Why communism failed in Poland?

The problem is that Russia wanted to inherit only this what was good in USSR, in symbolic level as well (national anthem for example...). No other past soviet state do that (?)...

Because of that there is still a lot of "white stains" in Russian history books (I only heard about it, didn't see). Because of that there is for example this unnecessary obstruction regarding Katyn in Russian court.

Simply put: you cann't just take what was good and forget what was bad, and start saying around the world how tragic it was that USSR collapsed (Putin). It is simply incoherent message.


Germany... They have some pull back recently, but still they've managed with their past quite well. Personally I don't require from Russia any big moves, just this constant denial is tiring. Of course important factor here is time... to many important people in soviets era are still alive.

yes it could have been worded better " ashamed". more ..." take a realistic view".

I really hate " PC" by the way. I have just recently took up a job for local government in a Town Hall loactated in East End of London. Talk about political correctness, you can see where the country has gone wrong over the last few years.

Anyway must go it's 09:45. At 10:00 ive got to raise the Ghanian flag outside town hall to celebrate " Ghanian independance day". The mayor will also read a prescripted speech. The same speech as last weeks flag raising (can't remember country) and the week before and the week before etc etc. The only difference being the speech stays the same but the blank spaces are replaced with the relevant country.

Oh and also today is the last day of London Borough of XXXX Lesbian Gay and Transexual Month so at miday have to take down the Rainbow flag. Funny no speech from the major for that one.

Notice how I feel the need to XXXX out the boroughs name, this for a reason. Sad really, yes the country is PC mad PC ruined. We should start a thread on this, comparison of PC in Poland and UK.

coservatives are old-fashioned tight asses who spout meaningless patriotic jingoes

So long as you were a commie, of course their were commie hunts in America, much like the witch hunts.


Lithuania has everything got to do with USSR, it was part of it.
Lithuania needs to modernise but there are very definite hail marks of commie up bringing here.


A good start, is what I'd call that.


This is a discussion,
the USSR is finished.
I would like to hear more about what you were told.


From the USA you may get prejudices but people work.
My point was that people have learned not to work in communism, it is very destructive.


Nobody knows but it is better to have one enemy, rather than be attacked (not liberated ha ha ha) from both sides.



I lost your point, it sounds to me that you are writing one is as guilty as the other?.


You can't blame people for looking to the future and taking the best from what happened.
But as you said


.


I think the mixing of peoples will help this greatly.
In every conflict the politicians tell us how evil the others are, now we get to see the truth for ourselves.


It seems everyone is waiting for an apology from someone.


I actually agree with this.
The Soviets have come off far too lightly.
And if it continues, they might be seen as "liberators", which of course is not true.
Out of the frying pan into the fire.

It has not escaped my attention where the people talking about not giving apologies are from.
I also think celinski's point is not so much about an apology but about how the history books will be written? celinski?.


You should pay one cent every time you use the word Liberal :)


KGB is the official name, cough cough cough.


I don't think so, I would like to make a separation between communist state policy and the Russian people.


Could you clarify, I did not understand this.

I must be my terrible english :-)
For example (simplifacation):
USSR made Sputnik, this was great achievement, so Russians used to say: "we did that".
USSR made Gulag, this was terrible thing, Russians used to say: "it wasn't our ancestors fault, it was this evil outsiders. Stalin? Stalin was from Georgia!".

And so on.. This process lead to idealization of USSR. In that way history is rewritten.
Putin indeed said that USSR collapse was great tragedy...

So, Russians cann't expect that other nations will accept Russia as a heir apparent of USSR achivements without taking USSR faults.

check out the newest post from communist "Russia to outlaw criticism of WWII tactics".

Then why arnt we blaming Austria for WW2??
hitler was born in Austria

just wanted to fix the quote.

we are blaming all capitalist imperialist and revisionist. nationality no matta!

I understand.
Would you (any of you) see a difference between The Political ČelliteČ and the normal Russian?.
I have to say I do.
Admittedly it is not a clean or clear distinction but one I think is to be noted.


Where is that?. Can you post a link please.

I see, thanks.

It looks like there will be two histories.

Lithuania got into 'trouble' banning Soviet stuff.
They are trying to show that the U.S.S.R was terrible here.
Perhaps Poland should do the same?.

I don't think an apology is realistic from Russia but at least a realistic history is needed.

Why is it that the Commies got away with all of this while the Nazis didn't?.
This is a long question of course.

---------------------------------------------------------------------- -----------------

I have a question for the Russians on here, it is not about communism but land.
Do Russians have a special obsessiveness about land?. Just you have by far the biggest country.
Land is important to everyone but RussiaĄ come on, it is two and a half times bigger than China, it is enormous.
Just a side order question :)

Because the people were silenced. I can remember not to very long ago in the Ukraine area more bodies were found, this was like 1980. Even then the citizen that lived there would whisper behind closed door and know not to speak of this,

Why?.

One of the biggest differences I have noticed between this Polish Forums and Poland (the country ;)
Is that on PF people talk about world war two.
While in Poland people of a certain age or older talk about the commies, after all it was the last opressive invasion.

Sadly its not just Poland, my father has a hard time speaking of his past and even failed to speak of this until I was a teenager. Many don't know this but even contacting realitive in Communist Poland put the family at risk. It has not been that long that the deported families felt safe to go back to Poland. Today it is the children of the families that are speaking out for justice.

I remember hearing a radio show about an old woman talking about how she still never uses people's names when on a tram or generally in public, for fear of getting into trouble or putting someone else in it.

I actually have many accounts of this myself, a guy here in Vilnius was building something beside where I used to stay, he was on top of a wall with a hammer and chisel, banging away., I asked what he was building, he said 'I don't know'.

For quite a few people here the cold war is not over.

I do feel sorry for the elderly women who beg on the streets here, they were promised a job and a flat and now have nothing.

They were brought up completely dependant on the state and now they can not do anything for themselves.
They fell in the cracks between two very different worlds.

That is wrong in any society. When we look at the Cold war and what it was, it is still there just changed the faces.

Yes. The transition period is not going very well here, very slowly with little support or understanding.
It is changing but slowly, too slowly for these old women.


Well... I think some people have been brought up fighting, so what are they supposed to do now?.

I would like to see better relations between east and west.
I am amazed the past two years how many Russians there are travelling, it never used to be like that.

You see this also?


I think with the 70th coming up you will see a rise in the history being told.


I also see a closer tie with the Nations working as a team to help restore Poland, the people and close the gap between the ones that lost Poland and the ones that lived under communist control.

I see a difference, but I'm worried about future. That's why I'm writing about this USSR history whitenning in Russian history books. Young generation learns about history from this twisted books... Effect? youth movements like "Nasi" (ours?).

This is a great point.

Good God. PC madness. Look what Liberals have wrought.


Sounds like Obama today with his hollow calls for "unity" and "bipartisanship" which really means, "My way or STFU".


Lol... Guilty! Hey, it's not my fault they cause so many problems! Where shall I send all the pennies?

Communism kept Eastern Europe non-competitive for a few decades. It also bankrupted the country and gave a huge compliant workforce to the countries that 'won' WW2. In that sense it was successful.

This is one of the more reasonable things I've seen you post, Bubbles.

1) You are correct, responsibility falls on the guilty reguardless of country. As for the industry, they paid in blood. Russians are one of the last to take responsibility, but you are right they do not stand alone.

2)Yes, the goverment just as Germany has had to do. I feel putting older men and women behind bars serves very little and in my heart feel they have lived life times with demons that can be worse than any man made cell. It would stand as a lesson to our youth that crimes must be dealt with, least we teach the children history forgets. Accountability is what I ask for, stop the lies, Russia if you hear me , stop treating your citizens as children let them be free to speak the truth.

You say Russians suffered the highest on numbers, I say yes but at least they had a gun to defend themselves. How many Russian died due to Stalins thirst for blood. As a dictator you should look at where you are asking troops to go and what to do, the end result was due to backfire on many of his calls.

I do not say your family could have taken Stalin or Hitler for that matter, out. But my God, today to be throwing this bastard in our face, reviving him as something he was not. This is what I object to. I do not blame the Russian people of today responsible, just as I do not blame US military to the same standards. They did what they were trainned to do, and for many it cost them their life.


I am sorry, I am sorry this whole bloody war took place and so many lost their lives. I am sorry I never met my grandmother, aunts, uncle and others I never even saw picture of, not to mention a country. Today I am sorry that Russia cannot say, were sorry, Stalin was wrong.

I was talking to a Lithuanian last night about the USSR, he said that Lithuanians see the Soviets and Russians as completely different.
And that the Commies destroyed Russian culture.
Maybe that is how Lithuanians can live with so many Russians from that era?.
Do any Russians agree or disagree with this ides?.


I would think you would prefer a correct history than just an apology.

Well, there is a degree of truth to this. However, the Russian subserviant attitude is universal to both old Imperial Russia, the Soviet Union, and today's modern Russia. It is still very much alive. Even today, I speak to a lot of Russians who will just not listen to me when I try to give them my view.

I know a priest, who was once visiting the Vatican, and met a group from Russia. This was in the mid 90's. Since he knew Russian well, he tagged along, and kind of stuck behind them, listening to their tour guide.

At one point, one of the older Russian ladies couldn't handle it, and demanded he tell her who he is. All he said is, "Non Capisco."

Later he overheard them discussing him, and he heard very clearly, the man asking if he understood all that they were saying. They were so very much afraid that he was a spy! And it was 1995!

I'm afraid that is the lasting legacy of both Communist Russia, and that has been passed down from Imperial Russia.

It never did.

I didn't take roots in Poland in the first place so it couldn't have failed.
Communism failed in Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Romania etc.

According to Soviet rules Poland was in stage 1 of establishing communism, i.e. initial whack at it. The whack lasted some 50 years and then the Soviet ideology was whacked.

Don't trust ZioPedia...It is good for non-political history, for information about artists and such...In short:

Why Did Communism Fail in Poland?

Because it was an 'anti-Christ' and 'anti-human' abomination, a system run by devilish bureaucrats and parasites designed to enslave the people...But the bankers liked it, because they earned their interest and profits.

Is there any Ostalgie in Poland?People who like the good old times?