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Polish drink-driving murderer sentenced to 5.5 years in prison


delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
26 May 2017 #1
Poland has a severe problem with drink driving, and it seems that one of the most successful Polish exports is exporting the problem abroad too.

leinsterleader.ie/news/home/249687/breaking-damien-klasinski-sentenced-for-causing-death-of-kildare-cllr-willie-crowley.html

Damien Klasinski, who mowed down a fine outstanding member of the Kildare County Council in Ireland, was sentenced to 5.5 years in prison for this horrific act. Damien was no stranger to the long arm of the law, as he had 13 previous convictions for driving offences in 2015, including drink driving and driving without insurance. When he chopped down the fine Irish councillor, he was also breaking the speed limit and driving in an inappropriate manner for the conditions.
jon357 67 | 16,807
26 May 2017 #2
This one is disturbing too. Hard to imagine that none of the people at his sisters house stopped him, and sad that they just let him drive away without calling the police:

A Polish man who drove whilst almost six times over the alcohol limit has been jailed for what a magistrate described as a "reckless disregard for life bordering on the suicidal".

telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/7158087/Drink-driving-Polish-man-caught-six-times-over-legal-limit-was-suicidal.html

This one, back in Poland and well publicised at the time is awful, the crowd of gawkers watching the aftermath doesn't help: mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/horrifying-video-shows-moment-drunk-6843807
Harry
26 May 2017 #3
one of the most successful Polish exports is exporting the problem abroad

From the completely nationalist point of view, it was a success. Those criminals are no longer on Polish roads and they are (unless they visit Poland, which outstanding warrants should help to stop) not going to be killing or maiming people here in our county. Hard to argue that isn't a success for Poland. I think I remember reading a study about Poles in the US being far more likely than average to be convicted of DUI and DWI, I'll see if I can dig it up.
Bieganski 17 | 896
26 May 2017 #4
Another skewed hit piece to mischaracterize Poles.

This one case barely registers when looking at drink-driving statistics published by Ireland's Road Safety Authority:

150 drivers are arrested each week on suspicion of driving under the influence. 8,063 drivers were arrested in 2016 for driving while intoxicated...983 fatal collisions occurred on Irish roads between 2008 and 2012, claiming the lives of 1,077 people.

Source: rsa.ie/en/RSA/Road-Safety/Campaigns/Current-road-safety-campaigns/Drink-Driving--Fast-Facts-
Were all these arrests Poles residing in Ireland? No, they were not.

Ireland like all Western countries has a long history of alcoholism.

Father Jack Hackett in the Father Ted comedy series wasn't based on a Polish character:

So how shameful that a misanthropic recluse from Britain (with its own deeply established binge drinking culture with thousands killed and injured every year in drink-driving accidents and tens of thousands more convicted of drink-driving offenses) would spread lies that alcoholism is one of Poland's most successful exports.
Atch 16 | 3,319
26 May 2017 #5
It's not so much alcoholism Bieggers but people having a normal drink in the pub, feeling fine and not realising that they're over the limit. The stats you give regarding accidetnts are not all alcohol related remember. The figure for that is 38% of the total you quote and included pedestrians who basically walked out in front of a car because they themselves were drunk. It's still a high figure though even at 38% and needs to come down. Also sentencing needs to be much harsher on those found guilty of causing a fatality.
Harry
26 May 2017 #6
Does anybody happen to have any statistics about the number of Poles caught drink driving? I see that in 2013 162,090 drivers were stopped over the alcohol limit. In 2012 it was 171,020 drivers and in 2011 183,488. But when we compare that to the number Bieggers has helpfully provided above, we can see that the problem here is much worse than in Ireland: 8,063 from a population of 4.3 million there and 162,090 for a population of 38.6 million here, meaning that Poland has a population nine times that of Ireland but has more than twenty times as many drunks driving.

Britain (with its own deeply established binge drinking culture with thousands killed and injured every year in drink-driving accidents and tens of thousands more convicted of drink-driving offenses)

Thanks for bringing the UK into the discussion. In the UK in 2015 there were 42,587 convictions for drink driving, from a population of 65.1 million. That means while the UK has 169% of the population of Poland, it has only 26% as many drunks driving.

I suppose the interesting thing would be to compare UK drink driving figures before and after millions of Poles moved to the rest of the EU. Does anybody know where those might be found? Sadly I don't think the DVLA releases statistics broken down into convictions by nationality.
Bieganski 17 | 896
26 May 2017 #7
Thanks for bringing the UK into the discussion.

Yes, indeed. Even the UK government acknowledges that Poland has a much tougher stance on this issue:

The drink-drive limit in Poland is 20 milligrammes of alcohol per 100 millilitres of blood - which is lower than in England, Wales and Northern Ireland (80milligrammes) and Scotland (50milligrammes).

Source: gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/poland/local-laws-and-customs

Boozy Britain has to have higher thresholds because its population is so awash in alcohol that if it brought its limits in line with Poland the UK courts and prisons would be simply overwhelmed.
jon357 67 | 16,807
26 May 2017 #8
Poland has a much tougher stance on this issue:

Evidently they need to, given the sheer scale of it here in Poland and among Poles in general.
Harry
26 May 2017 #9
Even the UK government acknowledges that Poland has a much tougher stance on this issue:

The government can have as tough a stance as it wants, Bieggers, the problem is that the message isn't getting through to millions of Poles. Still, at least the worst of them leave our fine country and move to western Europe. Perhaps we could send a few of them to your country too, Bieggers? That would help make Poland an even better place. I can see the adverts in the paper now: "If you're caught drink-driving, you're going to prison and then you're getting a one-way ticket to Chicago". That would solve a lot of problems here.
Bieganski 17 | 896
26 May 2017 #10
given the sheer scale of it

As I correctly pointed out the UK statistics for drink-driving incidents are only lower because its threshold limits have to be set higher. Britain could never cope if it was as hardline as Poland is when it comes to public intoxication especially when driving.
jon357 67 | 16,807
26 May 2017 #11
pointed out the UK statistics for drink-driving incidents are only lower because its threshold limits have to be set higher. B

A source for your assertions that: a. stats are lower for that reason, and b, they 'have to be' set higher?

Thought not...

never cope if it was as hardline as Poland is when it comes to public intoxication especially when driving.

The number of Poles convicted of that, as demonstrated above, certainly shows beyond any doubt that Britain's laws weren't made with Polish levels of drunkenness in mind.
Harry
26 May 2017 #12
given the sheer scale of it here in Poland and among Poles in general.

Of course that's partly a reflection of the problems here with alcoholism. A friend of mine just posted this link on FB because it's mother's day (it's the story of when she was a child and a couple of drunks ran over her mother, her mother survived the initial crash but instead of calling for help the perpetrators just stole the money from her purse and bought vodka with it )blogs.timesofisrael.com/remembering-my-mother/
jon357 67 | 16,807
26 May 2017 #13
Here's some shocking cases. barely the tip of the iceberg.

The driver in the Des Plaines accident Piotr Rog was drunk -- three times the legal limit

abc7chicago.com/news/toxicology-report-released-of-driver-in-deadly-high-speed-des-plaines-crash/1901211/

The court heard Klasinski, a Polish native, has 13 previous convictions mainly for road traffic offences.

independent.ie/irish-news/courts/speeding-driver-who-killed-councillor-asked-passengers-what-am-i-supposed-to-do-before-driving-away-35677140.html

Agnieszka Chrzaszcz was nearly five times over the drink-drive limit when she reversed at speed in her Honda Civic car and hit Laura Percival

basingstokegazette.co.uk/news/11215178.Drunk_driver_jailed_after_running_down_Basingstoke_mum/
Bieganski 17 | 896
26 May 2017 #14
Polish levels of drunkenness

Poland's tougher stance comes from a mature understanding that drunkenness has a negative impact on the individual and others. The lower blood-alchol limits are there whether someone drinks or not. The lower limits reflect that Poland values the life of her citizens especially now that Poland's borders are open to other EU nationals (and in particular those like the British who are on their way out of the EU) who don't leave their culture of liquid lunches at a pub and weekend long binge drinking routines back home when they visit Poland.

The assertion you are trying to make that Poland's laws have to be tougher because Poland is a nation of drunks is simply wrong.

What is clear is that UK thresholds are higher because its problem with alcoholism is endemic and too costly now to tackle. If the UK was brave enough to follow Poland's lead on this issue then arrest and conviction rates for drink driving in the UK would soar so high that they would lead statistics not only in Europe but worldwide.

timesofisrael.com/remembering-my-mother/

There you go again trying to play the anti-Semitism card. We should start calling you Father Harry or would you prefer Rabbi Harry?

Jedwabne! Białystok! Pogrom! Drink! Drink! Drink!
Harry
26 May 2017 #15
Here's some shocking cases.

Here's a more understandable one. Not the driving bit, of course, but at least the drinking bit (I'd probably be tempted to just kill the pain if I was that fat), although I have no idea why he thought being too fat was an excuse for not going to court:

A forklift driver claimed he was too fat to attend court for his drink-driving hearing.
Jaroslaw Wiech, who weighs 34 stone, claimed he has 'mobility problems' due to his weight and was unable to make the 15-mile trip to court

metro.co.uk/2016/06/27/man-who-claimed-his-belly-was-a-disabilty-was-too-fat-to-turn-up-to-court-5969281/

It's a pity that bloke wasn't banned really, getting on a bike every day would do him the world of good (as it would a few other people too, best not name any names though).
jon357 67 | 16,807
26 May 2017 #16
Here are some more cases, just scratching the surface. Evidently the problem of Poles and drunk driving is massive:

But they eventually revealed to police that the four had been drinking together in a lorry cab and Mr Kenig was very drunk and had become aggressive and abusive.

kentonline.co.uk/hythe/news/murder-arrests-followed-lorry-drivers-35193/

The driver of an HGV was more than three times over the drink drive limit six hours after he crashed on the A15. Tomasz Kogut, 40, from Poland, appeared at Lincoln Magistrates' Court

lincolnshirelive.co.uk/lorry-driver-three-times-the-drink-drive-limit-six-hours-after-a15-crash/story-30107635-detail/story.html

Agnieszka Lauks was seen swerving around in the road and braking for no reason and when she was stopped a breath test showed 142 micrograms of alcohol in her body - 35 is the limit.

blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/crime/blackpool-from-the-courts-06-12-16-1-8275557
Peeweeher
28 May 2017 #17
Poland's tougher stance comes from a mature understanding that drunkenness has a negative impact on the individual and others.

Maybe Polands stance is driven by the fact that it has SIX times the number of drink drivers and FI'VE times the road death rate of the safest driving country in the world -the United Kingdom.
johnny reb 30 | 5,179
9 Jul 2021 #18
Here are some more cases, just scratching the surface. Evidently the problem of Poles and drunk driving is massive:

I see this in many of the threads here just how bad drunk and impaired driving is in Poland.
Are the laws not stringed enough to discourage this ?
Does Poland need to increase jail time, increase fines, mandatory humiliation classes, increase in insurance rates.......?
Something seems very wrong to have to tolerate drunks in Poland.
It seems like getting plastered is the accepted National pass time in Poland.
Strzelec35 31 | 881
9 Jul 2021 #19
i already told you man in Lodz it is literally full of bums and vagrants drunk in the middle of the street touching and harassing people. if i end up laying one of em out i better not be the one taken in while they tolerate such scum. look what liberal California did to me believing the fst unemployed wife of raphael luciano and his gypsy more than 10 truant kid ilk. so who fuking knows in this world whose side they take on as teuth is stranger than fiviton and never believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.
Cargo pants 2 | 951
9 Jul 2021 #20
I have been coming to Poland 21 years and never known or seen a drunk driver,most people are responsible and I think USA has more drunk drivers then in Poland,I maybe wrong by the figures but that is my practical experience.
Strzelec35 31 | 881
9 Jul 2021 #21
maybe not drivers but if you come to Lodz you see many public intoxicants harassing and touching ppl abount and patologia and 12 yr old kids with beer in their hands walking about the side streets.
Cargo pants 2 | 951
9 Jul 2021 #22
12 yr old kids with beer in their hands

I will agree to that as my son admitted drinking in Poland at age 14,but its not a common sight in Warsaw,honestly even the local drunks that help in parking are sober enough to guide lol,Poland has changed a lot and I have to admit that people are becoming law abiding more then Americans though
jon357 67 | 16,807
9 Jul 2021 #23
if you come to Łódż you see many public intoxicants harassing and touching ppl

Poznań used to be bad for that, in parts of the residential areas round the centre. It felt part of the character of the place sometimes but was saddening to see as well. Scruffy workmen selling their tools to buy a bottle of vodka, or smartly dressed female office workers swigging a can of Warka Strong from their handbag on the way to work in the morning.

There are probably a lot of very sad stories in those two cities (and across Poland) resulting from the hard drinking culture.

As for drunk drivers; the police certainly apprehend enough of them; and run special courses for people caught right on the limit as well as fines for the thousands every year who are caught over the limit. The number of over the limit drivers who bribe the police to let them go is a different issue.
Cargo pants 2 | 951
9 Jul 2021 #24
who bribe the police

lol I heard that current rate of drunk driving bribe is 3000 pln to 5000pln a lot by Polish standards,lol.Has to be paid in cash on the spot.:)
johnny reb 30 | 5,179
9 Jul 2021 #25
I think USA has more drunk drivers then in Poland,I

That's because of the amount of drivers and cars in the U.S. comparatively.
Everyone in the U.S. owns at least one car if not two.
Maybe the problem is not drunk drivers in Poland but just low i.q. drivers in Poland.
Poland has one of the EU's worst road-traffic fatality rates, with 77 deaths per million inhabitants in 2019, according to Eurostat, a figure well above the EU average of 51.

My question is WHY is that ?
jon357 67 | 16,807
9 Jul 2021 #26
lol I heard that current rate of drunk driving bribe

That's probably true. I even heard they have a special lower price for elderly people.
Cargo pants 2 | 951
9 Jul 2021 #27
My question is WHY is that ?

Bad census reporting,bad road signs,bad road engineering.

special lower price for elderly people.

How much discount do you get?I remember Blank shooter bragging about how to beat tram ticket checkers here once.
johnny reb 30 | 5,179
9 Jul 2021 #28
Correct jon, if some old blue haired grandma dripping with gold jewelry gets stopped in her Caddy compared to a punk with tattoo's and piercings gets stopped in a junker while being drunk, guess which one goes to jail ?

Now, back to my original question, "Why are not the bad and drunk drivers in Poland not being taken off the roads ?"

Bad census reporting,bad road signs,bad road engineering.

If that is the problem then it seems like that could be easily fixed.
Until then slow the speeders down on those crappy roads and after three speeding tickets you lose your drivers license.
It's like Poland chooses to just deal with the problem without putting any effort into it to make it better. WHY ?
jon357 67 | 16,807
9 Jul 2021 #29
That's because of the amount of drivers and cars in the U.S. comparatively.
Everyone in the U.S. owns at least one car if not two.

More that a lot of the US is less built up, with vast areas of low population density (where fewer people get caught for stuff) and generally has weaker public transport than Europe. Also the higher alcohol/blood limit in America probably doesn't discourage as many people from drinking as the stricter limits across most of Europe.

For some visiting Americans, large parts of Europe (including the busier parts of Poland) must feel like the Washington/Boston/NY region. In the part of England I'm in at the moment, most of the towns just run into each other. Drink driving would be a bad idea here; the police don't have to patrol as wide an area as police in, say, Wyoming and they are very good at catching people.

my original question, "Why are not the bad and drunk drivers in Poland not being taken off the roads ?"

Way too many bad drivers, including among the police (as well as low expectations of driving standards across Polish society as a whole), to address the issue with a quick fix, however:

- Long term drivers' education is needed
- The introduction of a "safety culture" is needed (though the recent appearance of no win-no fee ambulance chaser lawyers may change that slowly)
- Heavier policing of roads would be a start, as well as cameras in every red light (in Poland, shooting the lights is very common) that issues an automatic fine by computer

- Many more (completely hidden) speed cameras (again with automatic fines)
- Being much stricter with the alcohol limit (instead of letting those people who are just do courses)
- Being much stricter with the points system for road offences.
- Actually enforce the law about people driving while using hand held mobile phones (the UK takes people's licence if they've had it for less than two years)

- Fine people who use speed camera detectors/tamper with number plates and jail those who sell them. This stuff is even advertised on Polish TV
Strzelec35 31 | 881
9 Jul 2021 #30
Is there any punishment in Poland even for running over pedestrians or do they just not care like in China?


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