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Weird and wonderful Polish train fares


delphiandomine 86 | 17823
15 Jan 2021 #1
I thought I'd start a new thread dedicated to strange train fares that I've found in Poland.

My favourite right now is if you buy an international ticket from Frankfurt (Oder) to Słubice. If you buy the ticket from the Deutsche Bahn ticket window in Frankfurt or from the ticket machines, then you'll pay 5.60 Euro for the 7 minute journey. However, if you purchase the ticket on board from the Polish conductors (who can only sell you tickets once the train crosses the state border) - then you'll pay only 1EUR/4PLN. The train is only in Polish territory for 2km of the journey, which means that the conductors in practice will rarely sell the ticket in question in both directions.

Interestingly, the train from Słubice to Frankfurt is cheaper than the Frankfurt public transport which has a bus service into Słubice.
jon357 73 | 22638
16 Jan 2021 #2
strange train fares that I've found in Poland.

A few times (from Warsaw to Łódż and Katowice) I've found first class tickets for a lower price than second class).
amiga500 4 | 1490
13 May 2022 #3
this is cool. the krauts are introducing a 9 euro for 3 months public transport ticket for the WHOLE of germany. that is you can use buses and trains everywhere excluding the ICE and EC trainsd This is the advantage of an integrated government led/run public transport system. Something we can only dream about in Poland, I mean look at the mess that is Warsaw with these confusing tickets of SKM/KM additions.

bahn.com/en/offers/regional/9-euro-ticket-en

btw what happened to delph? leave permanently because of some posting photo bustup with johnny reb?
pawian 221 | 24216
14 May 2022 #4
The last time I travelled by train was about 30 years ago. Is it bad? Os there sth wrong with me?
jon357 73 | 22638
14 May 2022 #5
Something we can only dream about in Poland

In Poland, public sector railways are very very good.

I mean look at the mess that is Warsaw with these confusing tickets of SKM/KM additions.

Do you buy them often?
pawian 221 | 24216
14 May 2022 #6
Do you buy them often?

Yes, he orders them from Australia and then never takes a ride, but always complains. Funny.
jon357 73 | 22638
14 May 2022 #7
integrated government led/run public transport system. Something we can only dream about in Poland

Many competing public bodies and no equivalent of Transport for London. A few years ago maybe 2003 or 4 Piaseczno nearly lost its buses from Warsaw due to an interagency argument about payment and about the same time integrated tickets were rolled out then suddenly lost validity on the WKD and on the SKM predecessor.

They can't afford to do the cheap ticket like Germany but are still better than they were and it does work on a zone system after a fashion.

btw what happened to delph? leave permanently because

I'll answer that one in random chat.
amiga500 4 | 1490
15 May 2022 #8
were rolled out then suddenly lost validity on the WKD and on the SKM predecessor.

Yes it's so stupid, the tickets page on ZTM.waw is so confusing with all these conditions/exceptions for SKM/WKD and KM. It is so stupid that warsaw council and the sorounding municipalities cannot get along. On a national level it's dumb that Polregio is separate from PKP/TLK. The whole thing is just a mess. why can't poles just get along? I know they did because of 'amerkyanski rynek' and competion but sometimes with public transport, an goverment monopoly or a tightly integrated system with private players but heavily regulated by the Gov is the best.

One thing I am pissed at PiS, is that because the Modlin municipality is run by PO, they want to destroy Modlin airport. Instead of expanding Modlin as the Chopin replacement.

I have come to realise the CPK is just a waste of money, and is being used to pay PiS aparchiks to basically do nothing. Modlin would be a better option, or just bit the bullet and demolish that highway that PO built next to Chopin and expand that in tandem with Modlin.

The rail investment that is part of CPK is great though and should be kept.
jon357 73 | 22638
15 May 2022 #9
On a national level it's dumb that Polregio is separate from PKP/TLK

That can work if there's a Passenger Transport Executive that licences their operations and has control over ticketing. Unfortunately there isn't one.

I know they did because of 'amerkyanski rynek

It was like that always, with different organisations each with their own fiefdom. Every time they signed a contract they had a ceremony with flowers, a commemorative medal and a buffet. They probably still do.

Modlin as the Chopin replacement.

There are a lot of issues with Modlin, however it has its uses. They'd need a bigger terminal if they were going to keep it though, and better rail links.
amiga500 4 | 1490
20 May 2022 #10
Through it's holding by the Polish Airport Authority and the Military which owns the majority of Modlin, PiS is blocking the expansion of the terminal. Also it only takes building a 5km spur line to the airport by PKP, this is being held up as well.
KorkiTaczer - | 114
20 May 2022 #11
Modlin

Modlin will never replace Chopin airport. For Modlin, the maximum environmental limit is 66 scheduled operations per day, which translates into a maximum of 4.2 mln passengers per year. If you want to expand, you have to build a second (longer) runway. Who's gonna do that? Dynamic duo: Trzaskowski and Struzik? Fine, but only if they do that using their own money.
amiga500 4 | 1490
20 May 2022 #12
I am not suggesting it replaces Chopin, just both replace the need for CPK. Dublin is the same size as Chopin yet takes twice the aircraft movement, An upgrade to traffic control would enable this, combine that with expanding Modlin and we don't need CPK for 40 years. The rail investment to have everything go through/terminate at CPK is stupid, instead of linking cities directly with high speed rail.
jon357 73 | 22638
20 May 2022 #13
Chopin

A problem with Okęcie is its proximity to built-up areas. There have been accidents there before; the next one could be worse.

Modlin is fine as a (currently) second airport. It has room for expansion. There are well enough known party political issues around Modlin and a possible other airport and the arguments/discussions about sites have been going on for years.

I always loosely favoured Mszczonów when there were plans for an airport there about 20 years ago. Great for freight and there are existing rail lines for passengers and good road links.

They could call it Amszin International to reflect the town's heritage.
amiga500 4 | 1490
20 May 2022 #14
There have been accidents there before; the next one could be worse

Are you referring to the two IL-62 crashes? those Ilyushins had a very bad design fault, that if an engine had a catastrophic fault, the pieces of the engine would cut the hydraulic control cables making the plane unflyable. After the first crash the Poles wrote to the russians explaining it all, and typically it was swept under the carpet by the ruskis and ignored.

There are many places in built-up areas and that is no problem for chopin to operate, (sydney airport for one)
jon357 73 | 22638
20 May 2022 #15
those Ilyushins had a very bad design fault

Crashes can and do happen for many reasons. Even on the best designed aeroplane.

many places in built-up areas

Generally people try to avoid having aeroplanes approaching airports over them. Or building airports close to a city centre. It's handy for passengers, but too near.

With Sydney, the flight path in and out is carefully chosen and construction is heavily restricted.

This thread is about train fares though, not airports. The rail link to Okecie does work though isn't as popular as was hoped. If Modlin is to work in the future, as well as enlargement, they will need to improve rail. It isn't the fares that are the problem it is the waiting.

Mszczonow was an ideal,place. It would need a new station and that could be incorporated into the ticketing zones. A special airport ticket is not unusual.
amiga500 4 | 1490
22 May 2022 #16
. Even on the best designed aeroplane.

hey old man u sound like ure stuck with BAE and what they pioneered. pitty the yanks and boeing fuc*ed em over with the Trident. so waht u trying to say? that chopin should be shut down in the next 5 years? cause your PO mates have properties near there>?

The rail link to Okecie does work

No it does not Fing not. any tourist will be so Fing confused about the SKM and KM trains stopping at Chopin, and how u can get ZTM.pl ticket that excludes SKM and KM but includes from Chopin, stupid madness.

thats the \thing with pommy expats they been so long in poland and they think this pierdolona zezawictosc i waht it is. wtf? 2 train companies goin from chopin, and they have their terminating station on the train so who knows where they are goin in the CBD. it is a Fing mess.
jon357 73 | 22638
22 May 2022 #17
Fing not. any tourist will be so Fing confused about the SKM and KM trains stopping at Chopin, and how u can get ZTM.pl ticket

I don't know about tourists however I just buy a ticket from the machine at the station. Easy enough, in fact easier than Berlin, Amsterdam, CDG, Heathrow or Manchester. Or get an Uber. less than £10 into town. How many times a year do you use Okęcie? The train fares are straightforward. Easy station, easy trains.

that chopin should be shut down in the next 5 years? cause your PO mates have properties near there>?

I doubt it will be shut down any time soon.
Lenka 5 | 3521
15 Sep 2022 #18
I'm just doing some travelling by train in Poland and omg is it comfortable! Admittedly I'm using the IC trains since they are more convenient and cheaper (!!!) than the regional ones but still.

One of them is even the older style refurbished small compartment one that may look a bit tacky but quiet and comfortable.





jon357 73 | 22638
15 Sep 2022 #19
the older style refurbished small compartment

They are way nicer, especially if there's a WARS car nearby.
Lenka 5 | 3521
15 Sep 2022 #20
They do make a much more comfortable journey as you do get more peace and quiet. I haven't used WARS in decades though
amiga500 4 | 1490
15 Sep 2022 #21
want to catch this polish sleeper train :) 17 hours brekky and lunch and dinner in the WARS. youtube.com/watch?v=CX9E_E4yKtc
Kashub1410 6 | 649
15 Sep 2022 #22
Yeah, prices differ immensely depending route and class. (Some countries don't have it mind you)

Most have electrical sockets which allows to charge batteries on phones/laptops/other devices as well.

I much prefer such train rides over driving a car as I can stretch out and charge batteries. While not having to worry about driving or checking the map too much.

The time is also severely reduced then in the late 90's or 2000's as I recall.

Was up to 5-7 hours between Cracow and Warsaw. Now it's down between 2,5-4 hours depending on route/stops

Also the service providing snacks seem friendly in my experience and passengers were behaving friendly too when the person working it did a mistake or two (probably new) so seems like passengers behave better too during the trip. (Very different to flight rides I must write)
jon357 73 | 22638
15 Sep 2022 #23
Cheap, good, and fortunately still in public ownership. That needs to be cherished
amiga500 4 | 1490
15 Sep 2022 #24
Sure but PKP IC needs some competition in terms of open access to keep them honest as České dráhy has with RegioJet and Leo Express on trunk routes.
jon357 73 | 22638
15 Sep 2022 #25
open access

They have it, Interregio, TLK etc, all safely out of commercial hands.
amiga500 4 | 1490
15 Sep 2022 #26
I prefer the open access model for some real competition as opposed to different gov owned entities pretending to compete with each other en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open-access_operator

Ceske Drahy has had to improve so much with competion from RegioJet.
jon357 73 | 22638
15 Sep 2022 #27
open access model

There's one I use quite often when I visit the UK due to a handy route with a low price (£38 first class to London as opposed to £60 second class on the main route). It only takes a few minutes longer however it hasn't made much impact.

The non-PKP ones in Poland are popular; the cheaper fares attract passengers thereby freeing up space on PKP routes.

No need for commercial involvement at all, however if it were limited to worker-owned companies with 'private equity' legally restricted from involvement it may work.

The WARS model is interesting; it belongs to the people with a standard menu but rents the dining cars to small businesses, often sole traders.
amiga500 4 | 1490
16 Sep 2022 #28
There's one I use quite often when I visit the UK due

Yes the Grand Central to Yorkshire but do you get off at Blackpool or Poulton-le-Fylde?

The non-PKP ones in Poland are popular; the cheaper fares attract passengers

I had a look at warsaw-poznan/krakov train prices two days out and two weeks out, and the prices were about the same, in fact the pendolino was 20 zloty cheaper than polgregio and tlk! if u think that isn't a dodgy arranged duopoly, people coluding in their gov appointed jobs, then ure insane.

RegioJet and Leo Express have applied many times for open access in poland, to shake PKP up, to the horror of the authorities. hopefully if/when PO gets in they will see sense that competition is good for government monopolies.
jon357 73 | 22638
16 Sep 2022 #29
the pendolino was 20 zloty cheaper

That's because of dynamic ticket pricing in Poland. Sometimes first class is cheaper than second on the Warsaw-Katowice route.

The result you scoured the timetables for trying to prove some sort of point was doubtless because the popularity of the TLK and Interregio means that it books up first, thereby keeping the PKP prices low. I've taken advantage of that myself a few times.

tlk! if u think that isn't a dodgy arranged duopoly,

It isn't.

Any surplus that PKP, Interegio or TLK make goes to provide public services rather than being trousered by privateers. That's how public services work and one reason the trains work so well in Poland. That and EU infrastructure grants.

Yes the Grand Central to Yorkshire but do you get off at Blackpool or Poulton-le-Fylde?

Brush up on your googling skills. And your geography.
amiga500 4 | 1490
16 Sep 2022 #30
That's because of dynamic ticket pricing.

Dynamic pricing works with pkp ic, but not with the others, go on then guv find me a 20zloty cheaper fare to krakow or poznan on polregio and tlk within the next 2 weeks !

TLK and Interregio means that it books up first

hahaha really, cause they have such such a stellar reputation! yes of course everyone would book polregio/tlk before the pendolino, you really are making a fool of yourself. <hint it's a national/local goverment scam/duopoly> what they have to be afraid of? if it's all so fine, then allow the czechs regiojet to compete on polish rails


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