First off I have a Polish grandfather and have no issue with controlled immigration but I have reached my limit personally due to bad experiences with Polish people plus things like where I live now and where I lived a few years ago now basically becoming Polish majority in estates and both have come steps away from being slums.
Where I live now is a ex council estate so always had its problems but in recent years has basically become that anyone who speaks English is treated like an outsider, I am lucky I am in one of the few blocks where its all but one British family, but the single Polish family has given out dozens of spare keys so in summer time they have garden parties leaving litter everywhere, and one who lives across the road uses his key to bring his giant dog across at all hours waking the tenants up during the night, leaving dog mess everywhere and when I originally tried speaking to him he and the other 2 people who brought the dog across went "no speaky English" He even put a fence around my garden and uses it as his own, I eventually complained to council and had him kicking my door and threatening me in perfect English about how to watch my back or I will get a knife in it and he has spread rumours about me to all his friends, and he says he has a right to use my garden as he put up a fence and cuts my grass(he has cut a small piece of grass about 3 times in a year and other tenant in block does it almost weekly)
He runs a self employed business and doesnt report his work to the taxman, I get letters in his name as he used to live in my flat saying he hasnt reported his income almost weekly, he uses the communal bins for the estate and fills them up with not just rubbish but things that need to be recycled such as he chops wardrobes into pieces and fills up the bins, currently there is 2 shower doors left out and smashed, a few weeks ago was about 20 old van tyres, and also matresses, old sofas(that the council doesnt pick up so the homeless use them or kids jumping on them) even had the bins set on fire before when he put a matress in there and curtains and his friends now stop their cars and vans next to me and give me rude gestures and swear in Polish.
At a previous place what annoyed me was a area that was for decades first time homes as they were cheap have now become a Polish slum, and they outright say to you in English "get out of here/you dont belong here" if they know you arent Polish and the alleyways are full of drunks smashing vodka bottles and to me what makes matters worse is a factory 15 miles away has fired all its British workers in past 6 or so years and now puts on a free bus to this estate, why is it ok for the jobs to be given to the Polish only?!
I could go on forever but will now talk about individual people I know, I had a neighbour I was friendly with but he was disgusting in his opinions of women, he said women were only there for sex, slept with multiple women every day, got drunk on at least a bottle of vodka a day(often more than one as well as cans of lager) even when he got a British girlfriend who he moved in with he cheated on her even though he had a daughter with her, he said he wanted to go to college to sleep with all the 18 year old women and get easy money,
And every time I have been to a college interview in past few years have seen Polish people who want grants despite only being in country under 5 years, I get told by local women that they have stopped using a park as many Polish use it now and stalk the women often on bicycles and say things in Polish or outright tell the women they want to have sex with them(using bad words)
I am now ashamed of my Polish genetic background, but it would be useful to hear from some Polish people their thoughts on my situation.
I'm not Polish. Not even close:-) But the above diatribe reads a bit over the top to me! I'm not necessarily questioning the veracity of your story, merely the generalizing character of it all.
I am autistic, but as I am poor I live in areas where the Polish people live since where I have lived the majority live in a single area in a town.
I of course have had plenty of good experiences, every Polish person I met at university I got on with, and so far I havent met a single bad Polish women its all the Polish men for some reason.
But a common thing I have noticed and not sure why is in multiple places I have lived you have as many as 8 people in a 2 bedroom apartment when the apartment itself only costs about £250 per month, its not as if its expensive rent.
I still want to learn Polish language due to my genetic background.
If your story is genuine, my advice would be to forget your genetics, and to concentrate on yourself and your future instead of all that is affecting you in a negative way. You can report illegal things to the authorities - I am sure you are aware of that? There are low lives in every nation - do not believe that Poles are somehow superior. You seem to be surrounded by an exceptionally primitive bunch of Poles - get out of there ASAP and seek positivity, no point in dwelling on the negative. Good luck.
The thing is I never said I said all Poles are like this ;) you just assumedI did its part of my disability.
Also forgot to mention that I see it more of a culture clash than anything, the parties I suffered last summer were because all the local Polish stick together and when a new one moves to area they become part of the group so whilst that is a good thing I feel they havent thought about the people raised here and its more naive than rude.
I have some good Polish neighbours who I talk to such as the one in my block who have a 2 year old child who always says hello to me and I have talked to the woman a lot as she speaks good English(the male speaks almost no English)
All my issues seem to be with Polish men, I once had a argument with a Polish man who said all British people are lazy as they dont get out of bed before 6am.
Almost every Polish person I have worked with has been a hard worker.
I did just remember a few more experiences I have had with Polish, had some flatmates who spilled oil over the entire kitchen and never cleaned it and it was dangerous as every time the cooker went on a large flame reached the ceiling, they put the heating to 35 degrees, and the male ones drank a lot and had music on a lot so loud our neighbours complained,
I will mention of course I have had bad issues with British born people too but the Polish ones seem to be similar each time and the British ones different every time and in terms of work I think the best applicant should get the job but something is wrong when a company hires only Polish people.
There are cultural differences between nationalities, there's no getting around that. Stereotyping though is an all too easy trap into which we all fall. My experiences with Poles is that many are openly emotional about topics which might leave, say, Germans, Danes, Brits, Yanks etc. cold, e.g. their national identity aka recent history.
Once, I casually remarked to a group of youngish Poles (30 something) how much I loved the Polish language, literature and what I saw of the landscape, along with personal "heroes" of mine such as Karol Wojtyła. At that point, one young man almost with tears in his eyes, kept agreeing with me, saying "New York Times writes sh***t about my country...!" The rest of the people similarly became agitated.
Imagine saying something like what I said to a group of Danes. Not all are pflegmatic, but when I once told some Danish tourists how much I liked Denmark, they all but scoffed at my feelings in a bemused, ironic way:-)
I go by less stereotype and more experience too, what I will say though is when I was at university I was the only native British person in a group of friends that included Polish, Romanian, Russian, Ukrainian(and more but cant remember)
Something I clearly remember is women from every country said their men were loud and did not treat their women well and drank a lot of alcohol and they preferred British men, I am not saying that is best idea as many British men drink and bad to women as are the women bad to men but they were telling me things that I already had experience of such as the drinking and noise.
I am still proud of my mixed genetic heritiage, I know many Europeans do but I include Polish, Romanian, German, Malteste alone within 3 generations may even be more, Its strange but people speak to me in Polish because they think I am because I look Polish to them even when I travelled Europe 10 years ago people thought I was Polish, or one or two thought I was Romanian.
Pleassse, alcoholism is scarcely limited to the Poles!!! How about the Swedes, the Dutch and the Finns?? The latter have a far worse reputation, along with hooliganism among the Dutch particularly:-)
@Ryouga: the problem is that Poles going abroad happen to be "economic migrants" and thereofore they are not "la crème de la crème". They are unfortunately among the poorest in Poland, they are uneducated, they come from primtive Eastern rural areas so hard to expect "sophisticated" people.
In Poland like in any other country, there are all kinds of people so it is not relevant to judge a whole population based upon a small sample thereof.
Several times I was told by Poles in Poland that they were ashamed of the Poles going abroad for bread.
I still want to learn Polish language due to my genetic background.
forget about it - Polish language has a very steep learning curve for beginners - without intensive learning and immersion you will never be able to speak or even properly understand Polish
as for your problems with your Polish neighbours I totally believe you - Poles are definitely no saints - there is much egoism, greed and sexism involved when it comes to Poles especially the uneducated
Just move away and leave. Find a better place with a better standard of tenant, let it be taken over by that kind of person but just look after yourself and your needs.
I certainly wouldn't live anywhere near that kind of area or that kind, go and be near to people like you, who want a better standard of life and know a better one.
Just move away and leave. Find a better place with a better standard of tenant, let it be taken over by that kind of person but just look after yourself and your needs.
I certainly wouldn't live anywhere near that kind of area or that kind, go and be near to people like you, who want a better standard of life and know a better one.
You need to get a council house, Those estates are always like that my friend. Does not matter what nationality, council estates are going to be like that, i once purchased a council flat in london thinking it will be ok.
Not a chance. We had drug dealers and african dictators living there! once the caravans rolled in to a open field behind the flat!!!! The flat next to us was council and they would move one manic in, then the out, and then another. I can tell you i have heard some dreadfull things in those wall, I am positive some should have been in a mental home. One guy would just start banging onthe walls and scream like ... WTF in the middle of the night.
I sold breaking even and never looked back. lucky i was. I even met brits who grew up in the area later... they were also too happy to escape once the council started building the flats.
They were lucky as the values dropped like a rock and thats the case around most council estates. You will find people who buy houses, the smart ones, avoid buying houses close to them. I spoke with friends who also purchased in zone two in london ex council flats, We were lucky as when a council flat became vacant in their building, sqwaters would move in next door and started tapping into their electrics and water!
You will be better of in a council house, atleast your neibour will be limited to 2 BUT dont be too comvey as some of these people still tap into your water and electrics. I rented a house and the dirty geezers were into our hot water. luckly i called a plumber and switch them off. they moved out soon after, likley scared.
And this is a waring also to Polish people going there. There are nice polish people too, but if you looking at a council flat... better sit outside and check the people there for a week or two and speak to the local shop owners, they will be happy to tell you all about the place.
something i should have done, before my rose tinted glasses blinker were on.
I didn't mean that my Polish blood meant I would learn it easier but because I am proud of my genetics so want to at least attempt to learn and due to Polish people moving here it would be good to have at least a basic conversation with them to prevent language barriers.
Poles going abroad happen to be "economic migrants"
Most are, but many are not - this sort of steroetyping souds offensive...
They are unfortunately among the poorest in Poland, they are uneducated
More stereotyping. Have you any data to support this?
primitive Eastern rural areas
How are they different from those in Western, Southern or Northern parts? Here i the UK I have not come across one person form the 'primitive Eastern rural areas' - majority are actually from cities in Western, Southern, and Northern Poland, largest ones in Poland... so more stereotyping again.
and thereofore they are not "la crème de la crème"..."sophisticated" people.
So following your logic, the elite, the ruling class stays behind. Again, many do, others do not. Not too long ago we have all heard samples of the class of these <"la crème de la crème"..."sophisticated" people> in the infamous recordings of leading Polish politicians in 'afera podsłuchowa'...
Do you think that Poles who make good incomes who can have a good life at home bother to move to UK and the like to clean toilets or work at Tesco and bear xenophobia? No, certainly not.
As said, the big majority of Poles in UK are economic migrants. I am not saying 100% but the big majority thereof so yes they are among the poorest and least educated in Poland.
Poles who make good incomes who can have a good life at home bother to move to UK and the like to clean toilets
And what about who do not happen to be so lucky? And you seem convinced Poles migrate to do menial jobs? Well, more stereotyping and limited insight from you, my dear.
There is a sizeable group, especially the young & educated, who choose to migrate do to: 1) the absurdities of life on all levels 2) limited opportunities for career development and progression 3) lack of cultural and ethnic variety on a meaningful scale 4) lack of separation of church and state - the one and only morally righteous RCC.
Many visiting have commented how backward PL is many respects when compared to say the UK... - for them it's like travelling back a generation or two.
and you seem convinced most Poles migrate to do menial jobs
She doesn't need to 'seem convinced', she is right as far as migration to the UK is concerned. Also most are small-town/rural people with a corresponding lack of savoir-faire. Plus the demographic is skewed in favour of the 24-32 age group and towards single men. This does have an affect on what some of these people are like as neighbours.
There are certainly some of the more sophisticated and cosmopolitan people that you describe, however they are in a tiny minority.
I cannot comment on their skills, but everytime I have been for college interview on last few years I have always had group interviews which every time included Polish, I applied for jobs in computer field and such which would imply they do not have the skills already.
There is a lot of male Polish builders though, but the buildings I know that have been built or repaired by Polish workers have always been badly made i.e structural problems or crumbling walls but its hard to say as they work for companies in the UK(not UK owned all the time though)
Interesting to know is the problems I am having are with the men in the early 20's to mid 30's age group give or take a few years, never had problems with older ones and never had a problem with any females so far.
In the same age range I notice a lot of Polish men like to exercise, my local council gym has all Polish workers so British people dont like going there and all the women claim the men say rude things to them, I knew in my old town 2 Polish cage fighters but they were actually friendly apart from putting on loud music a few times.
On a interesting subject I notice every caravan park I have vistied around the UK has Romanian cleaners which seems very specific so its strange, the Polish cleaners seem to be female mostly and clean shops and bars.
InPolska - from what I can see (living in UK) there is really a cross section of the community here....
I mean I know of people with their own businesses, or who work in the bank or the school. I also know there are alot of people who work at the meat processing plant, and yes they are quite 'rough'.
@Rozu: sure but the no1. criterion of Poles moving West is ... money. I have met some Poles who had great jobs in Poland but they decided to move to UK (or elsewhere in Western Europe) for .... money. If they make good money here (I live in Poland ;); they often can expect at least double in Western Europe although cost of living is often very similar.
As to UK, all statistics shall show that most Polish migrants are from the poorest, uneducated, small towns/rural areas. Their main concern is money, to send as much as they can to their families back home.... Most are economic migrants.
purely from what I have seen over the years I am not convinced...there are all sorts here... although sure, of course there will be more 'working class' men, same as how it used to be with the Irish. No need to stereotype though!
@Rozu: I am NOT talking about what you see in your neighborhood. Even if you know a few cases (so do I and not only to UK), the majority of Poles moving West are from the poorest classes. Common sense and it's the same in all poor countries (those with comfortable lives don't move as often and when they do, they have other criterias such as ... climate ..... ;).
the 'poorest classes' don't have the bus fare, inPolska...:) I expect those are the ones who arrived with a fiver in their pockets and had to camp out at Victoria station waiting to be rescued....
not just 'my neighbourhood' as I have moved a lot and knew a lot of Polish people from around the time my children were born (late 90s)
@Rozu: a bus fare costs hardly anything and if necessary, family chips in to buy ticket. I see that you don't live in Poland so you don't know re Polish life.
