Shocking! Test standards in Polish schools.

Beat me to it :D lol

That would be no problem, gumishu! They'd only have to read through a script and that's it. That's why I said ... I'd rather have someone with no (relevant) education, but who actually lived in England or Ireland for some years, than some over-qualified university guy, who doesn't speak the language and who will be bored out of his wits very soon.

Is it possible to understand it too? I know that someone can learn an algorythm of solving a math task without having a slightest idea of what he is doing.


that is?

Probably not too many would. Then again, many college students get good grades in their calculus courses by solving problems but not actually understanding what they are doing.

I must say they used to push kids quite a bit in Anglophone world - I am not sure I have heard the word limit before the age of 15


I must say they used to push kids quite a bit in Anglophone world - I am not sure I have heard the word limit before the age of 15


so that's how it works? - no intelectual input on the side of the helpdesk operator? - just reading through some yes/no scripted diagram? :P

But it's quite suprising that in many countries (or maybe all) standards of education has dropped and I see that at least in Polish case it was triggered off by the ministers tinkering in it.

for example, ONC or HNC. mine are trade qualifications, but they would get me into university.

many work related exams will give access to university.

people like my mum did A levels for a hobby so she had no problem getting into uni. even though she was retired at the time.

or Open University foundation courses which is how I blagged my way in to uni.

Sorry but I don't buy it. What are the chances that a person write words such as leader, team or upgrade without mistakes but can't spell "family" correctly ? No one is saying here that Poles are excellent at foreign languages, no need to make up stuff to "prove" that it isn't so... Besides, when did you conduct that experiment ? On Sunday :)) ? You "expats" should improve your logical thinking skills before you criticize anyone...


It is possible but doesn't make sense at all. 13 yo kids will have no clue how to use it anyway.


Fascinating.

It's all about the papers Stu! They've got a paper that says they can do something, so obviously they can do it...

you have a point there...these do not sound like 'normal' errors..for example too many indefinite articles..besides, Stu, you said you were after people with spoken language skills, which is quite different. Why not advertise directly for the people with the skills you need?

Want me to send you photocopies, boy? No smartass, I did it on Friday. Unlike you, I have a social life and I can't be bothered to post on PF every day. Man ... some people ... :S:S:S:S


Because, rozumiemnic ... I am not involved in the hiring process. In the morning, I asked around why they hire people with university degrees and not people with language skills. "Ahh ... it is very simple", I was told. "The salary of people who are highly educated and are out of a job are being largely paid by the EU and not by <my company>". So there we have the problem, don't we? A company is trying to save a few bucks on salaries, they ask for a grant from the EU, they hire highly qualified people, who are -unfortunately- unsuitable to do the job.

Pretty normal really, Millions round the world.know words like software, download, router etc but don't know how to spell cat.


Or give them regular workplace lessons - less expensive nowadays than you think and tax deductible!

True - I know one company that hired a good, reliable Polish teacher for roughly 3000zl a month (the cost to them) - the appeal of umowa o prace for an English teaching job that isn't in a public school is very appealing.

Beats me why more companies don't simply hire one or tw o in-house teachers rather than relying on language schools, actually.

particularly when Poland is full of English teachers who would give their right arm not to work as English teachers

many graduates of English do not want to be doomed to have to spend the rest of their lives regurgitating last year's lessons in a state school

and would be very happy to man the photocopier, proof read sales materials and tidy up their colleagues English emails. This is the
first rung on the ladder to being a junior project manager or marketing assistant

Yes please, expat...


These expats...


Interesting... what kind of grant is that ?

Anyway, Poles are far from perfect in case of foreign languages but still there are far more people fluent in English than number of jobs where speaking English is really essencial... so, the problem is on your company... you expect people here to fix it ?

but it's your own business? Odd.

Probably you don't understand English very well yourself. Never in my posts have I even hinted at the fact that PF'ers can solve my problem, am I right? I have just been describing a situation. And the fact that I am looking for people with English skills might hint at the fact that speaking English in this position is kind of important ... ? Just a guess ... :S


No rozumienic, it's not my own company. I wrote <my company> cause I don't want to spell the name here. Although quite a few people know which company I am talking about.

Quite high, given that they would most probably use words such as 'leader', 'team' and 'upgrade' in their work but not the word 'family'.


There are only two indefinite articles in the quote!

Hardly surprises me to be honest - and confirms my feelings that these companies are only in Wroclaw with the help of some massive grants.

As for you, Grzegorz - I see the sour grapes are still...sour with you.

I thought I counted 4 but there ya go.
Anyway..more to the point.....if Stu's company wants people to talk on the phone why is he complaining about their written English?

Well ... maybe because they have to write something in ticketing systems ... ? And it should be understandable for their colleagues ... . And for me ... .

Maybe they have to respond to the customer by email?

Just a few ideas ... .

Oh OK I see, fair enough.
Maybe advertise for someone with FCE, as well as a degree, they must exist....
Matura test for English seems a bit low for this kind of thing it is true. But then isn't it only equivalent to GCSE? Or will that start another debate?

I wonder how well a British kid with GCSE French say, could do.
No doubt that school test standards are not great anywhere.

I'd suggest CAE. Although FCE is a great all-round intermediate level exam, the speaking element doesn't require much for a pass. If Stu insists on a B or an A at CAE, he can be pretty sure he'll get someone who can answer the phone and write e-mails.

More adequate CPE or at least CAE.


I'm sorry to tell you that but egzamin gimnazjalny (Stu's wife is checking it) is the equivalent of GCSE. Matura would be the "equivalent" of A-levels but take into account that Matura is devided into two levels: basic and extended. Basic is indeed basic :)

Just a quick observation here, guys! Standardized testing, whether it be for English, foreign lang., math, science etc.. rarely measure true ability, but merely rote memorization of fromulae. Plenty of people can learn a foreign language without relying on outmoded and repetitive examinations, often designed by bureaucrats, NOT teachers.

In the case of languages rote learning is good.

But not mind-numbing drill, a.k.! The latter simply stresses repetition, once again, instead of functional ability in non-scholastic situations, e.g. going to the store, an unexpected encounter/altercation on the street etc....

Can I sit in when you teach this next time? Sounds like fun.

But that's how exactly Polish Nowa Matura exam looks like now. Especially spoken part when you get role playing tasks.


On matura it's called "negotiations" ;)