I am in the process of viewing properties for sale with my wife. I am British and my wife is Polish. We have already seen quite a few houses and have more to see tomorrow. An estate agent who is dealing with us tomorrow mentioned to my wife that we may have problems buying a house because I am British. We already knew about this and issues surrounding the purchase of farmland. Additionally the estate agent stated that whatever money we have to buy a property my wife must prove it belongs to her 100%. Any finance we have are proceeds from the sale of our previous house. We may decide to top this up with a small mortgage. I have no problems with my wife buying the house in her name because I was intending to arrange with the notaire to draw up a legal paragraph so that we each have 50% of any property we purchase. I presume that if my wife were to die before myself then any property we bought in her name would pass to me and vice versa. (we have no children) I am surprised to hear that my wife would have to prove that our joint financial assets do in fact belong to her as we have always shared anything we have earned over the years. This seems very odd to me and really difficult to comply with since everything we have is shared. I don't think that either of us can prove that we own our assets 100%..!! ..they are shared. We will be living off my pension and this will be the only income we have in Poland. We may decide to work but at present do not intend to do so. Can anyone who has also experienced this help provide a solution.
Walk away from that agent. He/she is talking nonsense (common story...) - and it should be a warning sign that they simply don't know what they're talking about.
This is not true, you can buy any property in Poland the same way you can have Polish bank account. I know there is a problem if land you are buying is for agro use or it is a forest. Then you will require a special permission of MSWiA.
There is one little thing which you need to check - your pension as this is form of income and if you are in Poland for over 183 days within a year you are required to pay tax in Poland. I'm not quite sure if you still need to pay it if you have retired hence why this need to be verified. That would be the best sort of information: mswia.gov.pl
And to be safe it would be sensible to obtain the permission from MSWiA as you stated if something happen to your wife in future you don't want someone from her family taking your family house. I know that this is less likely to happen but we are in Poland where everything can happen.
Maybe you should share the name of that agency with others so more of us can be aware of it. Sometimes it's a lack of knowledge but more often this can be read as a clear sign of jealousy... Which town have you picked? We didn't had any problems buying in Chrzanow and this was few years ago, we bought house which looked like a tradegy with excellent land, went through all building permissions, bureaucracy, etc but was worth it. Maybe you can consider that sort of scenario.
Someone I know who is about to retire just bought a property together with his missus. They bought theirs in the area around Kielce for a bargain directly from the landlord. If you are not buying commercial property stay far away from nieruchomosci. The person I know simply bought the property together with his wife and were never asked all those questions. Getting a mortgage is a different story altogether. It depends on how much you need to top up. If it's less than 15% of the total value a personal loan might be something worth considering. I bought my first flat, 10 years ago, from someone who was in arrears with spóldzielnia fees. It still remains the best property deal I've ever done up to now.
I bought my first flat, 10 years ago, from someone who was in arrears with spóldzielnia fees.
Happened recently with my wspólnota, but unfortunately, the guy was in such a mess financially that they wouldn't entertain any offers below 70% of the value of the property. Pity, because if his debt to the wspólnota was his only debt, we could've got the place for 30% of the market value :(
My wife and I bought a farm here in Poland two years ago, because of the current agricultural land laws I had to buy the farm in my name (I am a polish citizen), nobody asked me about the source of the money, we went to the notary signed and paid over the cash. I think the estate agent is talking rubbish.
If you are still concerned walk into any notary office and ask about the process they will put your mind at rest.
Thank you all for your responses and advice it really is appreciated. We will be raising the issue on buying farmland/building land soon. We have seen one or two houses we like although it may be that a house we have seen is on building land and the rest of the garden/land is possibly farmland. It would seem that the estate agent in question and others state that it is ok for my wife who is Polish to buy a house and farmland but I am only able to buy a house which is declared a house as a building plot. Some of the properties we have seen may have one or two plots separately identified (farm land/building plot). I am happy for my wife to purchase a house and farmland in her name....no problem....but some also say that the money used for this transaction including a small mortgage should be my wife's money. The bank we have approached are fine with granting a mortgage in both our names....not possible for my wife to have a mortgage solely in her name because the monthly income paying this off will come from my pension. We will get to the bottom of this one day.
Thank you all again for your help and experiences they are very helpful.
The restriction on buying farmland expires this year (2016) doesn't it?
The agents are not wrong, your wife will have to own it and pay for it with her money, she will have to state where it came from - family for instance. Its not a in depth investigation.
WEEG.... Thank you for your information. My wife will be more than happy to purchase the property in her name and we would probably have something legally drawn up to allow me to continue living at the property in the event of her death and vice versa. (we have no children) As far as my wife having to prove that she owns our money and not myself would you be able to provide any suggestions on what evidence we can put forward to support this. (our savings are from the sale of our last house) Traditionally we have always bought our houses with the sale of the previous one.
WEEG... I forgot to discuss the 2 May 2016 property reforms. Firstly do you know what the name is for the Statute or where I can find out more information on this. I am not sure what you mean when you mention this date....I presume that any Polish national can continue to buy farmland if they choose. Is this piece of legislation directed at European nationals such as myself and what are the proposed changes. I have read the link you provided and I have to confess it seems complicated. Thanks again.
Better ask the notary that will be handling the transfer. Every time we use them they are a wealth of information and since you are doing a transaction, the information is free.
Sometimes when people are asked to prove they saved money, you can use a bank statement showing the funds present. It doesnt matter if they were present years ago, as look as there is a record. Or if she for example sold a property in the UK in her name, that may suffice. But as I say, worth asking the notary.
We are quite flexible on where we buy. We have just returned from our house viewing trip from the region south of Krakow, Tarnow Rzeszow etc. We saw quite a few properties but nothing we really felt excited about. It is of course a long process so we will continue. We would prefer to be within reasonable travelling distance of the mountains so would equally be happy to live near to Karpacz or surrounding area. (but not sure if this is still possible) We like Krakow as a place to visit and to have easy access to but we will probably have to look further afield. We are now looking at places in the North of Poland near to Koszalin, Szczecinek which gives access to the north of Poznan. We have a budget of about 300k and I think that to overcome any bureaucratic requirements I will obtain permission as an EU national from the relevant authorities to purchase a house with a garden (not farmland) which will circumnavigate my wife having to prove that our savings belong only to her. Permission will also hopefully allow us to supplement our savings with a small mortgage which is in both our names. (My pension will pay for the mortgage) So all in all I feel it would be much easier to obtain permission to buy a house using our savings and incorporating our mortgage.
Karpacz is quite expensive but the surrounding regions are just a couple/few kilometres away and are a lot cheaper. Still there are huge variations in prices, some people put daft prices on houses/land. Being a foreigner their initial reaction will be to try to fleece you, but if you go cash in hand so to speak they often will kneel when they see the colour of your money. Always knock them down to a very low base as its a buyers market as prices have started to drift lower after a stable last year. A few years back both sides ballparked around 240k for a large piece of land a few km's from Karpacz, I hit them with 110k a few days later and all agreed at 180k after a few tears. But the guy bought for around 20K in the 80's so wasnt hard done by.
To Braveheart: Like your name says- you sure are brave! Keep on plugging away and never give into them bureaucratic lot. Very soon you will purchase your property with the missus.
But the guy bought for around 20K in the 80's so wasnt hard done by.
That's not correct at all. 20 000zl in the 80's was like 20zl today and you could buy only a nice coffee table with that. During that time individuals couldn't legally buy and sell land.
It may have been the 90's as yes before 89 you couldnt buy. I saw the original akt while at the notariusz and had a quick look at the price. He made a tidy some but not quite as much as he wanted. Technically I still overpaid (one of the few times no kontrola on price from urzad skarbowy after 5 years) as it was farmland at the time but became budowlane with the local plan zagospodorwania miasta a few years later. Now theres a biedronka built opposite it.
I am in the process of buying a house and would be grateful for advice on how things are done. We have already agreed a price with the sellers and I have left a small deposit with the estate agent as requested.
1) When do banks normally formally approve a mortgage? (we have already had initial approval from a bank for a mortgage but we need to return with all the usual documents for formal approval)
2) I have read that the initial deposit (5-10%) is normally made to the seller which sort of worries me as I am used to giving the deposit to a neutral party eg. estate agent/notaire.
3) At what point is the final payment for the house made and who to? (I have also read that banks will not release the money until the final signing of the sale and that this payment is made direct to the seller. This also concerns me because I am not sure how long the seller will have to wait until the payment arrives in his account. In the meantime my wife and I plus dog/cat and a car full of belongings will be waiting to receive the keys to the house)
4) We intend to ask for some conditions to be placed in the first contract eg. subject to mortgage approval and permission from the government to buy the property and maybe subject to searches. (I am a UK citizen currently living permanently in Poland) Is this something that is normally acceptable?
1) When do banks normally formally approve a mortgage?
Depends on the history between you and the bank but signing final umowa for bank loan can take up to 4 weeks, for foreign income loans can take 6 weeks.
2) I have read that the initial deposit (5-10%) is normally made to the seller which sort of worries me as I am used to giving the deposit to a neutral party eg. estate agent/notaire.
The deposit should be paid the the seller after a notary pre contract has been signed. That way it is classed as the deposit, otherwise the bank may refuse to recognise it as a payment in relation to the purchase. In any case this is payment is normally done after you have got clearance from the bank that you will get the loan. The agent of course will always press for a healthy deposit after precontract so that they can quickly get their agency fee, but I digress.
3) At what point is the final payment for the house made and who to?
The final payment is made either on the day of signing the contract, or by whenever is set by the terms of the final akt notarialny, usually 24-48 hours if cash. If bank loan we normally given people up to a month for the bank to make the transfer, but in practice it takes about a week. We did wait 14 days once. After signing the final aktyou should be given the keys to the property as there will be no reason for the bank not to pay the money due within the given time frame. I would certainly press to get the keys on the day as usually the notariusz will ask if keys have been handed over while reading the text of the akt to both parties. The only time the seller needs to insert precautions into the akt/ksiega wieczysta(deeds) is for cash deals where payment is to be made a number of days after the final act and where the buyer is considered to have "questionable morals" in regards to keeping up their end of the deal. Again I digress.
4) We intend to ask for some conditions to be placed in the first contract
Once you sign the precontract and pay a deposit you will be obliged to complete the transaction by the date set in the precontract, normally about 2 months. If you have been to the bank and have been told officially that you will get a loan, then you can go ahead. If it has just been the case of a basic talk with their financial adviser then I would wait to get an official decision from the bank. This step is called getting a pozytywa decyzja. Once you have this you can go ahead. Be careful re the terms of the deposit. eg a zadatek is non refundable, while a zaliczka is refundable.
To Braveheart: Seems like you almost there mate. Just a word of caution, though- initial approval without the hard copies of all the required documents, especially in your case, doesn't mean anything. I never used estate agents and would never recommend paying any deposits to them before you get the positive decision from the bank. Otherwise, Polishinvestor has nailed it for you. Let us know how it goes, mate!
Polishinvestor - Thank you very much for your detailed response which is of course really helpful and gives me a better idea on what to expect and general procedures.
Buggsey - Thank you again for your support and advice it is much appreciated.
I was just a little concerned that if having handed over the deposit to the seller he decides to pull out and the difficulty I may have in getting my deposit back....the courts are of course an option but this could take a long time to resolve and cost me more money. Perhaps this rarely happens and I am just looking too much into this. The seller seems to be decent enough in any event.
This is why you sign a pre contract at the notary. Normally the buyer makes you pay a non refundable zadatek, so if you pull out, the deposit is lost, but if he pulls out, he is required to repay you double the deposit and this you can take to court to uphold if necessary.
Non-Refundable deposit is only in case the buyer is buying out right with cash,if bank is involved,some time period is specified and a clause added "subject to bank loan approval".Deposit is refunded if the bank loan is not procured within the specified period of time.
One can also ask the notary to keep the deposit in that case in his/her escrow.
As a cash buyer 3 years ago I can confirm that our initial deposit was refunded in full, the seller stated that the new property was connected to mains drainage, this was not in fact the case as we found out from our lawyers/ surveyors. The seller and developer tried to have us agree to pay just 50% of the required 'septic tank' installation.
We refused, our deposit was refunded by the seller whilst we were in the developers office the same day. You can have anything you want written into the contract so long as both partys agree and they are legal.
Thats the key, you are bound by what you agree to when signing precontract. The terms zadatek and zaliczka are often misunderstood as being the same.
Of course if the seller provides false or inaccurate information which materially alters the value of the property its grounds to void the precontract. Technically when you by a property you are stating that you are aware of the condition and nature of the property, but false information from the seller is enough to get the contract voided.
Essentially you must not take anyones word for anything and demand documentation for anything that can materially alter the value of a property. It often ****** them off but its currently a buyers market so they generally have to say how high when you ask them to jump.
Hello if you still looking for property in Poland I have very nice land in Poland and is best to place to live in Poland. This land is very close to Krynica-Zdroj, a city located in the Malopolska province, is the pearl of Polish health resorts and one of the most important resorts in the country. This is a unique place born of natural beauty, rich culture and captivating traditions, which for more than 220 years delights and steals the hearts of visitors from Polish and the world. Krynica place a vibrant cultural scene, where, surrounded by pristine nature should find time for active recreation. The city, which draws its strength from the therapeutic waters and a place where everyone can find a moment to relax in a well prepared base SPA.
In winter, waiting here very well prepared slopes on Jaworzyna, which has the longest lit route in Poland, ski slopes with chairlift at Słotwiny, Arena Słotwiny, the extract Henry in the city center and two lifts in Tylicz: Master Ski and Tylicz Ski. 6 ski stations makes the total capacity is 28,000 skiers per hour. This year has enriched its offer with Krynistler Snowpark longest and biggest in Poland.
