Being a Slav: a blessing or a curse?

When you say that Celts were not Slavs you insulting me on religious level. Its about respect of ancestors and you very well knows that faith in well being of ancestors (which in turn watch over us) represent cornerstone of Serbian spiritual life. So, you deliberately mocking, provoking and insulting me. I see you are ready for tolerance of Islam but you can`t tolerate fellow Slavs (if you feel yourself Slavic) who worship once universal Slavic family custom SLAVA. So, I nicely asking you to stop with your insults. But not only you. Whole of western Europe would have to stop to mocking Slavic history. They respect Muslims, well, they shall learn to respect Slavs, too. They shall stop to stealing and distort our history.

On what basis are you building a theory that Slavs are a "culture group akin to Celts"?

I couldn't care less Crow. Pick some other religion that is not so obviously absurd. By the way I have thought that you are a Christian not some heathen.


Respect your ancestors nobody is stopping you. You can best respects and cherish them by using some common-sense and a modicum of a brain.
You seems to be failing for a delusion that Slaves like Celts are not a tribe but a cultural group with many tribes and many people of different origin (European).


On basis of following what theories are floating out there.

The Slavs, like the Teutons (Germanic tribes), Celts, Balts etc. are a people, a Caucasian sub-group much like the Na-Dene, Havasupai, Kwakiutl, and Tlingit are an Amerind sub-group of Native North Americans:-)

And what theories are floating out there?

Allow me to interject. Slavic as an Indo-European language family is normally divided into Eastern Slavic (Russian, Ukrainian), South Slavic (chiefly, Bulgarian, Croatian, Serbian, Bosnian etc.) and West Slavic (Polish, Polabian, Sorbian, Silesian, Czech, and Slovene). While categorists abound who'd doubtless take serious issue with the above (much as with most everything elseLOL), among the so-called "theories" floating around concerning peoples and languages is that of the much-debated Nostratic group, given to include as far-flung tongues as Basque, Kartvelian, and Hungarian:-)

The funniest of these is the notion that if a Lithuanian peasant listens to a Sanskrit prayer chanted ever so slowly, the former can understand the latter intelligibly!!

This is pure fiction, to put things politely.

Why don't you find out for yourself? Oh the curios one.
Seriously? if you disagree and want debate it just say it straight instead of pretending to be smarter than you are.
---

I've tried to, but didn't find any such theories.

you should. Same way as you care for Muslims or same way as you tolerate Irish or Anglo specifics, for example


Tolerance, please. For too long we Slavs tolerated Germanic and English historical schools. Now, you should, as a Slavic man, tolerate Slavic and more and more internationally respected apprach


heathen? heathens are to be burn Irone, isn`t it? Now, how could I admit that I am heathen. I`m not that crazy. Just joking of course.

Now, anyway, yes Serbians are Christians, among the first Christians in Europe. Just, fortunately or being cursed, as title of this thread nicely suggests, Serbians managed to preserve some crucial elements of their pre-Christian religion within Christianity, so in some Christianize form. In short, we preserved concept of SLAVA and OCILO (Serbian cross), where spiritual life rotate around cult of ancestors and Sun.


You are mistaking there. Celts were Scythians/Sarmatians/Thracians (ie Slavs).

From Serbians (Skordisci) on Balkan/Central Europe to the Picts (Scots) on British islands all were Celts and Sarmatians (ie Slavs). It just depend from author to author, from era to era, how things were described and recorded.

Now, we are happy to live in informative age, where we have internet and we are happy that we don`t need that somebody else draw conclusions to us. We just have to have a reason and at least minimum honesty to be able to comprehend historical puzzle. No need to involve politics in that.


Most theories support thesis of Slavic autohtonicity in Europe.

Well it's certainly true that the Irish do have some verified Slavic DNA. A couple of years ago they found the remains of some women who lived in Ireland around 4,000 years ago and they discovered when they tested them that they had Russian and Ukrainian ancestors. The funny thing is that there is a disease called haemochromatosis very common in Irish people, I think they call it the Celtic curse but apparently it came from our Slavic origins. My Polish husband had a blood test when he was in Ireland for something else entirely and they found potential signs of it in his blood. It was at manageable levels but they told him to be careful and not eat too much iron in his diet.

Slovene is not West Slavic, Slovakian is. A typical American thing: mistaking Slovenia for Slovakia.


No, you are kidding me. How could a woman living around the year 2000 BC have Russian or Ukrainian ancestry

Fair point Ziem! I should say from the Steppe region corresponding to modern day Russia and Ukraine.

Basically Crow is right when he says that the ancestry of many Europeans originates in the East in as much as it's been found that about half of the DNA of most Northern Europeans comes from the Steppe region.

Most genetic foundings, linguistic, cultural evidences recorded throughout history, archeology, suggest one conclusion. Bulk of European population was consolidated along the Danubian line, from Balkan to Baltic, after last Ice Age. So, from the traditional Slavic (ie Sarmatian) lands. And what is the most numerable European ethos and most spread culture? Slavs (ie Sarmatians, ie Thracians, ie Celts), of course. They are still alive, no matter ethnocide, genocide and bestial cultural violence committed on them.

And learn this. All, I mean all sources available, no matter even their political background agree in this thing (go google for yourself), when we speak of Europe:

1 - bulk of Sarmatian population was on western Balkans, within traditionally 100% Slavic and Serbian lands
2 - bulk of Thracian population was on western Balkans, within traditionally 100% Slavic and Serbian lands
3 - bulk of Celtic population was on western Balkans, within traditionally 100% Slavic and Serbian lands

And guess what, exactly there, in epicenter, Sarmatian name survived in its local form (Serbian name). Exactly there, Thracian name survived parallel with Sarmatian name (Serbians are known as Srbi and Ras(h)ani > Raci >> Thracian is foreign pronounceable form > T-raci; also S-a-r-mati to soften local native form Srb). Exactly there on Avala mountain Celtic Skordisci founded Serbian Capital Belgrade, were able to give last stand to Romans and to initiate formation of alliance with Czech Boii (one of oldest known inter-Slavic treaties about mutual protection).

I agree. All those groups and tribes you mentioned are all autochthones in Europe.


No, you're confused. They are all Slaves in a sense that all those groups are autochthons in Europe that were mixed and consolidating due to unknown as yet influences and circumstances.

I'm only saying that a main decisive factor in those groups was formation of different culture groups that influenced other tribes with their religion, customs and also on a linguistic level.

Slaves culture have been least to spread in Europe on such a scale.(hence erroneous theories about Slaves migrating to Europe in 4-5th century AD). That is before Christianity.

Picks, Sarmatians and others that are different timetable and circumstances.
In the timetable that pertain to Slaves had seen a rise of the Celtic culture, German culture (genetically a biggest mix of all different tribes and people) and Slave culture in that chronical order.


An interesting input Atch and one that confirms all I have been saying and funnily enough all that Crow had been saying minus his Serb-centrism.

Theory of autochthonism as to European people have been given new life by the latest discoveries in the DNA department.


Hmm ...or could that that at somepeoint in history people were migrating freely between different even distant regions of Europe.
That idea that people were migrating only in the one directions is kind of west-centric and some in a way as eccentric as Crow's theories about the universe filled with Serbs.

Yes, we absolutely agree on this. But, you stubbornly fails to understand one simple thing. Some of those ``groups and tribes`` are in direct cultural continuity (note that I even don`t speak about genetics) with only one and original, to say that way, mother culture, that is Sarmatian/Thracian/Celtic culture. That is Slavic culture. That you fail to understand. Slavic culture directly, in its normal evolution, culturally and linguistically, keep to native European culture. Only Slavs preserved that direct line. Those others, no matter how ``big`` nations today, all subjugated to foreign (non-European) influences. Yes, Slavs too were influenced, sure they were but, they managed to preserve themselves in continuity with ancestral ways. In continuity for innumerable millennia. God thank you for that

And you fail to understand because you refuse it or you just didn`t sow for yourself enough of evidences on the net. Or you lost it in yourself.

Well it could of course, I don't know enough about it to speculate but a quick bit of googling will sort that out :)) Off the top of my head I'd just say that if people can travel from east to west over a continent, there's no reason why they couldn't go the other way but it makes more sense that they would go from the colder and more barren regions of the east towards the warmer and more fertile ones of the west.

Let me quote:
Ukraine, with the largest territory in Europe and approximately 48 million residents, is known as the garner of Europe. The endless and fruitful black soil bears great agricultural potential. At the moment there are more than 35 million ha farmland, including 26 million arable lands in Ukraine

As we know the main produce of Ireland for a long time was a cattle. Hence half nomadic life-styles.

As to climate it changes, we don't really know what it was like thousand years ago.
In all I don't think that difference between climate in the west of France and east Poland was big enough to make it desirable.

Otherwise you would see everyone flocking to Spain, Italy and Greece.


That is what you believe in. I have no opinion on this. Maybe your understanding what 'culture' means differs from the gold standard.


Nonsense - they have been influenced by other factors that too were European. After all as long as Sarmatians were power on the east of Europe non Europeans travels have no chance to infiltrate the rest of the continent.

I'm not suggesting that the whole of the east is barren. Of course not. I was thinking more of people migrating westwards from places like Siberia. It is extraordinary when you think about it though, isn't it, that anybody would make their way as far west as Ireland, four thousand years ago! I mean, surely to goodness, with the amount of pasture available between the Pontic Steppes and Ireland, there was more than enough grazing land for everybody, given the tiny population of the world back then.

Mount Serbal and Lake Serbonis in Egypt



Mountain 2,070 meters high, and still has the name SERBAL, with which are connected early Christian communities, and traces of the monastery from 4th century AD... It is located in a part of the national park. (South Sinai)

Mount Serbal is located in Saint Catherine city in the south Sinai, sometimes known as Gebel Serbal in texts. At 2070 meters, it is the fifth highest mountain in Egypt. Serbal is part of St. Catherine National Park. Some believe that Serbal is the biblical Mount Sinai.

Photos of James McDonald, taken from the Guardian:



Jebel Serbal from right bank of Wady Aleyat Albumen print, 1869



Distant view of Jebel Serbal from the Palm Grove, Wady Albumen print, 1869

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Serbal

According to Jewish tradition, on Mount Serbal (Sinai) Moses received the 10 commandments.



Lake Serbonis, which is mentioned by Herodotus and Diodorus of Sicily. Herodotus informs us that this lake was located in the lower Egypt, where he constituted the natural border between Egypt and Syria, and that it was so old that even Zeus threw into it a mythical monster Typhon.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serbonian_Bog

de.getamap.net/karten/egypt/shamal_sina/_serbonis_lake/

geographic.org/geographic_names/name.php?uni=-470474&fid=1613&c=egypt

Zeus throwing lightning on Typhon, a red-figure Cilician vase

books.google.rs/books?id=0rG3tspSj6oC&pg=PA471&dq=Lake+Serbonis

tools.wmflabs.org/geohack//geohack.php?pagename=Serbonian_Bog&params=31.123497_N_33.118286_E_source:hewiki_region:EG_type:city

Area of Sarmatian influence is enormous. We can only speculate how deep in past this ethos (our ethos) was formed. By Jandacek, history of Proto Slavs (ie Sarmatians/Thracians) goes in time immemorial, even possible more then 40.000 years in past, judging by linguistic analyzes. That old is our Slavic culture.

Salisbury - historical name New Sarum and Sorbiodunum

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salisbury

Atch is correct in her observations, there was a Slavic influence on Britain.

Srbograd - Sorbiodunum in England



british-history.ac.uk/vch/wilts/vol6/pp51-53

A little bit of trivia, do you know how the Welsh say for someone if he is glup (dumb)?

walesonline.co.uk/lifestyle/fun-stuff/21-ways-swear-welsh-much-9557813]

Number 20. Tup si (identical in Serbian language).

:)

Not far from the famous observatory of the sun the Stonehenge... on old maps is found Sorbiodunum. One fortress from the time before the arrival of the Romans ... that bears the name of our people and our nation with the addition of (Celtic / Welsh) - dunum.

The county in which Sorbiodunum is situated, Wiltshire, is home to some of the oldest and most fascinating archaeological sites in the country. Wiltshire is famous for its ancient landscape, which includes Stonehenge, Avebury and Silbury Hill.



The map shows the south of Great Britain, landscape west of London (at the time of the Celts).



SORBIODUNUM or Serbian Fort
(old name was also Old Sarum)

britainexpress.com/Where_to_go_in_Britain/Destination_Library/old-sarum.htm

britainexpress.com/counties/wiltshire/ancient/Old-Sarum/index.htm

Still more in-depth and conclusive hard factual evidence needed to convince me!

King Arthur Pendragon was Sarmatian (son of a warlord) originally from Adriatic coast. He was one of many warriors that Sarmatians gave as a tribute to peace with Romans. Then, Romans sent 5.000 Sarmatian tributes led by this Pendragon (pen-dragon; means of dragons; means > of Sarmatians; of dragon people), on British islands.

So, what I want to tell you, when these Sarmats came to British islands they encountered their kin people, other Sarmats- Picts (Scots). Still, no matter all, by their, by general Sarmatian (ie Slavic) tragedy, destine of descendants of these Sarmatians was to subjugate themselves (and entire region) fully to romanziation and became embryo of Romano Brits who then gave Anglos to the Earth.

What is white in Europe, all have blood of Sarmatians (ie Slavs) in their veins.

Ahemm, crow, the operative word here is "conclusive", from one lizac to another:-)

What again remind me of term `all inclusive`

bdw, there was/is the similar observatory of the sun in back then Dacia (what is now Romania), close to ancient city of Sarmisegetusa. Same people that built Sorbiodunum built Sarmisegetusa. That people was/is Sarmatian (ie Slavic) people- native people of Europe.

You might be interested in Newgrange (Gaelic name Brú na Bóinne, meaning Bend of the Boyne, the nearby river). It's about a thousand years older than Stonehenge and a few hundred years older than the Pyramids. The immediate area around it has been inhabited for at least six thousand years. When it was originally built, it was aligned with the sun so that it would hit the floor of the innermost chamber, illuminating the interior exactly at sunrise on the Winter Solstice. Over time that has changed, so that it now occurs a few minutes later but the chamber remains illuminated for 17 minutes.

newgrange.com