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Polish Gypsy Roots & Roma ancestors in their families


Cyndilou89
30 Sep 2018 #181
How do I know if I'm a polish gypsy? My family is from poland and I grew up not knowing them, my mother died when I was almost 2. But I'm so drawn to gypsy tendencies and such a major curiosity.
jon357 74 | 21,999
30 Sep 2018 #182
How do I know if I'm a polish gypsy?

Try a DNA test. Do a little research into the main companies that offer them. Ancestry.co.uk is one of the better known ones.
mafketis 37 | 10,851
30 Sep 2018 #183
Try a DNA test.

Don't. They fudge data for PC ends. Or if you have a bunch of money to spare, do several tests and go with what they agree on...
jon357 74 | 21,999
30 Sep 2018 #184
Don't

They're actually quite good, and certainly don't 'fudge data'. My only concern with them is that American companies can get hold of your personal data and retain it; something I do not want.

They do show if people have Roma roots, however it's worth mentioning that Roma have been marrying out of their group for centuries so there's probably be quite a mix in the DNA. In any case, DNA is just biology; it's about heritage on a cellular level and doesn't affect the way we think or who we really are.

A lot of people who do them get a big surprise when they do them. There were some tests done for a TV show in the UK a few tears ago. Carol Thatcher took part and her result showed she was 24% Arab. I'm not sure if that came from Maggie, Denis or both. The funniest part was when some bigoted cow who was running a campaign against Gypsies as well as having other unsavoury political connections took part and and found she was mostly East European Gypsy and Ukranian. The look on her face when she got the results (before she went into meltdown and threatened to sue) was priceless.

I wouldn't mind finding out (and wouldn't mind having Gypsy roots at all) though I don't think it really matters; everyone outside South East Africa is the result of a long, complicated and mixed human journey.
mafketis 37 | 10,851
1 Oct 2018 #185
They're actually quite good, and certainly don't 'fudge data'.

Like adding in African DNA? DNA isn't the magic silver bullet some people think it is, it can give a good idea on the major components but people want a perfect 100% count and as of yet that's impossible.

I wouldn't mind finding out (and wouldn't mind having Gypsy roots at all) though I don't think it really matters

Well.... the emerging truth is that genetics and culture are probably more intertwined than progressive people would like, with genes associated with behaviors like clannishness or altruism are not at all evenly distributed among different human groups. In other words, gypsies act like gypsies (clannish, distrustful of outsiders etc) because of their dna.

everyone outside South East Africa is the result of a long, complicated and mixed human journey.

Actually the Out-of-Africa hypothesis has been taking its lumps as of late....
jon357 74 | 21,999
1 Oct 2018 #186
Like adding in African DNA

We all have that. Nothing 'political' about it.

gypsies act like gypsies (clannish, distrustful of outsiders etc)because of their dna.

More likely a response to the reaction of others. Nothing wrong with being 'clannish' anyway, though very few of us have to be 'distrustful of outsiders' in the western world nowadays.

I hope Cyndilou finds something interesting if she does a test.
mafketis 37 | 10,851
1 Oct 2018 #187
More likely a response to the reaction of others.

It's also selection pressure, small endogamous groups with non-standard lifestyles like the Amish or Gypsies or Orthodox Jews tend to filter out those whose genetic profile makes them ill adapted for the lifestyle. Over generations this makes the core group more like itself and less like outsiders.

Inbreeding does something similar, your relatives are more related to you than are the relatives of non-inbreeders and so family ingroup ties are much stronger.

People are not blank slate widgets but rather the products of time and circumstance and longterm genetic trends that are far stronger than do-gooder social policy....
jon357 74 | 21,999
1 Oct 2018 #188
filter out those whose genetic profile makes them ill adapted for the lifestyle.

Yes, that's certainly true. Marginalised people tending to put up barriers is also a part. Gypsy populations, although they've often accepted outsiders, including in Poland, are a classic example of this.

Inbreeding does something similar

Not always a bad thing medicxally, however often devastating and increasingly a thing of the past, fortunately.

do-gooder social policy

I'll always take that over do-badder social policy or even a laissez faire approach.
mafketis 37 | 10,851
1 Oct 2018 #189
however often devastating and increasingly a thing of the past, fortunately.

How much of the NHS budget goes to treating birth defects from Pakistani inbreeding (aka 'cousin marriage')? Is there any evidence of cousin marriage decreasing in parts of the Arab world or Pakistan?

Culture and history matter in making social policy (and culture probably has a genetic element that science is just starting to get a handle on). Pretending that none of that matters in the face of enlightened social policy is a mass tragedy in the making...
jon357 74 | 21,999
1 Oct 2018 #190
That's off topic, however our NHS is for everyone, smokers, fatties, drug users, inbreeders of every background. In that background you feel the need to reference, inbreeding is falling fast due to health campaigns. Those darned do-gooders...

Gypsies however don't traditionally inbreed that much, not in the UK anyway, and if they do, they're still as entitled to universal healthcare as anyone else.
mafketis 37 | 10,851
1 Oct 2018 #191
Gypsies however don't traditionally inbreed that much,

Shows what you know.... I was talking with a scholar who's studied gypsy culture in Southeastern Europe and he says a big problem is that doctors often don't know how to begin treating them because of the high levels of what might be called 'distant inbreeding' (they have something like castes, not surprising, and marriage happens overwhelmingly within those).

I've personally seen lots of gypsies in Hungary who clearly have genetic.... issues (not so much in Poland I have to say, but gypsy culture reaches its heights of dysfunction in SE Europe and is comparably more functional (though often still pretty awful) in the UK and Spain (where some leave the gypsy lifestyle and integrate into the mainstream).

our NHS is for everyone

Not buying it, the following is appalling and ignoring it in the name of.... some weirdo progressive idea is morally repellent

independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-borough-child-deaths-redbridge-parents-related-cousins-pakistani-families-council-report-a7741146.html
jon357 74 | 21,999
1 Oct 2018 #192
Shows what you know

Rather a lot, if you'd paid attention to the clause after the comma.

Not buying it

It's not for sale to you, and yes, cousin marriage is decreasing steadily.

some weirdo progressive idea

The NHS being for all, without conditions and free to use? If that's 'weirdo progressive', I'm happy with that.

Remember this thread is about Polish Roma. If you want to rant about your views on people of other cultures, there's doubtless oyrhe threads for that.

Personally, I'll be happy if Cindylou89 finds her roots. Roma, Sinti and Kal people in Poland and around have a rich and often tragic history. She doesn't say what country she's in, however people from those countries have emigrated around the world.
Xxxrune
4 Sep 2020 #193
Merged:

Wondering about Polish Roma decent.



Hi everyone. My family came from Poland but I know nothing of them other than some unfortunately passed in concentration camps. My family otherwise does not talk about history. Recently my Roma neighbor is convinced I am Romani. I have been looking to learn more ever since.

I don't have many photos of family. Here's a photo of my grandmother (on the left) next to her daughter. imgur.com/a/6cVJUGv

Here's a photo of me. imgur.com/gallery/QT6lV1h

I would love input on our appearance, tips to learn more, etc. Thank you.
Xxxrune
4 Sep 2020 #194
Sorry, that link to the photo of me did not work. This one does. imgur.com/a/QT6lV1h
pawian 222 | 24,343
5 Sep 2020 #195
some unfortunately passed in concentration camps.

Thousands of Polish gypsies perished in Auschwitz death camp.

Recently my Roma neighbor is convinced I am Romani.

Anything is possible. But I know pure Poles who look like Asians or Romani, too. You would need to do a DNA test to make sure.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4,585
4 Oct 2021 #196
There's no such thing as a "Polish gypsy"... there are gypsies that live in Poland, but they are not Polish by blood same thing as Polish Jews, those are two distinct ethnicities
amiga500 4 | 1,537
4 Oct 2021 #197
thing as Polish Jews, those are two distinct ethnicities

The Polish Commonwealth was multi ethnic including the jews ,the ethno nationalist nature of poland is a myth even rafal agrees
youtube.com/watch?v=sq_SLeH3r2w
amiga500 4 | 1,537
5 Oct 2021 #198
by building up Gypsies as Poles. They are Polish passport holders and that is enough.

IF they are already in poland, have polish passports and there is no danger of a mass migration by other gypsies into poland then what is the problem? This approach historically worked with the Tatars who are regarded as poles and integrated, whilst still maintaining (for those who want) their religion and customs.
amiga500 4 | 1,537
5 Oct 2021 #199
Polish Gypsies have been here for centuries and have contributed to the culture, Papusza for one. Nasze Zydzi i nasze cygani.
jon357 74 | 21,999
5 Oct 2021 #200
here for centuries

Yes. you are right. They're not going away, despite some underachiever over in Illinois moaning online. A lot more people have Romany roots (including probably him) than people think, and the people have contributed much, in their quiet way, over the centuries.
Ironside 53 | 12,413
5 Oct 2021 #201
what is the problem?

The problem is they don't see themselves as Poles. I'm against the utilitarian approach to the issue.
jon357 74 | 21,999
5 Oct 2021 #202
they don't see themselves as Poles.

'They"? All of them?

The few I know certainly do.

And they all stayed here through bad times and good. They didn't bolt, unlike some.
Ironside 53 | 12,413
5 Oct 2021 #203
All of them?

Yes, all those who don't. Quit that lame leftie semantics.
jon357 74 | 21,999
5 Oct 2021 #204
Why not stop embarrassing yourself publicly.

The Romanies are a part of life here in Poland and in the wider region. You are not, by your own choice.

It's really sad that someone should start a genealogy thread while researching their Polish roots and it suddenly turns into a racist swamp, all by the usual sad, sad suspects.
amiga500 4 | 1,537
5 Oct 2021 #205
@ironside for all those that don't, there has never been any efforts to establish a polish identity for the romani. as jon stated there are many that feel polish and your exclusionary thought process does not help. . As the example of the Tatars shows, it's very possible. The overhanded communist efforts were not about making them poles but making them part of the communist working class. I bet they feel a bit more polish and part of the community after getting 500+ hah.
jon357 74 | 21,999
5 Oct 2021 #206
efforts to establish a polish identity for the romani

There was a sociological study (in I think Tarnowo or thereabouts) about non-Romany and Romany aan the study showed very little cultural common ground.

Nevertheless, the ancestors of the Romany people there have probably been there as least as long as the ancestors of the non-Romany people.

making them part of the communist working class.

Some of that certainly had limited effect, though fortunately only limited. Settled folks have been trying to tell gypsies what they should or shouldn't do for many centuries. It hasn't worked and isn't about to. People should get used to that.

youtu.be/BEiaGUesi0Y]


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