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Polish Gypsy Roots & Roma ancestors in their families


Magdalena 3 | 1,837
22 Sep 2008 #61
I had a Polish passport but I threw it on the fire.

that was at Heathrow airport, right? just before you approached the immigration officer?
mafketis 32 | 10,504
22 Sep 2008 #62
I am a gifted guitarist and singer and not bad at dancing

And so modest!

I had a Polish passport but I threw it on the fire

Are you related to a Ms Pollard by any chance?

youtube.com/watch?v=HPM4emsqwag

relevant quote at 1.27
OP Guest
19 May 2009 #63
each country got theyr own gypsies , doesn`t mean that tey are related eachoder.
at the view of the time i realised that in europe just poland,germany,uk,and sometimes russia treat gypsies well ,so i am proud to be a polish gypsy.Czechoslowakia,romania and the rest of balkans wyth france ,italy treat them like skum so the resoult - poor,dirty gypsies from their countries living in swamp.Some polish dont like us,but we polish gypsy have more polish friends than any gypsy in the europe.We are sometimes angry wyth poles but as everyone knows that is my homeland from 600 years and there is a lot of polish who are not polish for thise period of time
Calypso
8 Jun 2009 #64
There seems that there is much confusion about the gypsy line and I'd like to tell you what I know.

The gypsy people do have Indian Origins.
The gypsy people traveled and made there home with the people they surrounded themselves with, not a place or any geographical region for that matter.

Yes the ancient Roma, and modern day Romanians are what most people mainly consider Gypsy.
This is true only to an extent, many gypsy did settle in Romania, but a many other kept traveling.
Yes you did have to get permission to be married as a gypsy but this does not mean that gypsy women didn't have there infidelities. They are the same as anybody else, if they feel in love they may have laid with a man outside the tribe, thus causing a mixing of other races with the gypsy race. Beyond that others were allowed into the group if they showed loyalty, and then were allowed to marry a gypsy woman.

The tribes of Gypsy that kept traveling did happen to settle in Poland.

I have Gypsy Ancestry, from my great grandmother, she moved to America from Poland.
Everyone in my family is Polish up until my father and mother had me. I'm half Polish and I have naturally blonde hair, and pale skin.

Also as far as I know my Grandmother was never looked down upon as being Gypsy, and she never hid the Gypsy side of her.

I hope this helps some people.
johnny5
20 Aug 2009 #65
Proud of what? coming from a breed of thieves, liars. and cheaters? WOW
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,766
21 Aug 2009 #66
In Berlin the gypsy women and children get quite annoying...they harass people, beg for money, dirty, always a little one on the arm, outstretched hand thrust into the face of some unsuspecting passersby, always some abstruse story barely understandably, getting quite agressive and abusive when not satisfied etc.

And you just KNOW that the men wait and observe behind some bushes collecting the money!
They have knifes...

A plague...
Sasha 2 | 1,083
21 Aug 2009 #67
outstretched hand thrust into the face of some unsuspecting passersby

Same goes for Russia plus it's outstretched here to your pocket if you stand gaping about.
mbiernat 3 | 107
21 Aug 2009 #68
Gypsies that I observe in Poland are pretty peaceful people, they do not bother anyone, they just beg for money but besides that are pretty friendly.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
21 Aug 2009 #69
A plague...

I remember someone else from Germany with that line... :)
scrappleton - | 829
21 Aug 2009 #70
Yeah but Bratwurst didn't say anything about exterminating them.. he just finds them annoying. Different levels of disgust I'd say.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
21 Aug 2009 #71
didn't say anything about exterminating them..

given the chance...

Different levels of disgust I'd say.

huh...
cluening - | 9
23 Aug 2009 #72
Given the chance and getting better organizational means, some guys here in the forum would eagerly like to follow their predjudices. As it is anyway pretty obvious that in Poland people are largely prejudiced against gypsies and/or Jews still. (Always some Jewish conspiration going on, right?)

Luckily for the world, Poland was not even taking communism seriously (in contrast to East Germany).
So perhaps this repetition and allusion of German WWII history everywhere is kind of a hidden, subconscious admiration of their mislead consistency.
I hope that not.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
23 Aug 2009 #73
Some straight facts about Gypsies (taken from websites written by Roma organisations or ethnographers involved with the Roma people):

1) "Roma" means "human being". We are "gajo". The rules of appropriate conduct, the Romanipen, only apply to those who are truly human, therefore there is no loyalty, honesty or civility due to those outside the Roma society - the gajos.

2) The Roma consciously and consistently place themselves outside general society - by shunning education, not seeking employment, and never, or almost never, mixing with the gajos (a gajo woman marrying a Roma man is sometimes acceptable, but a Roma girl who marries a gajo becomes dead to her family and friends).

3) Inside the Roma social structure, there are two castes. Some Roma are "clean", others "unclean" - this depends on their ancestry. The clean Roma will not invite the unclean Roma to their homes or interact with them socially.

4) There is a number of occupations the Roma would never take up because this would make them unclean - including dentist, doctor, and farmer (due to contact with another's bodily fluids or cutting the body of Mother Earth); thanks to this the Roma have a lot of different excuses for not working for their living.

5) Roma women are expected to defer in everything to their menfolk, marry as young as possible, and have as many babies as possible. Most Roma girls either never go to school at all, or drop out before puberty, despite the best efforts of the education authorities to change this.

Pray tell me why many of you seem to think that I should implicitly trust, respect, and like a society built along the above lines?

I choose not to. I know a number of Gypsies and I know they can be nice to me if they think this will help them achieve their goals. But I have also seen enough to understand that they do not expect or need my approval or respect for their lifestyle any more than they would expect it from a bird hopping about in the yard. I am not an equal to them. They are simply not bovvered.

And so neither am I.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
23 Aug 2009 #74
How beautiful the world could've been if ugly sentiments would not prevail.

The thing that makes a person ugly is his/her attitude towards life and the living.

The simplest thing in the world is love. The toughest thing is to love. The rarest thing is love. The most abundant can only be love.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,766
23 Aug 2009 #75
The simplest thing in the world is love. The toughest thing is to love. The rarest thing is love. The most abundant can only be love.

Yeah...I can feel your love for me Lodz!

If there is a really sick thing it's someone pretending and preaching love and harboring hate and racist grudges against one other country anyhow.

You are worse than Crow or any other nutter on this board. They are at leat honest about themselves and their views, you instead are a hypocrite of the highest order...you fool nobody

boy!
Take your "love" and shove it!
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
23 Aug 2009 #76
Yeah...I can feel your love for me Lodz!

You are a German. :)

If there is a really sick thing it's someone pretending and preaching love and harboring hate and racist grudges against one country anyhow.

I agree. Its not the right thing.

But what can I do. When I hear 'Germany' I remember many things, many stories, a certain dear and beloved person in my family had a great grudge against Germans for very credible reasons.

Once upon a time (not too many years ago) my grandparents were friends which Germans, who turned out to be traitors, pack of murders... due to which a really deep scar remained on the heart of my grandfather, and effected the entire family. Such was the scar that I saw him turn red and angry ... furious to the highest degree whenever he would hear the very name "Germany".

But then again, I myself believe in looking forward and hatred as being a great diesease. Believe me you that I do not hate you. But for some reason I read your posts carefully to try and find that word/sentence where your aggressive self (which I involuntarily believe all Germans have) to appear and thus I can refute/fight them.

But ... I have no particular hatred for you. Actually I shouldnt have.

If I have hurt you, do pardon me. I will try not to view you as critically. Actually not to view any German as critically. Just be nice to people... and ofcourse so should I.

LTB.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,766
23 Aug 2009 #77
But what can I do. When I hear 'Germany' I remember many things, many stories, a certain dear and beloved person in my family had a great grudge against Germans for very credible reasons.

Who cares...but it would be more honest to stop your inanely blahblah about "love" and be honest to yourself and the others...

Makes you look like an idiot, a hypocritical idiot!
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
23 Aug 2009 #78
Who cares

Oh I do. Many people do. These are very 'near to heart' issues.

but it would be more honest to stop your inanely blahblah about "love" and be honest to yourself and the others...

I am always honest about my sentiments. However I have expressed my position to you already. I think now its on you to be normal or to carry on your same old stance.

Everyone has a 'not so bright' patch in attitude/sentiments. Perhaps mine needs some repair too. But I hope its not made difficult my someone difficult.
cluening - | 9
23 Aug 2009 #79
Understandable, sad story. But does it serve as an easy excuse for your general attitude then?
Does your grandfather want you to live with that anger? To generally condemn people?
Remember, there were also German people who suffered from that regime, were killed, etc.
As that there are Gypsies who do not fit into that bad picture people are drawing...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,766
23 Aug 2009 #80
And it's crap anyhow!
On another thread he burdened our board Russian Sasha with the same kind of "eternal shame" he should feel because of what is grandfathers did (or not did).

Lodz is as racist as everybody, he generalizes and hates whole peoples if it fits his bias like everybody else.
And he specializes in "collective guilt" for whole peoples and their descendants for all times (all but his own of course).

The difference is everybody else is honest about it but him. He prefers to put on a tree hugging, goody-two-shoes, I love you all - face!

Probably feeling himself all good, enlightened and high above us other poor creatures.
But he is only a hypocrite!

I just don't know to whom he lies more..to himself or to the board!

You know Lodz, when you have a gripe with ME (Bratwurst Boy), then come out and discuss it with ME like a man. Don't hide yourself behind Hitler or WWII-allusions all the time!
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
23 Aug 2009 #81
when you have a gripe with ME

I dont have any gripe with you. But yes, sometimes your comments which need a response...get responsed. Thats all. About being too critical about you, I have already said that I will reconsider.

your general attitude

How many times have you seen me go after Germans. Or start threads against Germans? Look at a post I gave to Crow:

polishforums.com/poland-politics-history-34/polish-serbian-relations-like-13254/30

Its post #1235

To generally condemn people

I didnt condemn anyone yet.

German people who suffered from that regime

Shall I show links to you of 'Love letter to Hitler" by the Germans of that Era. There are dozens of books written (and protested by Germans) of their love for their furor. However, it is not justified to equate those people with the current Germans. However, Germans should also remember the past in its rightful manner. Not that a powerful oppressed them, but that their forefather (not too distant) were themselves oppressor. Atleast the vast majority.

"eternal shame"

Just a reminder. But I think I reminded enough.

Lodz is as racist as everybody

Lodz is a human like everybody. It I would've learnt all values, gained all knowledge...to reached enlightment...then there would remain no reason for me to live. To live is to learn and constantly update oneself. Be stronger and more wise.

Bratwurst Boy

By the way, I havent said something so offensive to you yet that you would've needed to overreact this much. You just leapt on me :D

I have made my replies on this forum to comments which seemed unjustified to me. Some of them were probably yours. In future to there might be some which are yours.

And at the end. I have already told you enough. Even asked to move ahead. Now it depends on how much a gentleman are you...
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,766
23 Aug 2009 #82
You just leapt on me :D

Sorry, but you had it coming for awhile now.
Had to be said and maybe cleared the air and we can declare the plate cleaned now....

You take me as a human Bratwurst Boy being instead of a WWII-Hitler-whatever-reincarnation and I let you hug trees and gain wisdom as much as you want, deal?
southern 75 | 7,096
23 Aug 2009 #83
Yes,gypsies are quite annoying.In Athens they have a narco-region,nobody(even the police) dares to get into there,only some drug dealers.
They beg and tell fortune and do pickpocketing in railway stations.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535
23 Aug 2009 #84
You take me as a human Bratwurst Boy

I dont think I ever thought of you being something else. Only humans read and write.

WWII-Hitler-whatever-reincarnation

If that were you ... well ... you would not have been welcome.

and I let you hug trees and gain wisdom

And whats that supposed to mean?

Trees are good. So is wisdom. But not one was stopping me from doing anything.

You can say that ... lets move forward. And yes, I also think its time to move forward.

Does your grandfather want you to live with that anger?

He died long ago. He taught me many wonderful things. I dont think he would want anything negative. Perhaps his experiences were too bitter. God bless his soul and the soul of them who unfortunately tasted a bitter Europe.

I hope such a thing never happens again. Yes, we should move ahead.

Gypsies

I remember a poem I read when I was a child, regarding Gypsies. I forget the author of the poem...but it was in English I think. A very touching poem... I wish I could remember it again. All I remember is that it touched me:).
southern 75 | 7,096
23 Aug 2009 #85
rees are good. So is wisdom. But not one was stopping me from doing anything.

I cannot believe that.The German writes you are stupid and you prove him right!
Maybe you do not just hug trees,you hump trees as well.
Rakky 9 | 217
24 Aug 2009 #86
websites written by Roma organisations or ethnographers involved with the Roma people

Would you share those websites with us?
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
24 Aug 2009 #87
As I work with the Roma quite often, I spent quite some time researching them on the internet. I just typed in "Roma people", "Roma culture", stuff like that. I did quite a lot of reading in Polish and Czech though (though AFAIR the Czech site had some English translations as well). This was several months ago though. I just tried to re-create some of my paths on this search, but to no avail. I might try again later.
nicemanuk
1 Sep 2009 #88
Just be proud of what you are,, and further more, your culture is older than Europe. we had cities when Europeans were still living in caves,,, I an sure you look like an exotic princess :))
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,766
1 Sep 2009 #89
your culture is older than Europe. we had cities when Europeans were still living in caves

What happened?
jden
6 Oct 2009 #90
I am told that there is gypsy blood on my mom's side. I didn't know until many years after my grandmother had died because she had promised Grandma she wouldn't tell: Grandma was very old-school Roman Catholic and was ashamed of her ancestry. I'm not entirely sure how many generations back it goes, but it's pre-1900. My grandma's maiden name was Kanieski (spelling may be wrong.)

Total strangers have walked up to my daughter and asked her which clan she belongs to, which really stands out because we live in a small tourist town in Minnesota (U.S.A.) We would like to know which clan we are most likely descended from.


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