Being Transgender and visiting Wroclaw

Most countries' systems and culture are not in any sense role models of good governance or stable inclusive societies.

Iran is quite good on trans issues though, if perhaps a little over-eager.


Only when the media whip it up and 'the rest' see near-endless headlines about it.

And as I've mentioned a few times in this thread, people under about 30 don't seem to have much of a problem about it and the upcoming generation of adults even less of a problem.

Really, most posts after page one should be in a more general thread. The OP was asking for specific advice. Instead, she's got Rich's foul language and spewed-out hatred and our intellectualising.

Na ja....in Germany the mainstream media usually support and further such cases more often than not. And still the surveys won't look any better still...so I guess that acceptance won't change to the better in the near future...there is just some inner acute sense of justice which gets stepped on with every one of such cases!

Ours tend to fan the flames, if anything.


I suspect it will all calm down with time.

Really?

Without lawful interference, there will be a rising number of sportsmen claiming victories over women....do you truly think people will get used to that?

I can't forget that one image made by that swimmer....heading over his/hers rivals (all biological females)....nearly two heads taller, a much broader torso, muscled like a well-trained male....the loser women nearly crying....but he/she was grinning inanely into the cameras, all happy of course....I felt that as totally mocking the women!

I for sure won't get used to that injustice! That's not about only being conservative, not progressive enough...

By whom? There are far more countries than major sports so that would be nigh impossible.

Anyway, sports are a trivial thing to anyone other than fans, participants and bookies. The number of people affected is small, and as I say, competition regulations are a matter for the sports bodies. People opposed to trans sportspersons are vocal enough on the issue in question.


I'd fire off an email to whichever body overseas the competition.

Well...this case get's enough attention without my email....but tell me you are okay with that!

No more or less OK than I am with match fixing, doping etc.

I'm much less OK with the flood of clickbait articles whipping up hatred that affects privileged sportspeople (whether trans or cis) or the sensibilities of the suburban lower middle class far less than it affects LGBTQ people getting beaten up on rough council estates or cross dressers in the slums of Rio or Manila getting shot to death.

...here we can agree at least!

And maybe we won't agree on that but I'm fairly convinced with ending these hugely infamous injustices trans people generally would have a better standing already....similiar to the other LGB's....hence the rising movement to differentiate themselves from the "t"....also in their rainbow flag....

That's where our opinions seem to differ!

It doesn't matter that the number of people affected is "small" in your opinion. Injustice is injustice. One could also say that the number of transgender people is small - so why should the majority cater to the "whims" of a minority? You're being hypocritical.


There are rules, laws and punishments for match fixing, doping, etc.

Not so 'rising'. Mostly an online thing among the boomer generation, generally in the twilight of their lives now.


It is small.


And there are far greater injustices in this world than issues about who can ride a bicycle faster than the next person.

If 'injustice' about women playing competitive games worries you, there are thousands of potential female sportspeople in parts of the world where they are more or less forbidden to do sport at all.

As I say, this is a matter for the governing bodies for sports competitions.

We only hear so much about it because the media like to get click from people who are easily riled up.

Of course, not!

Transgenderism is based on a lie. A man cannot ever become a woman. If he says he is a woman he lies.
If we accept that lying is OK, it will spread beyond sports. The US government, through the Small Business Administration, provides funds for women. Do I qualify just because I said that I am a woman?


BB, I am so proud of you. ...

One does not need to be personally involved in insanity like transgenderism to object to it. It's a form of cancer that leads to a breakdown of society.

Homeless people and the destruction of San Francisco is just one example. Once a thriving city, it is now on its deathbed only because we didn't say no, you have no right to sh*it on the sidewalk. Stores are closing because we didn't say stealing is wrong. We said just the opposite because today we must always be nice and "tolerant".

So is the number of transgender people. So?


You behave like a Soviet/Putinist RuSSian: "But they beat black people in America!"

The fact that there are big injustices happening somewhere else doesn't mean we should allow "small" injustices happening in our countries.


Oh, so, if it's not such a big deal, according to you, then you should have no problem with transgender males being banned from women's sports! :)))

So there's no need for you to get so worked up about it.


They did and still do.


Trans women? No problem at all. Nor trans men being banned from men's sports if the appropriate organisation has a case for that. As I've said, it's up to sports governing bodies to decide if the gender assigned at birth gives an unfair physical advantage, not outsiders. Issues like people who are intersex (I'm thinking about Castor Semenya) have already been addressed. The decisions may suit some and not others however since sports governing bodies exist to regulate sports competitions, that's something they do not lack experience in.

So, if gay or transgender people are being treated badly or in an unfair way, I shouldn't get worked up about it, because there aren't that many of them?


So you wouldn't be against, for example, banning Lia Thomas from competing against women?


Sport isn't something that somehow "belongs" to sports governing bodies with others being some kind of "outsiders" that have no right to speak their mind. And, yes, this issue should be taken care of those responsible for sports - the question is how it's going to be settled. There was already some bad precedent, so I'm wondering in what direction this will go.

And it's not just about sports, but more serious issues, like transgender prisoners in female prisons.

On the whole there are quite a lot. Transgender sportspeople are a far smaller subset and sports bodies exist to regulate competitions.


Not at all if the organisations that govern swimming galas consider that she has an unfair advantage.


It is, actually, in the matter of competitions they regulate.

Novi, I am so proud of you.
Yes, it is just another of Satan's lies to cause chaos in the world.
Satan uses his sex lies for many ways to sin from adultery to perverted homosexuality to pedophiles.

You could say the same about sportspeople.


What about your personal opinion? Don't you have a mind of your own?


No, it isn't o_O

Transgender sportspeople?


Learn some civility. You asked twice, I answered twice. Here you are again: My opinion is that I have no issue at all with trans people either being excluded or included in sports competitions if the body who govern the competition consider that there is or isn't an unfair advantage.


Odd you thing that sports competitions aren't a matter for the organisations that govern them. Do you think the court of public opinion should decide the rules of games?

Wow....maybe then it's all a bad case of miscommunication and we do agree in the end! As does the far majority of the people...:)

PS: Caster Semenya is a totally different case...a very unlucky case at that, as she never really had a choice, she was truly born intersexual. A Lia Thomas on the other hand is just a bad case of opportunism! A loser in men sports, using a still missing law to gain undeservedly successes.

That's been clear along.

Worth mentioning that you and I are the only two here who've discussed it with civility rather than mirroring the awful hysteria in clickbait newspapers and social media or just arguing for the sake of it.

....or maybe my English is bad as it is...my insults would just suck! :)

Sportspeople - people who are being affected.


Learn to think by yourself. What is your opinion about the fact that Lia Thomas was allowed to compete against women and share a changing room with them?


That's not what I wrote. I wrote that sport doesn't belong to those organisations. Sport isn't their property. It exists for people, not for governing bodies. Not to mention that those organisations can be far from perfect or even corrupted (FIFA comes to mind).

There you go again.


I've told you already, and you'd do better to get hysterical with someone interested in swimming competitions than someone entirely uninterested. What do I think about her participation? It's something the sports body should have ruled on before the event. What do I think about changing rooms? Nothing. That's a matter for those who use them.


If you're looking for perfection, you will be in a permanent state of disappointment.

I'm not being "hysterical". I'm asking you pretty simple and straightforward questions :)


OK, then let us take a look at what an international sports body has to say about this issue:

apnews.com/article/transgender-swimmers-new-rules-fina-world-governing-body-c17e99d3121fa964336458b57ae266f7

"FINA members widely adopted a new "gender inclusion policy" on Sunday that only permits swimmers who transitioned before age 12 to compete in women's events. The organization also proposed an "open competition category."

"This is not saying that people are encouraged to transition by the age of 12. It's what the scientists are saying, that if you transition after the start of puberty, you have an advantage, which is unfair," James Pearce, who is the spokesperson for FINA president Husain Al-Musallam, told The Associated Press."

Well there you go. It looks like they've considered the issue and made a ruling.

Do you agree with their ruling?

"She" would never have an unfair advantage. It's "he" - that guy with two balls and one dick he has now or used to have before they were chopped off - that has an "unfair advantage". Duh!

What the freaks refuse to answer is why way back we separated men and women in restrooms and sports. Always insist on this question being answered first.

And never, ever use the word woman unless as a quote. Through my many conversations, I learned to never ask: Is it fair for trans women to compete with women? By using the term "trans women" you adopted the language of the enemy and agreed that "trans women" are women - just a little different from the real ones.

Never adopt the enemy language! Conservatives often fall into this trap. "Progressives" and "liberals" are good examples. "Leftist morons" is better and more accurate.

The right way to ask this question is: Is it fair when males compete with females in sports? Even the freaks don't claim that there are many degrees of maleness or femaleness. They hang on to "man" and "woman", instead. When asked to define these two terms, they deflect, refuse to answer, or just scream.

Hey, jon, what is your definition of "woman"? It should be important to you so you already know it. Please share it with us.

Excellent Post, Novi !
With that said, which is unarguable, I wonder if they will get it now.

Thing is your enemy could be easier convinced with your better arguments (or mine) when you don't insult them....it's human to close up and stop listening when you are bad-mouthed at the same time, no matter the right and better arguments!

That counts for all sides...see the Ukraine thread....

Dear BB, as I already said, I love you, man. But you are still not in the kill 'em or be killed club where I am the CEO.

The only purpose of debating transgender insanity is to publicly ridicule these frauds and expose their lies to the fence-sitters. That's where this war will be won or lost.

There is zero chance of convincing them and other leftist morons that they have been wrong. It would destroy their worldview and the investment they made in it. So I don't blame them for resisting. I would, too.

...damn! :(

*takes helmet and scuffles away*