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Being a Slav: a blessing or a curse?


Crnogorac3  3 | 658
16 Feb 2017   #151
@Atch

Serbian band that plays Irish music - Orthodox Celts

youtube.com/watch?v=HEt2XdN_TbQ

Star Of The County Down

youtube.com/watch?v=K9RMvHFcUh8

Far Away

youtube.com/watch?v=GSrA7S3p4Ds

Green Roses

youtube.com/watch?v=77N8ijdSFdQ

Wearing of the Green
Crnogorac3  3 | 658
16 Feb 2017   #152
Aleksandar Petrović aka "Aca Celtic"

youtube.com/watch?v=xpfAzj-f9IE

Despot - Tamo Gde Samuju Vukovi (There where the wolves are lonely)

youtube.com/watch?v=w3VQdGo23iE

Orthodox Celts are the main reason I go to Belgrade Beerfest ever year
Atch  22 | 4204
16 Feb 2017   #153
Thanks for that Crnog :)

It's quite weird to hear it sung with that fabulously foreign accent! There's a Serbian Irish dance troupe too. They're very good. I don't know how authentic the Orthodox Celts want to be, our whether they want to put their own spin on the style but that song should be sung with a lilting rhythm, not so 'straight' if you know what I mean. If you're interested, here's a version by the Irish Rovers which is quite similar in its arrangement but you will hear that it swings' a lot more. I wonder how the Serbian band learned the tunes, just from avaialbe recordings I suppose, have they ever been to Ireland do you know? They'd get a great welcome.

youtube.com/watch?v=Gqrf-T9q0Vk

Have you ever seen this Irish band from the seventies, Horslips, with their kind of Celtic rock thing? They did original stuff with themes inspired by the Celtic legends. People either love them or hate them, the hair, the flares, a thing of legend indeed, one of them looks as if he's wearing his sister's necklace :D

youtube.com/watch?v=y5G8AJf4Xzw
Ziemowit  14 | 3936
16 Feb 2017   #154
The most recent hypothesis as outlined in the BBC series "The Celts: Blood, Iron and Sacrifice" recently shown on the "Polsat ViaSat History" channel in Poland is that the Celtic people were moving from the west of Europe to the east of Europe rather than vice versa as it is commonly believed.
Crow  154 | 9242
17 Feb 2017   #155
Slavic (ie Celtic, ie Sarmatian, ie Thracian,...) migrations were for eons, on a large scale, initiated mainly by the periods of glaciations (Ice Ages). So, movements in which Europe was several times re-populated (last time some 12.000 years ago) were from Ice age refugium areas on Balkan and Crimea, along the great rivers deeper in European inland. As a rule, those movements were in direction from South-East to North and West and from East to West of Europe.

On a ``smaller`` scale, war sufferings always were reasons for movement of populations. For example, when Romans led by Julius Caesar committed genocide in Galija killing back in that time about 3 million people, for sure that scattered remains of population started to move mainly eastward. Why eastward? Well, seeking shelter among their kin people. Because East/South-East was still (same as today) under Sarmatian/Celtic control, out of Roman reach. Or take Dacians for example. When Romans committed genocide on them killing more then 1 million people, many from there migrated on western Balkan mountains, to the North of Europe and also Eastward. Again, on territories out of Roman reach, to refugee among its kin people.

Sure, there were also natural seasonal migrations. Or migrations in connection with natural catastrophes. Then, there were sedentary tribes and nomad tribes, etc, etc,..
Crnogorac3  3 | 658
14 Mar 2017   #156
Tara Hill, Ireland - the site of coronation of Irish kings
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill_of_Tara
mythicalireland.com/ancientsites/tara

The Hill of Tara, known as Temair in gaeilge, was once the ancient seat of power in Ireland - 142 kings are said to have reigned there in prehistoric and historic times.

Saint Patrick is said to have come to Tara to confront the ancient religion of the pagans at its most powerful site.

Tara Mountain, Serbia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_(mountain)

Incidentally the people who live in this area in the vicinity of Tara mountain in Serbia refer to themselves as Ere (Era singular), while the name for Ireland in Irish is Eire.

Boyne River, Ireland
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Boyne

Bojana River, Crna Gora
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojana_(river)

Derwent River, Derbyshire
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Derwent,_Derbyshire

Derwent River, North East England
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Derwent,_North_East_England

Derwent River, Cumbria
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Derwent,_Cumbria

Derwent River, Yorkshire
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Derwent,_Yorkshire

Derventa town in Republika Srpska
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derventa

Derwent is derived from Brittonic river name *Deruentiū, Latinised as Deruentiō, meaning "(Belonging/Pertaining to the) Forest of Oak Trees"; the old river name survived in medieval Welsh poetry

* Researchers have discovered 4,000 Slavic/Serbian words in the Welsh language. The Welsh people are descendants of Celts.

Still more in-depth and conclusive hard factual evidence needed to convince me!

Language and toponyms do not lie.
Crnogorac3  3 | 658
14 Mar 2017   #157
Old European Culture

1

Bran Vran

Gaulish chieftains from fourth and third century BC have names whose clear etymology is preserved in Serbian. Breton, Welsh, Irish, Lithuanian and Slavic languages are the only ones which share "vran" as a word for raven and crow, but only Serbian, Croatian, Bosnian and Polish languages use Vran, Vron as a word for black. Slavic languages are the only ones which have preserved the old word Bran meaning to defend, protect.

We can see from the spelling of word for crow in Breton, Welsh, Irish and Serbian (Bran, Vran, Fran, Uran) that B, F, V, W (which later turned to U) are basically interchangeable sounds which depend on accent and dialect.

The name of Gaulish leader Brennus, Brennos could therefore be a personal name derived from a word "bran" meaning to defend: Brannas = bran + nas = defends + us = our defender.

Irish word for chief "branán, braine, braineach" as well as the Welsh word for chief "breenhín" are all derived from "bran" meaning to defend. The main role of a tribal chief was to defend its people. It is the same with Irish Surnames O'Branáin, O'Branagáin, O'Brannie.

Words "bran" meaning to defend and "vran" meaning crow, black are actually related and are both derived from the sound that crows make. The sound that crow makes is something that sounds like craaw, graaw, wraaw, raaw.

I believe that there is a very strong link Between Slavic and Celtic languages and cultures which has been so far overlooked.

oldeuropeanculture.blogspot.rs/2014/04/bran-vran.html
Atch  22 | 4204
14 Mar 2017   #158
@Crnogorac3, here's something that will interest you:

Irish Serbian Cultural and Linguistic parallels:
irishlanguageforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2214

There's a link within the above post to a very detailed analysis:

boards.ie/b/thread/2056938477?

But despite any very ancient links, our cultures have diverged somewhat since then, a fact nicely demonstrated by the unforunate conclusion to the Serbia-Ireland so-called 'friendly' rugby match a few years ago when a Serbian coach, ran on to the pitch and punched an Irish player in the face as he was about to go for a 'try'.

balls.ie/rugby/sickening-scenes-as-an-irish-rugby-league-winger-is-attacked-by-opposition-coach-on-pitch-306816
Ziemowit  14 | 3936
14 Mar 2017   #159
rish Serbian Cultural and Linguistic parallels:

There's a link within the above post to a very detailed analysis:

A fascinating stuff, indeed, those links that you have provided. I have only read a tiny bit, but the discussion seems to me amateurish. There is no critical analysis of the facts provided, so in general all this can be classified as speculation. I am not saying everything there is untrue in it, but language similarities must be studied much more critically that the author does it there. For example, 'tabor' meaning 'military camp' in Serbian is also well known in Polish as a moving military or gypsy camp. But it may have some other origin than that coming from the Vinca people.

The I2 gene is undoubtedly growing in importance in explaining the origins and migrations of the European people. Have you seen my thread in which I presented an article claiming the language of the ancient Philistines to have been proto-Slavic in nature?

https://polishforums.com/history/sensational-biblical-philistines-slavic-people-80287/
Atch  22 | 4204
14 Mar 2017   #160
Yes indeed Ziem, I saw your post in that thread.

As for the stuff I linked to it is indeed all purely speculative, just a nice read for somebody who's interested in the topic from an amateur perspective, the equivalent of a bit of a chinwag over a pint down the local :) The guy seems to be a Serbian married to an Irish woman (maybe it's Crnogorac himself!). There does seem to be a bit of a Serbian obsession with all things Irish at present and a very firm determination to find a link. Personally I think, it's a plan to take over the world on the premise that we all orginated in Serbia and we should therefore accept the rule of the Ancient Ones :D Crow is certainly very anxious to convince us that we're all Serbs.
Ziemowit  14 | 3936
14 Mar 2017   #161
And the following language similarity between Irish and the Slavic languages is astounding:
Irish:
creasa - flint fire
tinechreasach - sparkling
[Why is there CH in 'tinechreasach', but C in 'creasa'? Any difference in pronounciation?]

Serbian:
kresati - to smash two stones against each other in such a way that their sides slide over each other making sparks. to do the same with fire steel and a stone. to make sparks.

kres - fire steel, flint
kresivo - tinder

[In Polish: kresati - krzesać; kresivo - krzesiwo]

Maybe 'kresati' is just a proto-Indoeuropean word, so a kind of an equivalent should also exist in the Romanesque or the Germanic group of languages. The author doesn't discuss that, however]
Atch  22 | 4204
14 Mar 2017   #162
[Why is there CH in 'tinechreasach', but C in 'creasa'? Any difference in pronounciation?]

It's grammar Ziemowit, the creas takes an h because of the case and yes there is a difference. Creas has a hard c, so a k sound basically and the 'ch' is soft almost like the ch sound in Polish, a sort of cross between that and the German 'ch', not as guttral as the German though. Tine chreasach is two words by the way. The word 'tine' is the one used for the fire in the fireplace. The fireside is tinteán (pronounced roughly thinthawn). There's an old Irish saying 'Níl aon tinteán mar do thinteán féin' There's no fireside like your own fireside meaning of course there's no place like home. Notice how the second tinteán takes an h again because of the grammar. It changes the pronunciation from thin-thawn to hin-thawn :)
Ziemowit  14 | 3936
14 Mar 2017   #163
The guy seems to be a Serbian married to an Irish woman (maybe it's Crnogorac himself!)

This is pretty likely and if so, it's good to have him on board!

Words "bran" meaning to defend and "vran" meaning crow, black are actually related and are both derived from the sound that crows make. The sound that crow makes is something that sounds like craaw, graaw, wraaw, raaw.

Why 'crow' should be related to 'defend' (vran <--> bran) I don't understand. 'Vran' (bird) is black, but what's the relation of being black to 'defend' or 'being protected'?

Btw, the Polish corresponding words are: 'wrona' for a bird and 'bronić' for 'defending'.
Crow  154 | 9242
16 Mar 2017   #164
'Vran' (bird) is black, but what's the relation of being black to 'defend' or 'being protected'?

It could have connection with `black` and underworld, in fact with MOTHER EARTH. It was possible that in animistic times bird Vrana stayed closely related to the symbols of soil, fertility, land, underworld as world of ancestors. In that sense, `Vrana` was maybe even animistic/animal protector of land, personification of ancestors. So, there could be `vrana` and then `brana`/`odbrana`- defense. After that, one little step was needed to invent personal name `Branko` (one who defend/protector). Among Serbians, you even today have female name `Vranka`. See, as name, it survived test of time in form of female name- so again that female principle of MOTHER EARTH.

Logic of ancients differed from our today`s understandings. It is so very interesting.
Crnogorac3  3 | 658
16 Mar 2017   #165
The Magic of the Celtic Cross

1

This ancient Aryan symbol is widespread since ancient times throughout the Eurasian soil, and most of the Irish and the British Isles as well as the ancient Celtic homeland. Its ancient symbolism is tightly knit with the show of unity of the four elements - fire, earth, air and water (four baptismal arms), and the circle as a symbol of eternity. Four arms symbolize the balance of power, the four directions, or the wheel of the sun, which represents solar power in accordance with the solar perception the supreme deity. According to Gannon, center point and intersection level represent a foothold, and the fixed axis around which circulates transience.

0

Charms of the Celtic culture and Celtic soul symbolized by the Celtic Cross, have always been very receptive to the Slavic patriots, and even more than that. Two levels of the Celtic Cross, the circle of eternity, as if to signify the Slavic-Celtic fraternity embodied in the fateful crossroads of centuries of bitter warfare for freedom, alternating ups and downs, slavery and celebration of our two peoples, seemingly distant, our soul close. At first glance, it would seem to us Slavs little that binds us to the Celtic islands, especially if we consider the geographical distance, partial Anglicisation of the modern Welsh, Irish and Scots.

However, our Celtophilia is addressed primarily deep in antiquity. On the waves of magical Irish music, it is as if we hear the steps of the old Slavs, whose soothing views of the White Tower of Celtic Singidunum.

It is our national hero archetype closeness, because in Gibson's character (we trust also historical) William Wallace, we recognize our own national heroes. And the fact is that the Celts and Slavs traditionally price openness, courage, and little attachment and compassion, and love to drink to cheer up, exaggerate, and fight, and then repent.

And today, despite the geographical distance, we feel familiarity with the deepest layer of the Celtic tradition. Every honest Ulster loyalist and honest Irish nationalist, easily can, each for their own reasons, recognize the righteousness and superiority of centuries-old, as well as today's Serbian struggle.

3

Just such impressions made in his masterful novel "Serbian Children of the Empire" Dragoš Kalajić, painter, writer and ideologue, one of the modern teacher of Serbian ideas. By his own experience of Serbian-Irish closeness and respect, according to the speech by Patrick O'Brien, the main hero of the chapter "The Irishman" in the mentioned novel :

"The Serbs are dear to me, also because everyone here is against them. Otherwise, a little bit I envy you because of that. You know how to say no! It could also not be said that you are bored: according to the media, you know how to nastily beat and fight! I read recently in the New York Times in an interview with US Secretary of State James Baker: he said that your land should be reduced in the situation before World War I, as I suppose, something terribly tiny... If he says so - it means that your defeat must be provided. And in that too we are alike. As our Irish poet Yeats wrote: we the Irish are born to do things much more difficult than is a triumph!"
Crnogorac3  3 | 658
16 Mar 2017   #166
My small contribution, striking similarities between the Celtic Cross, Etruscan Horse and Viking Rune.

2

Etruscan Horse

1

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risbyle_Runestones

4

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Varangians
Crnogorac3  3 | 658
16 Mar 2017   #167
youtu.be/ogXyjs-hkpg

youtu.be/uwwHGT6c9N0
Crnogorac3  3 | 658
16 Mar 2017   #168
youtu.be/IoqiDOivUCo

VIKING Trailer (2016) Russian Viking Movie

About Viking:
Kievan Rus, late 10th century. After the death of his father, the young Viking prince Vladimir of Novgorod is forced into exile across the frozen sea.

If anyone is interested this Russian movie is really refreshing for those who do not like watching todays Hollywood garbage with "feminist warriors" and boring superheroes.
Atch  22 | 4204
16 Mar 2017   #169
Every honest Ulster loyalist and honest Irish nationalist, easily can, each for their own reasons, recognize the righteousness and superiority of centuries-old, as well as today's Serbian struggle.

You don't know much about Ulster loyalists! You need to read about them. I can tell you that they would despise Serbs at least as much, if not more than they despise the indigenous Irish. The one thing they have in common with Serbs and the Balkan nations is that for them, the Battle of the Boyne happened not 350 odd years ago, but yesterday and feelings run as deep as they did back then.

Serbian-Irish closeness

Did you look at the link I posted to what happend when we tried to play a 'friendly' with the Serbs about two years ago? The Irish are a much milder, less hot headed bunch than Slavs and we are a forgiving people. We don't hold grudges or seek vengeance in the way that Slavic nations tend to. We gained our independence from England through centuries of armed conflict but we've forged a strong friendship with them since.
NoToForeigners  6 | 948
17 Mar 2017   #170
@Atch
Nobody cares about the Irish. The topic is about "Being a Slav: a blessing or a curse?"
Since you're not lucky enough to be a Slav you should refrain from posting here.
Atch  22 | 4204
17 Mar 2017   #171
God you really are as daft as a brush Notty. Crnogorac3 wno is supposedly Serbian has been posting copious amounts of stuff about the Irish, so what's it to you, you miserable old Rooskie??

Here, this might cheer you up a bit, Russians learn how to do it Irish style in Moscow. Face it Notty, the world loves us:

youtube.com/watch?v=TatmDAawrHE

and as it's St Patrick's Day an added bonus :

youtube.com/watch?v=WNGwQpfoEG0

They loved us in France, they loved us in Poznan. Stand up for the boys in green :D
Crnogorac3  3 | 658
17 Mar 2017   #172
Did you look at the link I posted to what happend when we tried to play a 'friendly' with the Serbs about two years ago?

Such comments can be expected only from someone who never played competitive sports.

For example, there was recently this friendly match between Dinamo Zagreb (Croatia) vs. Zaglebie Lubin (Poland) which turned out to be anything but friendly.

The Irish are a much milder, less hot headed bunch than Slavs and we are a forgiving people.

youtu.be/_EPxUEBoKmE

Sure they are. The Irish are as "mild" as a cup of chamomile tea. LOL

We don't hold grudges or seek vengeance in the way that Slavic nations tend to.

Not at all. :)

youtu.be/p_st29mlQwU

This is perhaps the most brutal foul ever seen on a football pitch that ended the career of another player. It makes Eric Cantona's kung fu kick seem like Mother Theresa compared to Roy Keane.
Atch  22 | 4204
20 Mar 2017   #173
And such a reply could only be given by somebody who doesn't understand the first thing about sportsmanship as practised not only by the Irish but by any civilised nation.

Anybody who even watches, let alone plays sports knows that it's not normal for team officials to run on to the pitch and assault a player. It's especially not normal for the host country to attack their guests and for the host team to assault the visitors and kick them in the head as a gesture of their support for their nutter team official.

The fact that you can provide a link to a brawl between Poland and Croatia at a friendly only serves to prove my original point, that Slavs don't share the same mindset as the Irish. When the Serbian incident happened, the Irish team did not retaliate. They walked off the ptich because as I often try to explain to people, the Irish, contrary to the popular image of 'the fighting Irish' generally prefer to avoid confrontation whenever possible and will usually try to defuse a potentially violent situation.

Recently there was more trouble when Serbian fans subjected a black player on an opposing team to racist chants, something about monkey or banana eater or something. Again, you wouldn't see the Irish doing that. And then of course there was the Serbia-Albania flag incident, fault on both sides there. Albanians provoked it, Serbian security was rubbish and Serbian players should have walked off. It's sport, not war.

As for Roy Keane, the fact that he ended up being fined 150,000 pounds for bringing the sport into disrepute sends a clear message of how unacceptable his behaviour was. Everybody understands the concept of the legitmate tackle, an aggressive tackle and a foul. They are a normal part of football. But he went way beyond that and public opinion was strongly against him. However that's a very exceptional incident and in no way typical of Irish players.

ded the career of another player

Actually it was a long standing injury to his other knee that ended his career. That was why he had to drop his legal case against Keane.

The point I'm making C3 (sorry I have to shorten you, I'm struggling trying to remember how to spell the full thing!) is that while a Serb and an Irish man can enjoy a drink together and the sounds of Irish music, they are poles apart in their outlook on life. The Irish are essentially a light hearted people and Slavs have an intensity and a dark side that the Irish lack. You'd need to live in Ireland for a year or two to understand that difference. Slavs are very decided about everything, hold strong, even rigid views, very stubborn, that's my experience of them anyway. The Irish are the exact opposite. We don't even have a word for yes or no in the Irish language.

Have you heard of The Door of Reconcilation from the feud between the Butlers and the Fitzgeralds back in the fifteenth century?

stpatrickscathedral.ie/the-door-of-reconciliation

It typifies what I'm trying to explain, that the Irish instinct is to make peace and not war.
Bobko  27 | 2086
26 Jul 2023   #174
Do you have any stereotypes about them? Let it all out, please, with no restrain

Stereotypes about Slavs:

1) Uncomfortably direct
2) Prone to spontaneous bouts of melancholy
3) Largely lazy in comparison to all neighbors
4) Surprisingly hot-blooded for Northerners
5) Not very good with money
6) Interesting relationship between men and women.

I'm sorry if it all sounds too negative, but when I think "stereotypes" - I think negative.

Also, this Nathan guy looks to be a Ukrainian. Where did he go?
Lyzko  41 | 9563
26 Jul 2023   #175
@Ziemowit,

Not only have I always known the difference between Slovenia (capital Ljubliana) and Slovakia (capital Bratislava), furthermore, their languages are actually quite different in terms of common word stock. The word for "word" in Slovene is "beseda", no similar root whatsoever with "slov-"!
Bobko  27 | 2086
26 Jul 2023   #176
The word for "word" in Slovene is "beseda"

In Russian beseda means "casual discussion".
Alien  23 | 5607
26 Jul 2023   #177
@Bobko
And in Polish "biesiada" is a long party with a lot of food and alcohol.
Lyzko  41 | 9563
26 Jul 2023   #178
Interesting. Transference of meaning is fascinating among related languages, isn't it.
pawian  221 | 25006
26 Jul 2023   #179
Being a Slav: a blessing or a curse?

I look like a Slav, talk like a Slav, think like a Slav. Why should I curse myself? Of course I bless myself.
johnny reb  47 | 7560
28 Jul 2023   #180
Being a Slav: a blessing or a curse?

A blessing just like it was for an African to become a slave.
Life became much better for them.


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