House prices in Poland to drop more or rise again?

Please keep it up, a lot of truth in what you say, you forgot to mention the fact that you need your place as secure as Fort Knox to protect yourself from the local disparates!


Who is going to buy these properties, I don't think the local population, are you suggesting that the Brits will come on mass and start buying Polish properties.

majatekThreads: -
Posts: 1
Joined: Apr 27, 10
Gender: Male Yesterday, 13:10 / #185
I have been buying property in Poland during the past couple of years.

What an honest post I can really relate to everything you say. Have you only been buying properties whats is like when trying to sell a rural property?

Please keep it up, a lot of truth in what you say, you forgot to mention the fact that you need your place as secure as Fort Knox to protect yourself from the local disparates!

I know what you mean I have a ten foot fence, the around my house with 30ft trees inside the fence. Electric gates and and a camera on the gate. Oh yes and two crazy dogs on the lose in the garden.

Where did I imply that the British would be coming to buy properties in Poland?. I only posted a report from the Warsaw Business Journal and stated that prices in the UK were on the way up. Whether this will continue or there is going to be another correction in prices, I would not care to guess. I personally don't give a s**t who buys the properties. Just stating the facts as they are reported.

Great post Majatek. :)

Wasn't having a go, but making a point that overseas business interest in Poland doesn't always help the average Pole. Most famous brand Polish companies as indeed breweries are in the hands of foreigners, has this helped the plight of the average Pole, by looking at how much prices have gone up in comparison to income,obviously not.

Exactly the same has happened in the UK, water, electricity, gas and even waste collection is all owned by foreign companies. Prices for the above utilities have increased by some 50% over the past 4 years and the government has no control over what is charged, is is not just Poland that is suffering. You have to question any government that would sell off a nations assets that are needed for the basic survival of its people.

What's the game with some guys on this forum are they delusional?? Spin Docs for the real estate developers?? victims of the straw man argument??mistaking blips for signs of long term recovery.. and who the fcuk is Mark??chrismartenson.com/crashcourse/chapter-15-bubbles

The problem being the disconnect with the discontent of your customers. Those companies only take action when they've passed the tipping point and begin losing money.

milkyThreads: -
Posts: 30
Joined: Oct 26, 09
Gender: Male
Mar 14, 10, 21:03 / #6


Well, you have waited a year now, has the price of property dropped 50%?. Have you bought a property in Poland?. Nobody is being dilusional, its just that we have not seen the crash that you have. Perhaps you can provide some facts to back up your statements.


How can these companies lose money?, they have a monopoly and a captive consumer market.
If you do not pay their asking price, where else can you go?

That's kind of what I mean, they will react to the changes much slower than someone closer to the community. Way more people will have their water shut off before the company actually seriously reacts.

Yet another reason why regulation and monopolies aren't a good thing..

I asked a complex question straw man in relation to the Polish situation. My priorities are simple and honest unlike some lol.. I would like to purchase a property in Poland when the prices are sober again.. I will wait for the bluff to end. The prices are going down but only a mad man would buy now. I have queries as states above in previous text and I will take a jump into the dark but not in relation to buying property. There is a difference between risk and absolute stupidity. Life in Poland is hard enough never mind with the noose of super inflated mortgage around your neck for a couple of decades. Im here in Ireland with half a country in tears because they fell for the hype and spin of the vultures and their little lackies in parliament. Anyhow the way the EU is going at the moment maybe europe as a whole will be in the dark so there will be no need for me to make a jump it'll be dark already.By the way its a blip...blip blip in relation to Britain stop reading the expert opinion of tabloids lol.

Milky, who are you calling a "straw man" you dumb mick. What do you know about Poland?, do you live here? Again, I ask you to provide links/facts that prices will crash 50% in Poland. You asked a "complex question", but, you did not get the answer you wanted to hear. You are the one who believes what the doom mongers like polsky predicted. You were on these threads last year, are you angry because it still has not happened?

Below is information provided by the Nationwide Building society, who, to the best of my knowledge do not print newspapers.


The prices are not what people are asking. They are taken from the records of HMCR stamp duty and land registry information on property sold (not being sold).

Too true, that is why people are not investing in Polish Real Estate.... it is a great paradox that people living in the west shake there heads and say why bother dealing with such nonsense and ask the question why is real estate more expensive than in my country.

Did you really understand what majatek had posted? He is not talking about "normal housing" to live in, he is referring to what would be regarded as palaces and mansions with a lot of land, not, the type of properties that you and milky seem to think are overpriced, you are talking about a home for yourselves to bring up a family, he is talking about pure investment. Any price will be "too much" for him as he wants to maximise his profits when he sells on. Are you and milky looking to buy a house or apartment with sitting tenants?

majatek

"Every pile of rubble is now described as having the potential to become a hotel, sauna, health spa etc - and what appears to be a favourite, that you could breed race horses there! And, of course, these 'wonderful business opportunities' (piles of rubble) have prices to match - anything up to eight million zloty!!!!"

"And then there are the sitting tenants!"

"The fact that you are the new OWNER of the 'big house' will class you as the latest in a long line of capitalist oppressors!"

"The historic buildings konservator will also see you as a rich uncle."

A mate of mine who is a journalist for a local newspaper in the lovely land of saints and scholars told me that sponsors for the paper would pull out if they printed the facts about the property bubble bursting. So they all went along with the scam and only printed lies to maintain the illusion. Now that it is burst and splattered all over the land they are all printing story's about how fcuked up everything is and how nobody saw it coming. The bubble in Poland is a lot worse than anything here but there are some who wouldn't notice a bubble even if their dumb ass was submerged in a bubble-bath.

And you still fail to provide any links or proof of what you say.

Avalon, I respect your post and don't doubt that a lot you say is close to the mark, however I just feel you tend to speak for the property developers and not see the flight of the average home buyer. Real Estate is a type of ponzi scheme in the sense that if all homes in Poland went on the market today, the homes would be worth nothing. (like in the US) The current property prices in Poland more so in the big cities are controlled by Real Estate Agents and property developers, there has to be a readjustment, otherwise the vast majority of poles will be out of reach of ever securing a property. Poland will never be a rich country, not because it is not a highly intelligent nation (which it is) but because it has nothing to sell to the world, like mineral resources, it is only a feeder. It is interesting to note that since the recession the value of the zlote to the US dollar has gone down, which could indicate that less dollars coming in are pushing the value of the dollar up, also the price of the dollar was just over 2 zlote a couple of years ago and is now worth just under 3 zlote, which indicates that prices of real estate in dollar value has gone down some 30%.

Our correspondent Majatek has hit the nail on the head with his comments, he tells as he sees.

Just bought a lot on the the countryside, after having made my experience in the Polish property market and seen that prices are still decreasing in Cracow as well as in Warsaw.

I recognised that lots of questionable people are in the Polish market as well as in other European markets...so what?
Waiting for a mortgage loan now I can only contribute to this discussion that it doesn't matter where you live in these days because business has become an international face and I am not sure whether the Polish market has its own rules....speculation is only interesting for those who want to destroy the European stability of the last decades. I have made my decision for Poland.

There are plenty of article about prices going down and they have been discussed already.
The same was here in Ireland at the start,independent journalist could talk about the drop in prices but the government lackies where like the guys in the Albert Camus novel denying that the plague had started. The ESRI and all the experts were constantly releasing statistic facts about the health of Irish property and economy just like they are now releasing sh1te about how the recession will end by the end of 2011 or beginning of 2012.Poland is a lot different as its property market is not based on the Polish economy.

My question as stated already was simply...
I hear that the prices are very slow to drop in the eastern part of Poland as this is where there is the highest emigration and in countrys like Czech Republic the prices are crashing because they didnt have such mass migration to England and Ireland etc. Crashing back to normality for the average worker in the country.

The internet especially in the english language is absolutely full of sights stating that the property in Poland is strong and still showing signs of growth and this is all backed by stats from reliable experts with government blessing.The chicago boys are strong into polish property.

Agreed, you need to be careful.


It all comes down to the above (be careful) really, I have viewed many a historic property and many are in run down rural areas far away from main roads with poor neghbours. Many piles of (rubble) are not even worth 1 Euro as the renovation costs would be millions. Structure is and has been my main concern followed by roof condition.

As an owner im sure that does happen but hasnt been my experience at all. My local community are honest hard working people most have nice houses and employment to match. Sure i throw some work to the locals every now and again but that would only be chopping wood or gardening work for the local lads.


If you buy with tenants its your problem the government namely ANR havent legally been able to sell historic properties with sitting tenants for years. They re house them then sell.

Every historic property owner is worried about the conservator and thats not exclusive to Poland, again we have an excellent relationship and the odd box of chocolates and bottles of whie pay huge dividends. They can make life very difcult so best stay on their good side.

Prices in Poland are an issue and i would say the best way to price is based on m2, take into consideration type, age, location and price accordingly. With historic its infinetly more complicated as they often have large amounts of land with out buildings.


At the end of the day it all comes down to how much somebody is willing to pay, who are you to claim they are mistaken?


Not really it depends on many things, the biggest issue at the moment is the market and lack of mortgages. However if you want to pin point profit and loss, the over riding factor is timing.

Lets wait and see what happens.

I am not sure - milky - if one can say it generally, that prices are falling. We decided against Warsaw last year because we felt a big bubble. You are probably right with you clear opinion. There is much speculation in the market and all negotiations we had there were characterised by the try to sell flats quickly. When checking the contract our lawyer said a clear no to sign in because there were so many questionable parts in the contract. The last what I heard was that big buildings like the Angel City in Cracow are still empty. There is obviously no demand at the moment.

Of course, where are the big interests? Of course, the interest is that the large banks and the large corporations owning thousands of unsold apartaments, to get rid of them at huge bubble inflated current prices.

Like for example 600 000 zl for few walls in a big coffin (like many of the
new buildings really are).


Just Angel City?

95% of the newly built apartments in Cracow are empty !!!

They look like ghost-towns.

The price of building a block of flats it is about 15% of the price the developers are selling at.

Developers like the very agressive Avalon here... who is desperate at losing his profits when he cannot find any more suckers

Maybe something will give soon,how long will the greed dogs hold onto their illusion?

They learned that with well chosen lies, you can brainwash many naive people into thinking that it is actually normal for a person to pay 2000 zl every MONTH for HIS ENTIRE LIFE (next 35 years) just for few walls...

The cost of building is around 500 ZL / sq.m., but the greedy developers sell it at 12 000 ZL / sq.m.

It scares me that in this day and age people can still be manipulated by a few cliches(rent money is dead money etc etc). I understand that coercive advertisement is all about looking for some sucker to empty his pockets, but to agree to enter a life of super inflated mortgage slavery, so some some gangster banker-developer can change his Mercedes-Benz S-Class every year because he his sick of the color,this is scary. I know people who put more thought into getting a laptop than they did into the bubble house they bought. People did not even know that there was a bubble, they were more interested in Posh And Becks,Desperate Housewives and the bubbles on Scarlett Johansson (technologies of distraction). When someone like David Mcwilliams(prophets of Doom) was on TV or writing books about the inevitable coming crises they all(buyers) just transcended him in order to remain focused on their blind submission to the dominant cultural view perpetrated by the status quo and its business interests.

milky

You listen to your friend "Polsky", don't buy anything. Live in a tent, a cave, a forest or on the beach. Nobody cares. Better still, you can surely afford 500 PLN a m2, build you fekin own and get that idiot Polsky (M.Biernat) to move in with you.

I will pass your advice on to the couple that bought one of my flats over the weekend, we sign the contract on the 11th May. I advised them that they ought to wait for the prices to drop 50% but for some strange reason, they insist on buying now, still, it takes all sorts.

Ah well you know what they say an idiot is born every second. I'm sure your idiot buyers(if not fictional) had plenty of factual stats from the experts to justify their decision.

Ireland is far too cold for a tent but I know a lot of people up to their eyeballs in negative equity who would glad-fully risk a winter in a tent if it meant getting the banker-developer gun from their head....But its nice to hear that you are advising them on the logical alternative fair play to you MR developer your a heart of gold lol.

If Avalon is selling at the moment he must be doing something right! personally i think his prices are extremely fair.

You must hang around with those sorts of people then. As property in Ireland, at least in the north is selling cheap. Time now is to buy in Ireland.

Thank you WB. At least you you know something about property. Have you noticed that Mark Biernat is back again, he has dropped his building cost down to 500 PLN m2 now, what a pratt.