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Why communism failed in Poland?


SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
28 Feb 2009 /  #31
Communism was created and spearheaded by 'Atheistic Jewish Utopians'

What are you talking about?.
Have you any thing to back up these statements?.

Please read historical sources...The information is readily available...If you want individual tutorial sessions from me, we can arrange that, but there will be a charge.

Worst excuse EVER.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
28 Feb 2009 /  #32
Another obvious reason was resistance. How much longer could people accept the long queues, the lack of freedom of movement and the lies?

Poland had to catch up with the West. Intellectual freedom, a free market economy and the chance to enter international organisations were all pivotal and crucial.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
28 Feb 2009 /  #33
1jola:
Poland provided exactly what it was to provide - a huge amount of food products, steel, coal, ships, etc. for the Soviets.

southern:
The point is that after the collapse the products which Poland provided were of no demand in the West,while the soviet raw materials which SU provided to Poland became highly popular in the West.

Somehow you think you are making a point here. What is it?
OP southern 75 | 7,096  
28 Feb 2009 /  #34
What is it?

That probably Soviet Union subsidized all eastern block countries with profits from oil.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
1 Mar 2009 /  #35
Worst excuse EVER.

No excuse...You are a 'Gold Card' member...Then you have some money...If you want the fruits of my study for free, forget it...And you are lazy minded...I have laid out two years of posts here, with detailed information on topics such as 'communism', with many sources included...Look them up...Or simply use Google...The origins, history and tyranny of communism is docummented to a voluminous degree...Or you could read books.
1jola 14 | 1,879  
1 Mar 2009 /  #36
That probably Soviet Union subsidized all eastern block countries with profits from oil.

That is the bullshit they were feeding the Soviet people as I said before. They weren't subsidizing, they were exploiting.

There were huge food shortages, you couldn't buy basic appliances, clothing, cars, yet you said everyone was working and there was no unemployment. Where was all that stuff going? Now, we don't have that "subsidy" and there are goods golore. Are you still at the homo sovieticus stage?
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
1 Mar 2009 /  #37
No excuse...You are a 'Gold Card' member...Then you have some money...If you want the fruits of my study for free, forget it...

If you really believed your statements you would not be selling your "special information".

I have laid out two years of posts here, with detailed information on topics such as 'communism', with many sources included...Look them up...Or simply use Google...The origins, history and tyranny of communism is docummented to a voluminous degree...Or you could read books.

But where are the Atheistic Jewish Utopians who created and spearheaded this tyranny of communism?.
I am not going to waste my time looking up your posts.
By what you have just posted it is clear that you are just stirring shot and in need of a dollar, two years you have been posting and you couldn't get 50$ together?, Jeez man that's sad.

If you can't back up your statements then why bother making allegations.
Funny thing is I have read some of your other posts a while back and quite enjoyed them, ah well.
mephias 11 | 304  
1 Mar 2009 /  #38
I agree with SeanBM, communism is against to human nature.

I've attended projects in three former soviet union countries. Local employee's were really brilliant and clever guys but there was always same problem, they never wanted to take responsibility on any issue and They weren't hard working.

I think it's side effect of communism. In communist system they already have a job and they don't need to do something to keep it or they don't have any chance to go up. So best thing is just hanging around.

I hope it's different in Poland.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
1 Mar 2009 /  #39
I think it's side effect of communism. In communist system they already have a job and they don't need to do something to keep it or they don't have any chance to go up. So best thing is just hanging around.

I live in Poland and work here and Lithuania.
There is a big difference between Poland and Lithuania.
Lithuania was part of the U.S.S.R (Soviet Union), they looked at Poland as the Free West.
Even today i can see a huge difference between Poland and Lithuania.
It will take Lithuania many years to get out of this mentality you described.
Poland is light years a head.

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Edited: Quoted text was removed to random chat.
Czarnobog - | 33  
1 Mar 2009 /  #40
they were feeding the Soviet people

Don't forget that after WWII, Poland's infrastructure was devastated. The USSR rebuilt a lot of that. The early period of Soviet takeover implemented a plan that called for accelerated development of heavy industry. Under Soviet rule, Poland was in fact spending too much on industrialization.

Maybe that's not something one should mention, but there were important developments that took place during that time that make Poland the place it is today.

Also, don't forget that a lot of other things worked much better than they do in the West: universal health care, guaranteed employment, free tuition, woman's rights. These were some very important lessons for the West, which sought to implement some of these "social programs" into its Keynesian Welfare State. They did this to quell working class struggle in America, when communism was seen as a real threat.
Trevek 26 | 1,702  
1 Mar 2009 /  #41
I'd suggest part of the "problem" was that unlike places like Russia and Cuba, where there was a revolution, Poland didn't have a revolution. Inter-war Poland was not in the kind of situation which inspired revolutions as in Russia. It had Communism forced on it through conquest.

Probably the fact it was Russian communism didn't endear it people either. Even Stalin famously said that introducing Communism to Poland would be like putting a saddle on a pig.

Secondly, I'd suggest that internal squabbles amongst the party prevented necessary social reforms being made and resulted in hard-line tactics of oppression being used repeatedly to enforce crumbling regimes (each leader seemed to repeat the mistakes of the past ones). The failure to create a decent farming policy probably didn't help either.
Randal 1 | 577  
1 Mar 2009 /  #42
I'd suggest part of the "problem" was that unlike places like Russia and Cuba, where there was a revolution, Poland didn't have a revolution. Inter-war Poland was not in the kind of situation which inspired revolutions as in Russia. It had Communism forced on it through conquest.

Very good point. Indeed, unlike others, the Polanders didn’t seek nor willfully embrace Communism.
This is why it failed in Poland.
OP southern 75 | 7,096  
1 Mar 2009 /  #43
, unlike others, the Polanders didn’t seek nor willfully embrace Communism.
This is why it failed in Poland.

Member
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Joined: Feb 14, 09

So you think,it had better results in Czech Republic where people voted for communist party in 1948.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Mar 2009 /  #44
More than likely southern. Who wants an imposed ideology? The Poles saw it as something new but soon learned of its shortcomings.
Randal 1 | 577  
2 Mar 2009 /  #45
So you think,it had better results in Czech Republic where people voted for communist party in 1948.

I don’t pretend to be an expert on this topic and certainly not about the Czechs. I only agreed with Trevek because he was right. And apart from Commieism being a failure of an ideology, that Poland didn’t ask for it nor want it is indeed why it failed in Poland while it has survived in other places. And this is the topic of this thread.
OP southern 75 | 7,096  
2 Mar 2009 /  #46
I think communism worked better in Czech Republic.A visit can convince you.There was too much reaction in Poland.
And why all middle aged and old people like communism and think it was better at that time?
In fact I never met anyone to describe me a shitty life under communism.
plk123 8 | 4,148  
2 Mar 2009 /  #47
So you assert that the USSR just pumped out resources from Poland? :)

sure did.

True
:)

you're smoking crack

The point is that after the collapse the products which Poland provided were of no demand in the West,while the soviet raw materials which SU provided to Poland became highly popular in the West.

u missed the point completely, sorry. try again.

Communism is failing the U.S. as we speak.

no, what has failed the us is 20years of the dumbest idea ever. did it ever trickle down to you? yeah.... this pushed the USA towards communism and seems no one really cares.. interesting stuff. for sure.

There is no 'ideal' ideology, LOL

actually, aren't they all ideal?

Please read historical sources...The information is readily available...If you want individual tutorial sessions from me, we can arrange that, but there will be a charge.

i think you need to prove your point otherwise it's just another fart in the wind.
OP southern 75 | 7,096  
2 Mar 2009 /  #48
Actually which polish products were of interest for the West?The Czechs produced the Skodas,the Plzner Urquell,they had the tourism,so they could be better adjusted.The Soviets had the oil and the natural gas.So they might have thought:Why support the failed economies?Better keep and sell our gas for ourselves.

I suspect this is exactly what the wetsern capitalists promised to the soviet buearocrats.
plk123 8 | 4,148  
2 Mar 2009 /  #49
What is it?

lol

Soviet Union subsidized

there is a "was" missing in there.

No excuse...

fail... see what i said to you above..

The USSR rebuilt a lot of that.

wow

It had Communism forced on it through conquest.

betrayal is what it was.. there was no conquest.. may want to crack a history book.

The failure to create a decent farming policy probably didn't help either.

the collectives was a farming policy.. we collected for them/you.

Who wants an imposed ideology?

In fact I never met anyone to describe me a shitty life under communism.

you definitely need to get out more then.
OP southern 75 | 7,096  
2 Mar 2009 /  #50
you definitely need to get out more then.

Believe me,I have talked to people from Poland,Czech Republic,Russia,Ukraine and Romania and nobody even the Romanians who had Causesku described me communism as bad.Everyone said the same:That life under communism was easier and better.And eastern german girl saying the same though adding this was not good because there was lot of oppresion.
plk123 8 | 4,148  
2 Mar 2009 /  #51
easier under oppression? see.. there is your clue.. it was that ingrained.
asik 2 | 220  
2 Mar 2009 /  #52
I think communism worked better in Czech Republic.A visit can convince you.

If you lived in one of the occupied by communist Russians, Eastern European country you would see how it really was and how the system worked.

Believe me,I have talked to people from Poland,Czech Republic,Russia,Ukraine and Romania and nobody even the Romanians who had Causesku described me communism as bad.Everyone said the same:That life under communism was easier and better.And eastern german girl saying the same though adding this was not good because there was lot of oppresion.

Most of the people had no comparison of how their life would look like if they lived in a free, unoccupied country, that's why they couldn't see the difference and told you what they learn at school, or work, or at home (if parents were commies).

The truth is Eastern European countries were occupied for tens of years by commie Russians and no-one tried to stop that. People were brainwashed.
Today, I often think ,where were the human rights organisations in those times.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
2 Mar 2009 /  #53
sure did.

I don't think everything was so black&white as you're trying to see it.

you're smoking crack

I smoke nothing. You didn't get my irony there.
Trevek 26 | 1,702  
2 Mar 2009 /  #54
It had Communism forced on it through conquest.
betrayal is what it was.. there was no conquest.. may want to crack a history book
.

Urrm, have cracked a few. If you want to argue semantics then lets say it was imposed through invasion and external imposition, rather than internally generated.

the collectives was a farming policy.. we collected for them/you.


Yes, but the farmers who owned private land were never given a coherent policy or allowed to develop. They weren't given access to credit or the ability to buy decent equipment. That's why they are in such a cr@p state now.
Juche 9 | 292  
2 Mar 2009 /  #55
I think communism worked better in Czech Republic.A visit can convince you.

Czech Republic was more advanced in industry thus better prepared for rule of the proletariat. Countries such as Poland and Romania were basically agrarian before The Great Patriotic War (called WWII by the capitalist war monger) and that is why putting Communism there was like Comrade Stalin said, putting a saddle on a cow.
jwojcie 2 | 763  
2 Mar 2009 /  #56
The problem with communism is, that everywhere it was introduced with some military power and everywhere there is/was some kind of dictatorship. From ancient times, every dictatorship fails sooner or later. There is no long term stability without freedom.

Communism in Poland failed because it was introduced by Soviets = external dictatorship.
When soviets failed, their puppets in Poland failed too.

Don't forget that after WWII, Poland's infrastructure was devastated. The USSR rebuilt a lot of that.

Man, what a bullshit... The only things USSR built in Poland was "Palace of Culture" and military bases... Yes, Poland was devastated, but Poles rebuilt it, nobody else...

Ok, Poland got part of Germany, and lost territory on the east, but before Poland got it, Russians took away every single screw from factories there. Wroclaw (Brezlau) in 1945 was a desert in very essence of this world.

That probably Soviet Union subsidized all eastern block countries with profits from oil.

Hm... where have you been between 1989 - 2000? During this period Russia had even bigger problems than Poland, Czechs, Hungary... It is obviously quite contrary to your statement

and that is why putting Communism there was like Comrade Stalin said, putting a saddle on a cow.

what can you say then about even more agrarian Russia in 1917? :-)
Juche 9 | 292  
2 Mar 2009 /  #57
Man, what a bullshit... The only things USSR built in Poland was "Palace of Culture" and military bases.

Brotherly support from USSR built your electrfied rail netowork, without what you would still be chugging along in staeam engines. Socialist engineering built your steel mills and chemicals facotries, whithout which you would be rely on picking potato crop only.

Also, it is well known throughout socialist world that famous lucky Palace of Culture and Science is true socialist realistic masterpiece, the most beautiful edifice in all Warsaw.
jwojcie 2 | 763  
2 Mar 2009 /  #58
Brotherly support from USSR built your electrfied rail netowork, without what you would still be chugging along in staeam engines. Socialist engineering built your steel mills and chemicals facotries, whithout which you would be rely on picking potato crop only.

Where did find these revelations? Only because Poles were ruled by communists doesn't mean, that everything Poles build in Poland between 1945-1989, counts as "brotherly support". And yes, there were some Soviets on contracts in Poland, but there were also Poles on contracts in USSR. Usually it wasn't for free...

Also, it is well known throughout socialist world that famous lucky Palace of Culture and Science is true socialist realistic masterpiece, the most beautiful edifice in all Warsaw.

Well, this palace is not so bad, there is nice view from a top, if you know what I mean ;-)
Juche 9 | 292  
2 Mar 2009 /  #59
Well, this palace is not so bad, there is nice view from a top, if you know what I mean ;-)

WE KNOW THIS OLD JOKE EVEN IN North Korea, but it is faulty thinking: there are plenty uglier edifices built by the capitalist puppet masters. Many examples of this hideous style - McDonalds resteraunts for example blighting cities all over the earth. Is this more beutiful than a Palace of Culture? Even a revisionist running dog such as yourself will answer that no!!
krakowiak  
2 Mar 2009 /  #60
Communism failed in the eastern block, because the Soviet Union gave weapon-production top priority to an ununjustifiable degree. If they stopped in the 60ties at a state where they had enough IMCBs to destroy the socalled free world, they could achieve their goal to free the proletariat class from the burden of exploitation. But the race in more formidable weapondesign was also taken up by the west, and after Reagen desired to shoot Soviet nukes in the space, Gorbatchev saw no other option as to give up the race.

But as Fidel Castro stated, Gorbatchev should have never given in to such many demands, so rightfully, he was named "The idiot of the century."

In Poland additionally there existed an antipathy for everything Russian, as socialism was enforced upon our country Poles were keen to work against the authorities.

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