European country of origin, each of those participants with four grandparents of Ashkenazi Jewish heritage showed this predominant "southern" cluster membership.

This could be more proof that Poles and Jews rarely mixed during their many years of co-existance.

Another Autosomal study came up with similar conclusions...
Varsovian 91 | 634
20 Mar 2007 #90
But don't forget that Y chromosome reflects historical times, whereas I referred to rather deeper things. /sigh/
I thought better of you than to merely cut and paste from the internet without showing too much understanding.
Mind you, Y chromosome studies do at least show that Poles have scarcely found a single German sexually attractive over the last 1500 years.
Which isn't surprising, really!

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