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Let's talk about Sweden and other Scandinavian countries


Rustygun - | 6
11 Sep 2016  #61
Not really an insult so to speak, more so a category of a given mentality. Granted every culture has its differences, but to avoid out-right bad mouthing a given country should be a hallmark of maturity. Personally I found Poland to be an enlightened country, full of history, and its struggles have forged a tough people. if one had to choose to live in Europe, then Poland would do just fine. At present I live in Stockholm, and have had a good life here.
mafketis 20 | 7,243
11 Sep 2016  #62
At present I live in Stockholm, and have had a good life here.

Are you Swedish?

I've long been kind of interested in Scandinavian languages and culture but I don't think I could ever live there. Also more and more all of western Europe seems kind of.... off. The places I'm most interested in now are almost all east of the German/Italian language areas.
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
11 Sep 2016  #63
@Maf, Swedish is probably the most widely-spoken of the extant Scandinavian languages aka the most "practical":-) It's also spoken in much of urban Finland, and was at one time more popular then English, German or Russian.

Most Swedes up till round about sixty-five or over, speak (or at least THINK they speak) nearly fluent conversational English, often with even a slight American-style accent, compared, say, with the Danes, Germans or Dutch, who often sound rather British!

Swedes on the whole are critical of foreigners who speak their language, as relatively few non-Swedes actually have bothered to learn it, thus, are liable to be a bit on the corrective side concerning mistakes.

I too speak several Scandinavian languages, though find Swedish to be far and away the most melodic.
Polson 5 | 1,771
11 Sep 2016  #64
though find Swedish to be far and away the most melodic.

Sjuksköterska. This one almost sounds Polish ;)
Wulkan - | 3,251
11 Sep 2016  #65
You need to up your insults, 'mother's basement' is not an insult in Poland where people never live in basement's

That's the clear indicator that it's some old troll coming back with different user name.

I too speak several Scandinavian languages

:-)))))))))))

Anyhow. Sweden's days are numbered. It used to be nice country up to 20 years ago. Strange times we live in.

youtube.com/watch?v=EwSqSvMmkGA

good old Sweden
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
12 Sep 2016  #66
Indeed, Polson!

Oddly enough, I once heard a youngish woman speaking to her American husband in English, and her accent reminded me uncannily of Ingrid Bergman.
I happened to address her in Swedish, quite by happenstance, and it turned out she was from Poznań:-)
Rustygun - | 6
12 Sep 2016  #67
Actually im new to this forum, (no old troll) I joined because I plan to invest in Poland, by building several houses in gdanse. And yes I speak Swedish, thus my reaction to people bashing the country.
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
12 Sep 2016  #68
To which country are you referring, Rusty? Sweden or Poland?
:-)
Wulkan - | 3,251
13 Sep 2016  #69
gdanse.

No such a place in Poland
Rustygun - | 6
13 Sep 2016  #70
(my apologies for tke spelling) Gdansk
mafketis 20 | 7,243
13 Sep 2016  #71
I plan to invest in Poland, by building several houses in gdans

How is it that you expect this to be profitable? For who?

How do you plan on navigating Polish bureaucracy (which is not noted for being user friendly)?

Poland is basically a great place to live, but you don't necessarily want to visit there. It can be great in the long run but the short run is going to feature a lot of adjustment and/or frustrations. A _lot_ depends on knowing the language well enough to deal with the bureaucracy on your own without a translator or lawyer around. The chance of bureaucrats (or lawyers!) knowing English well enough to provide you with good advice and/or accurate information is not... high. A random translator is liable to not know legal terminology well enough to be much use either.

I don't want to sound too discouraging but Poland is not really a country that can be that profitable on the basis of occasional visits...
Atch 17 | 2,861
13 Sep 2016  #72
Did the OP say that he only plans to visit occasionally?? I don't see how he could set up a construction and development company on that basis.

Poland is basically a great place to live, but you don't necessarily want to visit there.

That's funny! I'd say the exact opposite. A wonderful place for a holiday but not that great a place to live for various reasons.

without a translator

And they're a mixed bag. Their spoken English is frequently anything but fluent, very halting and hesitant and their verbal translations are sometimes not completely accurate. I remember once using a translator for something (I was required to by law to use one for the business in hand) and he mistranslated something I'd said. It was something quite basic (which was how I could tell he'd cocked it up!) so God only knows what a mess he may have made of the more complicated stuff. To be fair I don't think he made a mistake so much as took liberties in unnecessarily paraphrasing what I'd said, but it resulted in an inaccurate statement. Anyway the business didn't need to proceed any further so there were no dire consequences. But all the same........
mafketis 20 | 7,243
13 Sep 2016  #73
A wonderful place for a holiday but not that great a place to live

A lot depends on knowing the language (well above functional level, being able to understand the nightly news and able to read newspapers and fiction are kind of a must), having a job (or some kind of purposeful activity) and some social contacts (not just other foreigners and not just Polish people) and living in a decent sized city. With one of those missing it can be a long, hard haul, but with those it's just fine. I know lots of people who planned on being in Poland for just a year or so and stayed for much longer.

And they're a mixed bag. Their spoken English is frequently anything but fluent,

Well translator/interpreter training / certification in Poland leaves a lot to be desired in any number of ways (but that's a separate topic for me to rant about).
Marsupial - | 888
13 Sep 2016  #74
I was never interested in Sweden because of the weather. Spoiled by Australian weather. More than that when the opportunity arrived we couldn't think of any reason to go there. Nothing we wanted to see or do, couldn't think of a single thing and still cannot to this day. We actually came to the conclusion that sweden and most the other nordic countries sounded boring. Since that which was 6 years ago various people have corrected us and pointed out some things. We thought those people were also boring.

You can run a business in poland with few visits only but....only later if its set up and you have good people and not at first. Had to spend the time first, can't see that we would have ever succeed without spending the time.
Rustygun - | 6
13 Sep 2016  #75
My best friend is Polish, and owns 10000sm of property with all the permits in hand. We will develop this venture as a partnership, the water and sewer are already in, with 8 separat house places.

We work together here in sweden with the construction trade, so we have the knowledge to see the project through. Perhaps some of you are familier with the company who will supply the houses,? Sendom is the contractors name, and we hope to begin within next month.
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
13 Sep 2016  #76
Didn't you find that it was helpful knowing Swedish, Rustygun?
Rustygun - | 6
13 Sep 2016  #77
Of course, I think if one lives in another country, you should learn the language. Swedish is rather complected, at least in its grammar, plus I came here rather late in life, which slows the learning process.
mafketis 20 | 7,243
13 Sep 2016  #78
Swedish is rather complected, at least in its grammar

For an English speaker (esp if they know some German) the mainland Scandinavian languages are super easy to learn to read (speaking, understanding and writing will be harder).

And Polish grammar makes Swedish grammar look positively non-existent....
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
13 Sep 2016  #79
Sure does:-)

Isn't it true though how the more complicated the language aka grammar, the more conservative and above all, homogeneous, the speakers, e.g. Polish, Icelandic, Lithuanian, Finnish etc? It's been theorized that ancient peoples who felt themselves especially threatened by surrounding hostile populations used the difficulty of their native tongue almost as a protective shield against perceived enemy forces around them. If their speech seemed impenetrable to outsiders, they could more easily protect themselves from harm.

Sorta make sense?
NoToForeigners 6 | 984
15 Nov 2016  #80
Scandinavians are idiots.

They let minorities rule their countries.

They remove physics and mathematics from schools and introduce lessons that are about group not the individual developement. After that change goes live you will have ZERO chance for another Einstein or Max Planck to emerge.

sciencealert.com/no-more-physics-and-maths-finland-to-stop-teaching-individual-subjects

They let 6 year old children decide about their gender regardless of if they have a penis or vagina.
thestar.com/life/2016/09/27/changing-your-gender-in-norway-as-easy-as-filing-a-tax-return.html

Scandinavia is leftist, liberał Hell on Earth.
Atch 17 | 2,861
15 Nov 2016  #81
They remove physics and mathematics from schools and introduce lessons that are about group not the individual developement

I don't think you read the article you linked to, from Science Alert which states:

Finland already has one of the best education systems in the world, consistently falling near the top of the prestigious PISA rankings in maths, science and reading, and this change could very well help them stay there.

Perhaps you read it but didn't really understand it. Also did you read the full article in The Independent?

What Finland is proposing is actually not a new idea. I'm a Montessori trained teacher for kids up to 12 and Maria Montessori designed 'the integrated curriculum' or cosmic education as she called it back in the 1930s. It has been used succesfully in numerous Montessori schools around the world where the standard of maths and science is generally considerably higher than in mainstream schools. The integrated approach can be used from the age of six upwards if and only if, the child has received a solid maths foundation from the age of three and has attained an understanding of the concept of ten in all its operations by the age of six.

In Finland, which has a high standard of educational attainment, they are introducing the integrated approach for students aged sixteen up at which point they already have their foundation. It's basically about applying existing mathematical knowledge acquired by the child, to real world situations. It doesn't mean that maths and science won't be taught anymore. As a matter of fact if maths are properly taught to a child from the age of three, they can complete all the basics of arithmetic, algebra and geometry including theorems by the age of twelve.
NoToForeigners 6 | 984
15 Nov 2016  #82
As a matter of fact if maths are properly taught to a child from the age of three, they can complete all the basics of arithmetic, algebra and geometry including theorems by the age of twelve.

I call BS. Please show me a proof of an average ordinary kid solving General Relativity Theory and Quantum Mechanics equations at the age of 12 or even 16. Im waiting.

Additionally i have read the articles i LinkedIn before. In the system they propose young humans after the age of 16 wont be taught maths and physics at all. Theyll end up in a group simulation of for example a coffee house business. They will be taught no Theory but just applying it to Real situation. Thats why i said there will be no possibility for another Einstein, Planck or Nils Bohr to emerge from system like that. Those people will become business owners, workers etc.
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
15 Nov 2016  #83
If you bothered to look at the latest PISA-study, Finland was found to be number 2 (TWO!!!!) throughout Europe, perhaps the world, in terms of literacy, solid general education, and foreign language acquisition:-) Number 1 was Iceland, no surprise.

Poland was number 15, Germany of all places, nearly the same, maybe lower!!
Atch 17 | 2,861
15 Nov 2016  #84
I call BS

Well with respect, I'm not a theorist. I'm a teacher so I have practical experience of this, and for example I've taught the trinomial formula to six year olds who when they return to it in abstract form at the age of twelve actually understand it and they're not mathematical geniuses by any means. Here's an example of geometry in the integrated curriculum of Montessori:

montessori-europe.com/node/269

General Relativity Theory and Quantum Mechanics equations

I said 'the basics' of algebra and geometry.

after the age of 16 wont be taught maths and physics at all.

I'm quite certain that any sixteen year old who is capable of studying advanced maths will be facilitated in doing so.
NoToForeigners 6 | 984
16 Nov 2016  #85
'm quite certain that any sixteen year old who is capable of studying advanced maths will be facilitated in doing so.

Thing is the resolution doesnt say anything like that. It says that there will be no maths nor physics after the age of 16 and both subjects are the most important sience there is and all other are the result of those two (especially physics).
Atch 17 | 2,861
16 Nov 2016  #86
I understand your reservations but you're making a very hasty response to something about which we have very little information. You're making the assumption, because you havent' read otherwise, that maths and physics will no longer be taught at all after the age of sixteen and clearly this will not happen. Why not? Because Finland, like any other country, needs to produce a certain number of mathematicians and physicists and needs a certain number of people with more advanced skills in those subjects for related professions.

Finland has an excellent record in education and there is every reason to suppose that they will continue to provide advanced tuition for those students with aptitude and interest in science and maths. However, I imagine that such tuition will no longer take place in school, but will be farmed out, as it were, with some kind of arrangement being made with universities to run external courses/maths and science labs for selected upper secondary students who intend to study those subjects at third level later on. It seems to me to be a very sensible proposal.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
16 Nov 2016  #87
Number 1 was Iceland, no surprise.

Do you know why? its such a small town/country that they can fake the results of anything to show themselves in a good light.

In reality, Iceland is a corrupt mafia controlled country, descended from a Stalinist economy during the Cold War.
Atch 17 | 2,861
16 Nov 2016  #88
Ok, so here's a bit more information for you.

ncee.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Finland-Education-Report.pdf

'the mathematics content required in lower secondary school (our grades 7-10) is comparable to the average American high school graduate's course of study.'

Grades 7-10 in Finland is fourteen to sixteen years old at which point compulsory education ends and most people choose either upper secondary or vocational school, though vocational school doesn't stop you from applying for university when you finish there.

Let's take a look at the present advanced (as opposed to basic) maths curriculum in Finnish upper secondary school which starts at age 16 and where the changes will be made:

'by completing the advanced syllabus in mathematics, Finnish students have completed math coursework similar to that of a U.S. college math
major.'


Now, what you were not aware of, but what I discovered within a few minutes of googling (because being a teacher I know what to search for in this case) is that whilst making those changes at the upper end of the education system, they will be making another radical change at the pre-school level, and not before time. Maths teaching in Finland will now begin from the age of three and the reason for this is that despite the high standards of the secondary advanced maths syllabus, students entering university to take up maths degrees are struggling with certain very basic concepts. This supports what I was explaining to you earlier and what Montessori discovered over a century ago through her observations and work with thousands of children over fifty years, which is that, the basics are most easily acquired before the age of six through concrete learning. I expect to see Finnish pre-schools using, if not Montessori's materials, then their own adaptations of them.

Do you know it's possible to teach the squares and cubes of number with concrete materials? While children at the pre-school age are not able to verbalize these concepts, they can represent them. Through the use of short and long bead chains, number squares and cubes, and numeral arrows, the Montessori Bead Cabinet concretely demonstrates these concepts.

For example the hundred bead chain of ten bars each comprised of ten beads, can be physically folded into a square of 100 beads, thus ten 'squared' is 100.

montessoritraining.blogspot.com/2012/04/bead-cabinet.html

And years later when the child encounters squaring and cubing in the maths curriculum they remember working with the chains and they understand what they're doing when they square or cube a number. That's why research shows that children who attend a proper Montessori pre-school do better at maths in mainstream secondary than children who attended conventional pre-school.
Atch 17 | 2,861
16 Nov 2016  #89
they can fake the results of anything

That would require quite a bit of time and effort including collaboration between test centres and the external markers who re-check all previously marked papers. Those markers have the physical test papers in their hands so it would thus be necessary to either get them to come on board in a major fraud, or produce an entire set of falsified test papers to hand over to them, and where would the educational authorities get them from, as they're only supplied with the necessary number of test booklets in the first place?? And they're not easy to reproduce. They'd have to have them specially printed.

This might help you to make a more informed decision about the possibilites of faking test results:

oecd.org/pisa/pisaproducts/PISA%202012%20Technical%20Report_Chapter%207.pdf

latest PISA-study, Finland was found to be number 2 (TWO!!!!) throughout Europe, perhaps the world, in terms of literacy, solid general education, and foreign language acquisition:-) Number 1 was Iceland, no surprise.

Lyzko where did you get those figures from? PISA was last administered in 2015 and the results will be published a couple of weeks from now. The most recent results are from 2012 as they only administer the test every three years. Finland was the highest in Europe in terms of literacy, with Ireland at number two. Iceland was a considerable distance below either, in fact they came below the OECD average score. Mabye you're confusing it with UNESCO literacy estimates which is a different thing entirely as it simply estimates literacy in the adult population of countries.
Lyzko 23 | 6,529
16 Nov 2016  #90
Perhaps it was the UNESCO survey, you could be right.


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