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Why communism failed in Poland?


celinski 31 | 1,258  
5 Mar 2009 /  #121
What I don't undertand is .....the Russian folk I know refuse to talk or even accept things that have happened in thier recent history. It is as if somthing like " If we don't like the truth then forget the truth and it will go away". For some reason is seems uncomfortable to look at reality. Reality being basic facts relating to history which are laid on the table and you can't change. I would be interested in your opinion on this.

It is because they never had to. Communism would not let the people speak. My beef is more with the Goverment and the way they lie to their own people. I know Russian Americans that look at the bs the Soviet opps Russian Goverment tells the people today and it's no wonder the description of Russian's is childlike. They are treated like children and spoon fed what has been said under Soviet dictatorship. It will not work this time as I see Russian citizens looking at their own powers and saying no, 2 + 2 does not =3.

When you look at the UK history and the Commenwealth this is a part of our history where we should feel ashamed about our past

They did what a military was told to do. Shame for what was done or was not that should have, comes from the commander and chief.
Randal 1 | 577  
5 Mar 2009 /  #122
what complete utter pc bollocks.

You can say that again. Why are some people so hung up on the distant past -that they had no part of- so as to feel guilt and shame today? Absurd.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
5 Mar 2009 /  #123
When you look at the UK history and the Commenwealth this is a part of our history where we should feel ashamed about our past

I disagree. The people who feel guilty tend to be middle class English people who get hung up on political correctness. I remember listening to a Radio 4 series (how middle class is that!?) in which the commonwealth and legacy of empire was discussed by people from all parts of the world concerned. Those who looked at the empire most positively tended to be Indians and even Africans. They accepted that there was unfairness, brutality and so on, but that where it now leaves them is with good connections with the English-speaking world, of which most of these countries can be considered a part.

One Indian commentator drew parallels with previous invaders of the Indian subcontinent, such as the Mongols. After some time, the Indians are left with the things that they want and appreciate about their former invaders or oppressors, yet still remain undeniably and unchangeably Indian.

In the UK, in the news and in current affairs, the word "commonwealth" is actually quite a turn-off when compared to talking about America or Europe.

That is the opposite of the European view of Russia and its empires (including the USSR). Former "members" still wish they could see the back of the whole thing just a little more than they already can (see discussions about Russia's power over Europe today). The time comes with any such turn of history, to move on and get on with paving a future with what is available rather than living life dwelling on what could have been, if only...
celinski 31 | 1,258  
5 Mar 2009 /  #124
The time comes with any such turn of history, to move on and get on with paving a future with what is available rather than living life dwelling on what could have been, if only...

In order to have a good road the foundation must be secure and built on trust. No one will ever trust Russia until the past is dealt with, including their own. Build on substandard ground ther first frost will show the sink holes I say.

Not to mention how long do you think the victims should wait for an apology.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
5 Mar 2009 /  #125
You don't have to trust Russia. It's probably better not to. The foundations are NOW, paving the way is NOW, even the future is NOW. Maybe it's time to dismount the history-horse and get onto the ride into the future. We all like an apology, but one could wait forever for an apology when one could be doing something constructive instead. Wouldn't you rather spend your time on PF talking about Polish recipes, Polish sayings, Polish language and Polish whatever-else?
celinski 31 | 1,258  
5 Mar 2009 /  #126
Wouldn't you rather spend your time on PF talking about Polish recipes, Polish sayings, Polish language and Polish whatever-else?

nope.;)
osiol 55 | 3,922  
5 Mar 2009 /  #127
Life must be like a scratched record. Life must be like a scratched record. Life must be like a scratched record. Life must be like a scratched record. Life must be like a scratched record. Life must be like a scratched record. Life must be like a scratched record. Life must be like a scratched record. Life must be like a scratched record. Life must be like a scratched record. Life must be like a scratched record. Life must be like a scratched record.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
5 Mar 2009 /  #128
Not at all, not at all, not at all.....
time means 5 | 1,309  
5 Mar 2009 /  #129
You can say that again. Why are some people so hung up on the distant past -that they had no part of- so as to feel guilt and shame today? Absurd.

absurb indeed.

it seems some people must live in fluffy,cuddly bunny land.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
5 Mar 2009 /  #130
absurb indeed.

Killing peoples family I would not concider absurd, and today to want the ones Glorifying past Soviets actions. Do I want to see them feel shame. Yes, shame is an understatement, look at what Germany has been put through. News flash, NKVD was just as bad as Nazis, if not worse yet the Jewish can get the Pope to his knees should someone question the Holocaust. Who was fighting in the NKVD, Jewish. What did Jewish want, "anti-Semitism" it got them Israel. If Jewish can point at Nazis and now Soviets, Ukraianians what makes you think Poland has no right to set the history right. If you are guilty of a crime this horrific you cannot deny forever. Alter history books, lie to your people, hail Stalin but the truth is still the truth and the ones continuing to lie look rather sad.
Randal 1 | 577  
5 Mar 2009 /  #131
Any therapist worth their salt would tell them that assuming guilt and shame for events long ago which they had no part in -and even projecting that guilt and shame onto others- well, they’ve got a screw loose and it’s time for some serious psycho therapy and maybe meds. Lol…
time means 5 | 1,309  
5 Mar 2009 /  #132
that they had no part of- so as to feel guilt and shame today? Absurd.

fao celinski.

do i feel shame, no. should i feel shame no.
Randal 1 | 577  
5 Mar 2009 /  #133
I’m not into any Holocaust denial or any freako thing like that, but for someone to be sent to jail today for simply saying it didn’t happen back then, this is insane. That’s like kindergarten stuff, dictating what people can and cannot say because someone might get their fragile wittle feelings hurt. Political Correctness run amok.

Liberals need to STFU and let it all go. Holocaust, slavery, colonialism, Apartheid... all of it.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
5 Mar 2009 /  #134
Glorifying past Soviets actions

projecting that guilt and shame onto others

Well then shame on you. We are talking about the behavior of this goverment today. One thing to silence the victims in the past with death threats, no more this is 2009.

and even projecting that guilt and shame onto others

Guess they should have thought of that before reviving the past.

"Holocaust, slavery, colonialism... all of it."

How about none of the above, Polish Catholic victims of Soviets are not in the Holocaust. Poland was attacked and lost a country to communisn. Yet God Forgive we not appreciating Stalins return, what were we thinking,.
osiol 55 | 3,922  
5 Mar 2009 /  #135
Liberals need to STFU and let it all go.

Prohibition of "holocaust denial" is not liberal.
time means 5 | 1,309  
5 Mar 2009 /  #136
off topic my fluffy bunnies
Randal 1 | 577  
5 Mar 2009 /  #137
slavery, colonialism, Apartheid... all of it.

Liberals are the scolds who feel guilt about the past and try to make everyone share their guilt and shame.

off topic my fluffy bunnies

LMAO!
OP southern 75 | 7,096  
5 Mar 2009 /  #138
Yet God Forgive we not appreciating Stalins return, what were we thinking,.

In my opinion it is unlikely that he returns.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
5 Mar 2009 /  #139
off topic my fluffy bunnies

Communism failed because Stalin was a brutal dictator that killed for the sake of killing, his own included. There is that on topic enough.
time means 5 | 1,309  
5 Mar 2009 /  #140
a good point and back to topic fluffinski ( only joking)

communism didn`t fall when stalin died though.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
5 Mar 2009 /  #141
communism didn`t fall when stalin died though.

No but have you seen Putins new and improved school books and how everything the Soviets did they had a right, even if they had to make up a story?

lol fluffinski
OP southern 75 | 7,096  
5 Mar 2009 /  #142
communism didn`t fall when stalin died though.

It fell when comrade Brezniev died.
celinski 31 | 1,258  
5 Mar 2009 /  #143
IMHO Russia is still run by Communist Putin and his croonies.

fluffinski

It's not fluff, it's feathers.
OP southern 75 | 7,096  
5 Mar 2009 /  #144
IMHO Russia is still run by Communist Putin and his croonies

Yieltsin was actually a mega communist in his youth.
Randal 1 | 577  
6 Mar 2009 /  #145
how everything the Soviets did they had a right, even if they had to make up a story

This is how our Liberals implement much of their agenda today. Most things they decide they want they manufacture a “right” in an attempt to justify it.

Liberals are modern Commies.
HatefulBunch397 - | 658  
6 Mar 2009 /  #146
Well, then, how do you explain the Bush expenditure and the sucky economy? You are just putting different labels on the same bs.
Randal 1 | 577  
6 Mar 2009 /  #149
I was talking about Lib underhanded methods of implementation.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
6 Mar 2009 /  #150
IMHO Russia is still run by Communist Putin and his croonies.

That by no means correct to call him a commie. He found himself as probably "sovereign democrat" but that's only the veil.

As for taking responsibility... pls answer some of mine questions:

1) Countries like Ukraine and Baltic States consider themselves immediate heir of all industry built on their territory by the USSR enthusiastically look for the so-called "Party's gold" but under no circumstances they ever share the guilt or either take any responsibility upon themselves. "Russians are the only guilty party" they say.

2) Everyone likes to name nations suffered from "Russians" so that sometimes they are about to name he Papuans among those. But how about Russians themselves? Who do you wanna take a responsibility? The government? Ok... I agree... but I can't recall any country that recently has taken any responsibility of anything thus something tells me that Russia would be the only country, that admitted bygone sins. Maybe Russians? Then it's ridiculous since they suffered most of all. Almost every family has a member who was killed or anything else y commies (including mine)... so you want me to take responsibility for that my Grandpa hadn't killed stalin and (or) lenin in their childhood before they killed him?

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