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Why communism failed in Poland?


Juche 9 | 292  
2 Mar 2009 /  #61
Enough of this let us not disgrace ourselves in polemics but unite as we throw off the chains of the capital and all workers of world will unite, replacing every single McDonald with a Palace of Culture. Then Comrades all over the earth will have less oppression of empty calories and empty talk of the franchise-building capitalist class and the culture of pure socialist thought will trickle down to all peoples like a refreshing spring
szarlotka 8 | 2,208  
2 Mar 2009 /  #62
replacing every single McDonald with a Palace of Culture

Looking promising

the culture of pure socialist thought will trickle down to all peoples like a refreshing spring

You blew it.
Juche 9 | 292  
2 Mar 2009 /  #63
There is nothing gained without struggle, somehting surely that someone who enjoys happy Meals will not comrehend - these goals and dreams of the working class seem lofty to you and not realistic, but you will see as surely as the Long March was long and worthy.
jwojcie 2 | 763  
2 Mar 2009 /  #64
WE KNOW THIS OLD JOKE EVEN IN North Korea, but it is faulty thinking

Well, I know... In fact I really like "Palace of Culture" and I'm not eating in McDonald, but...

replacing every single McDonald with a Palace of Culture

OMG! One Palace of Culture is enough!

Hm... maybe Palace of Culture wasn't the greatest architectural communist sin.
The worst was Great Plate(?) = Wielka Płyta. I think we need at least another fifty years to get rid of that....

PS. Juche, are you really from North Korea ?! Man, you have a communist masterpiece in NK, don't you?:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel

It is AWESOME ;-)
Juche 9 | 292  
2 Mar 2009 /  #65
You know this building, so good! I help build this edifice while in third and fourth and fifth year of university study for my volunteer work brigade, all my comrades from university help build we are so happy to help with projects for glory of peoples democracy! The edifice will finish soon despite logistic and supply problems caused unfair stranglehold imposed by American aggressors and their lackey puppets of South Korean Republic
jwojcie 2 | 763  
2 Mar 2009 /  #66
I help build this edifice while in third and fourth and fifth year of university

Man... I'm really hoping you are joking, but if not, that's interesting:
Have you been paid for work? I see volunteer, but anyway, have you been paid?
szarlotka 8 | 2,208  
2 Mar 2009 /  #67
The edifice will finish soon despite logistic and supply problems caused unfair stranglehold imposed by American aggressors and their lackey puppets of South Korean Republic

i.e we ran out of cash.
Juche 9 | 292  
2 Mar 2009 /  #68
our payment is satisfaction of seeing solid foundations of peoples democracy rising from ashes and forming a satisfaction for all working peoples! only scrooging capitalist bondages his workers who do not own the means of production and pays eache oppressed toiler a paltry sum for his sweat and labour
jwojcie 2 | 763  
2 Mar 2009 /  #69
You mean you have been working for free ?!? Some would called that slavery, but maybe only because it looks like Egyptian piramid...
Who do you (as a nation) plan to bury there?
sjam 2 | 541  
2 Mar 2009 /  #70
Communism failed in the eastern block, because the Soviet Union gave weapon-production top priority to an ununjustifiable degree.

Precisely put...

... and because the US as the world's richest economy could keep outspending the USSR on its own weapons development and production without damaging the rest of the US economy, in fact it had the opposite effect, defense spending was responsible for huge growth in the US economy.

Who do you (as a nation) plan to bury there?

One day... Communism :-)
jwojcie 2 | 763  
2 Mar 2009 /  #71
krakowiak:
Communism failed in the eastern block, because the Soviet Union gave weapon-production top priority to an ununjustifiable degree.
Precisely put...

Maybe... but I think that the most important is a fact that in 80' oil prices went down.
It killed USSR, because it was sources driven economy. I think Gajdar did nice article somewhere about it.

The same thing is now with Russia, but at least there is no weapon race, and they have big cash reserves. This time they will survive I think.

One day... Communism :-)

:-)
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
2 Mar 2009 /  #72
Don't forget that after WWII, Poland's infrastructure was devastated. The USSR rebuilt a lot of that.

I am in Lithuania now, drove here from Krakow and the infastructure is terrible.

And why all middle aged and old people like communism and think it was better at that time?
In fact I never met anyone to describe me a shitty life under communism.

Naw, Polish people were being used and they did not like it, I have spoken to many people about it.
There is more of a feeling in the older generation of Lithuanians of missing the false nannying of the state.
Sure there was work but nothing in the shops.
Sure there was free houseing, for those that could afford it.
Sure Mother Russia would look after you, the price was your freedom.

If you lived in one of the occupied by communist Russians, Eastern European country you would see how it really was and how the system worked.

Or more to the point Čdidn't workČ.

Communism failed in the eastern block, because the Soviet Union gave weapon-production top priority to an ununjustifiable degree. If they stopped in the 60ties at a state where they had enough IMCBs to destroy the socalled free world, they could achieve their goal to free the proletariat class from the burden of exploitation.

You coukld continue that sentence 'they could achieve their goal to free the proletariat class from the burden of exploitation and instead be exploited by someone else.

That is a supposition, you do not know that.

I help build this edifice while in third and fourth and fifth year of university study for my volunteer work brigade

I have a job for you.

I have met many people here in Lithuania whose parents were sent to Sibera for offrences, many people did not make it, horrorr stories.
Siberia always makes me think of Austrailia, in this respect, if you disbeyed the Russian commies you were sent to Sibera, If an Irish man disobayed the English Empire he was sent to Australia.

Commyunism kills individualism, in Cambodia they even killed anyone with glasses, saying they were intillectuals.
I have worked in Lithuania for many years now and I still can't get my head around some of the stupid systems in place here, left by commies.

I will write more on this laters.
Randal 1 | 577  
2 Mar 2009 /  #73
Siberia always makes me think of Austrailia, in this respect, if you disbeyed the Russian commies you were sent to Sibera

This is a good comparison. Although while one has nice sandy beaches, the other has snow. Seems one was just for ridding people while the other was intended for punishment.

Rather than continuing to fill our prisons with the violent, anti-social scum, perhaps we need a new Siberia? Maybe Antarctica?
Harry  
2 Mar 2009 /  #74
PS. Juche, are you really from North Korea ?! Man, you have a communist masterpiece in NK, don't you?:

Given the number of people in DPRK who have access to the internet, I would say it is very very unlikely that he is from there.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
2 Mar 2009 /  #75
You are our resident Polak-hater and genius. Congratulaions.
Trevek 26 | 1,702  
2 Mar 2009 /  #76
If an Irish man disobayed the English Empire he was sent to Australia.

Not just the Irish. It was standard thing in Britain too. Never heard of the Tolpuddle Martyrs who were transported for swearing an oath to form a trade union?
szarlotka 8 | 2,208  
2 Mar 2009 /  #77
It was standard thing in Britain too

There used to be a sign on a bridge over the River Stour in Dorset at a place called Longham that told you that if you damaged the bridge you would be deported to Oz. I think it said something to the effect that sheep worrying was a bit of a no no as well.
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
2 Mar 2009 /  #78
Contrary to what some may believe, the lack of freedom of speech, invigilation, secret police and stuff like that, weren't the biggest worries of a statistical Pole in the pre-1989 times. It was certainly an issue for intelligentsia, but a statistical Pole was willing to sacrifice his personal freedoms as long as he was able to put something on his plate and have a decent living standard. The reason why communism failed in Poland, and probably in most countries from the former eastern block, was because communist party failed to fulfill those two conditions.

Poznań 56'

The first protest against communist regime - "We want bread" - Poznań 1956
OP southern 75 | 7,096  
2 Mar 2009 /  #79
Exactly because according to the marxist mathematical relation,the communists sacrificed the production of consumer goods to achieve boost in the production of industrial means for mass production.And arms as well.

They could save their regime by keeping living standards through borrowing money from the West but this had as result to accumulate huge debts.
Czarnobog - | 33  
3 Mar 2009 /  #80
It's not a question of communism failing in Poland; it's a question of the Polish people being ready for communism. The backwardness of the peasants, the Western-looking intellectuals, the demoralized urban classes, the destroyed infrastructure spelled the defeat of that system before it could even take root. The social conditions were not right for communism in Poland.

When Marx spoke of communism he meant it for the developed, industrial nations like France and England. It was never his aim to advocate it for peasant societies like Russia or Cuba. It is, however, in those societies that capitalist oppression was more easily seen. For Marx, however, a society had to undergo capitalist development before it could arrive at socialism. It's interesting that his socio-historical insights are accurate in that regard (all of those countries that wanted to skip this stage of development are now forced to go back to it).

Of course the way the Bolsheviks went about it was all wrong. They actually defeated workers' uprisings and forced the Soviets (the real revolutionary organs of participatory democracy and economic planning to submit to the state). Lenin's NEP actually allowed for some private enterprise. There were many communist revolutionaries who were disappointed with such arrangements, calling Russia a state capitalist country.

So, did Poland even really experience something like communism? This is another question. It's worth pointing out that the USSR called itself two things: socialist and democratic. The latter claim was always contested by Western intellectuals, but not the former. Why? There is enough literature to suggest that Russia was not a communist society by communist standards, but it is a good propaganda tool to be able to point to the USSR and say, 'that's communism.'
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
3 Mar 2009 /  #81
Poles were not ready for a system of Jewish tyranny.
Czarnobog - | 33  
3 Mar 2009 /  #82
That's word for word Nazi propaganda.

Can you provide some evidence for this claim? From my studies there were certainly many prominent Jewish communists (Marx, Trotsky, etc), but there were more non-Jews who were its active theoreticians and activists.

For anyone interested in the history of the Jewish Bolshevism accusations, Wikipedia has some good info: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism
Warsaw8 4 | 126  
3 Mar 2009 /  #83
That's word for word Nazi propaganda.

Why is it that someone is always labeled when they speak out against the jews or their Ideals? And is it a Fact, that what Joe said is Nazi propaganda? And just so you know, Joe is a Polish Nationalist, not a National Socialist, so calling him a nazi gets you no where fast.

From my studies there were certainly many prominent Jewish communists (Marx, Trotsky, etc), but there were more non-Jews who were its active theoreticians and activists.

Is that Ethnic Jews or Converted Religous Jews?

For anyone interested in the history of the Jewish Bolshevism accusations, Wikipedia has some good info

The problem I have with Wiki is that it can be edited, and by who? Is always the question. Ill let Joe verify it though...

EDIT- And great post Joe!
Juche 9 | 292  
3 Mar 2009 /  #84
It was standard thing in Britain too. Never heard of the Tolpuddle Martyrs who were transported for swearing an oath to form a trade union?

very good! you have pointed correctly that also the western puppet master is also responsible and guilty of killing individualism. and mass advertising does not kill individualism or does it propogate that the masses consume without thinking? and dare you not criticise our hotel in Pyongyang, would you like to compare Warsaw metro with Pyongyang metro? How is your Warsaw metro? Very good? I think not!!! One line only, very incomplete - look at metro built by socialist engineers in Pyongyang!
1jola 14 | 1,879  
3 Mar 2009 /  #85
We should also compare our food shops, Juche. How was the edible grass harvest last year?
jwojcie 2 | 763  
3 Mar 2009 /  #86
look at metro built by socialist engineers in Pyongyang!

Hm.. Warsaw has one line but this line has more stations that yours two combined :-)
This red line is metro:

Warsaw lines

In fact neither of this two cities can be proud of their metro net :-) Fifty years of communism.... It is not like during communism nothing is build... The problem is that much less usable things is build because of misallocation of resources. Juche think about this big hotel of yours? Wasn't it a waste? so many years for what? Some concrete skyrocket? You could build third metro line instead...
Juche 9 | 292  
3 Mar 2009 /  #87
We will be laughing at the commune when your usurous banking systems fail completely and you have no money to pay for your fancy mobile phone services, then you will be forced to mobilise into disciplined cadres and march to drill music and you will see wisdom of our system
jwojcie 2 | 763  
3 Mar 2009 /  #88
Ok Juche, I surrender...

march to drill music

?
Maybe some good czech humour could help you, any Czech on forum?
I think you should read "Adventures of good soldier szwejk"... It would give you an idea what I think about "march to drill music"...
Randal 1 | 577  
3 Mar 2009 /  #89
who were transported for swearing an oath to form a trade union

They should be sent away. Bully labor unions have caused imeasurable harm to America.

For Marx, however, a society had to undergo capitalist development before it could arrive at socialism. It's interesting that his socio-historical insights are accurate in that regard

This is where America is now.
Juche 9 | 292  
3 Mar 2009 /  #90
it is imperative for proletarian class of workers to combine strength and raise clenched fists against the treachery of capitalist-imperialist puppet masters

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