Has Palestine ever existed?

In other words, you don't know what you are talking about.


Exactly!

Jews from Central and Eastern Europe only migrated there with Britain's permission in the 1900s because they didn't want to participate in diversity, equity and inclusion in the societies of the countries they were actual born in and once they got to Palestine they didn't want to participate in diversity, equity and inclusion with the native non-Jews who were already living there for millennia.


Great, just give them all their land back.

Many Israelis don't want to live in Israel anyway.

Bye, the Beloved Country - Why Almost 40 Percent of Israelis Are Thinking of Emigrating

haaretz.com/2012-12-15/ty-article/.premium/bye-the-beloved-country/0000017f-f0ba-dc28-a17f-fcbf3f920000

What I know is that you were wrong, because Poland doesn't recognize Palestine as an independent state.


It's not mine to give.


This poll is from 2012. How about a more recent one?:

timesofisrael.com/28-of-israelis-considering-leaving-the-country-amid-judicial-upheaval-poll/

"The Channel 13 poll found that 28% of respondents were weighing a move abroad, 64% were not, and 8% were unsure"

So, a majority wants to stay.

"Diplomatic relations between Poland and the PLO were established in July 1982 (after Israeli aggression in Lebanon). Representation of the PLO received the official status of a diplomatic mission, and its director - with the status of ambassador - the privilege of accreditation to the head of state. Renaming the PLO mission in Warsaw to "The Embassy of the Palestinian State" took place in 1989 during the visit of Mr. J. Arafat, due to the unilateral Palestinian decision. It was adopted by the Polish authorities (the Polish position resulted from the decision of the UN General Assembly from December 15, 1988 concerning the use of the name "Palestine" instead of "PLO"). As a result of the signing of the peace agreement between the PLO and Israel in 1995, the name "Embassy of Palestine" started to be used in order to stress the fact that the peace process will result in the creation of a Palestinian state. Poland supports the right of the Palestinian people to self-governance and its aspirations to achieving an independent Palestinian state as a result of the Middle East peace process."

gov.pl/web/palestine/bilateral-relations

All that needs to be established are permanent borders within their ancestral lands. Reasonably this would be what the UN proposed in 1948.

Even Poland didn't finally settle its border with German until 1990 (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German%E2%80%93Polish_Border_Treaty).

Canada and America still haven't resolved their territorial disputes (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_areas_disputed_by_Canada_and_the_United_States).


You complain that a poll taken within the last 10 years isn't credible but a specious claim of Jews living in Palestine thousands of years ago and absent from there for just as long is relevant?

You said so yourself:


Like I said, you don't know what you are talking about and clearly don't want to.

And until that happens Poland doesn't recognize Palestine as an independent state.


Don't make stuff up.
I didn't claim that it isn't credible. It's simply not up to date anymore. That's why I posted results of a poll from 2023.


I do know.

Poland still recognizes and interacts with Palestine as a state.

Palestine currently has as much freedom under Zionist occupation as Poland did under Nazi and Soviet occupations.


Which showed nearly 30% (a third of the country!) still didn't want to live there.


You don't know.

You only feel and your stance on this matter shows how you, as a "strong and independent woman", caved in easily to Zionist shaming tactics:

"Never Saw So Many Feminists Being Silent" Over Attacks on Israel - Says Israeli Minister May Golan

If that's the case then why such info in this article?:

wnet.fm/2020/02/17/czesc-krajow-ue-uzna-niepodleglosc-panstwa-palestyny-tego-obawia-sie-izraelska-administracja/

"The remaining countries, like Poland among others, maintain diplomatic relations with the Palestinian Authority, but don't recognize it as an independent state."


And that's a minority. Majority wants to stay.


I do.


You're talking nonsense :)))

So, the situation looks like this - communist Poland recognized the Palestinian Declaration of Independence issued by the Palestinian National Council in Algiers in 1988:

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine%E2%80%93Poland_relations

In the link which you provided it is stated that:

"Palestinian authorities adopted the Polish position from 1988 and consider it to be still in force. Accordingly, the Palestinian authority did not expect Poland to reconfirm its adoption."

So, is the PRL position from 1988 also the position of today's Poland?

Poland had an opportunity to reconfirm the PRL position from 1988, but it didn't do it:

euractiv.com/section/global-europe/news/eu-divided-in-un-vote-on-palestine-s-status/

"The 193-nation UN General Assembly has overwhelmingly approved, the de-facto recognition of the sovereign state of Palestine. Fourteen EU countries voted in favour, 12 abstained and only the Czech Republic joined the United States and Israel in opposing the move."

Poland was neither in favour nor against. Poland was one of those 12 EU countries that abstained.

Btw, this is me "caving easily to Zionist shaming tactics" lol:

https://polishforums.com/off-topic/years-israel-war-87833/4/#msg1932167

🙄

It is interesting that the Czech Republic supports Israel somewhat unconditionally to this day. The Czech Republic, for example, was the first country to sell combat aircraft to Israel, long before the USA.

@Alien, yeah, I was wondering about that too... Why the Czech Republic of all countries? 🤨

Maybe someone on PF knows why.

I don't know why, but I do know a little bit of military history in this regard.

When NATO invaded Afghanistan, the Czechs trained to fly jet fighters in Israel, to get accustomed to desert conditions.

Israel provided this opportunity, because the first Israeli pilots were trained in Czechoslovakia.

So there is at least some armament cooperation, that survived the Iron Curtain and everything since.

Really - I don't know why this thread continues to exist, after I posted my Biblical truths.

Who here wants to debate the Book of Genesis? I want to see this bold man.

Do you read the Bible? Good thing you don't read the Old Testament.

Where the hell do you think the Book of Genesis comes from?

BTW - I hate all religion. Maybe not equally, but the hate is there - in my heart.

Well, you see, you have some feelings.

Yes, not always cold capitalistic calculus.

Palestine is such an example.

Without a doubt. The word Palestine is more Slavic than the word Israel.

I know what I don't like about all this pro-Israel talk.

Its subcurrent, is that the Jews are just such better stewards of the land.

"They made the desert bloom!"

"They have more start ups than San Francisco."

"They just wanna live in peace, and discuss philosophy."

I don't like this. It's like Germans saying that Silesia is richer, because it was German, or Kaliningrad because it was Koenigsberg. Some German or Englishman could do so much more with the bounty of land in Russia. In other words, Russians are spoiled by land, and don't deserve what they have.

I hate this. If I want to live in an irradiated wasteland, using my outside toilet, and saluting a portrait of Putin every morning - that's my God given right. No Jew, or German, or Japanese is gonna make my dump bloom.

I'm like Shrek. I love my swamp, and I don't want Prince Charming coming and fixing everything up.

Even if it takes Palestinians 10,000 years to live like Jews in 2023, that's their right.

Palestine has existed for several thousand years!
The ancient Kingdom of Judaea on the other hand
is what the fighting is all about.

Finally me and you are in agreement.

When I started this thread I expected a big reaction, but the reaction I got was much greater than I expected!

This is my opinion.Palestinians are Arabs and not an individual ethnic group.
Jewish people are are religious group and not an individual ethnic group.

The Palestinian Arabs never had a state under their control in the Southern Levant or Canaan.

The Jews, who were descended from the Canaanites did....and in Iron Age times they led two Jewish states in the region, one called Judah and the other called Israel.

Both the Jews and Palestinian or Jordanian Arabs were subject to many invasions over centuries and neither had any control over the region.
But the Arabs and the Jews in the region managed to live peacefully, side by side, even under many occupations for many centuries.

So what happened to change all that?

Something called Hitler and Nazi Germany.

Have you heard of this?

It's an interesting bit of history, if one has the stomach.

You are either more ignorant than I cared to believe or you are a limp wristed leftie virtue signaller and a traitor to your own people!

Please tell us all in what years Palestine existed as a self governing sovereign nation............. we are waiting..........

Good diagnosis, Dr. Milo...Now... Is there a pill for it?

'There's No Such Thing as Palestinians': The Ignorant Bigotry of pro-Israel Propagandists

haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-03-21/ty-article-opinion/.premium/theres-no-such-thing-as-palestinians-the-ignorant-bigotry-of-pro-israel-propagandists/00000187-03b9-dde5-ab8f-23bd95600000

Ouch! And that's the view from inside Israel. LOL!

They Say, We Say: The Palestinians are not a real people

"The starting point is this: it makes no difference whether Israelis, or Jews, or anyone else recognize the Palestinians as a people.The Palestinians view themselves as a distinct people, with deep ties to the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. Israel and supporters of Israel can neither deny nor wish the Palestinians and their claims out of existence.

There is ample historical documentation showing that a separate local identity among Arabs living in Palestine started forming in the 16th and 17th century, and that a national Palestinian consciousness began crystallizing early in the 20th century, as anti-colonial movements took root around the world. This national consciousness transformed into a national movement and later into a national liberation movement, in large part as a result of the friction between the Palestinians and Zionism, the Jewish national self-determination movement."

peacenow.org/page.php?name=they-say-we-say-the-palestinians-are-not-a-real-people

Well, many good points made there.

Is Israel qualified to be a self-governing sovereign nation? Not really.

First, they only exist because they need to be propped-up by the United States Government and religious fanatics on both sides of the Atlantic.

Second, they aren't qualified if you simply use the standard of needing a precedence of self-rule which is being applied only to the Palestinians.

The Romans finally expelled the Jews from Palestine in the 1st Century. That's not a good sign when claiming to be sovereign especially when you also have a long history of other neighboring powers (such as Egypt, Greece, Persia) also taking your land and sending you into exile too.

Once the Romans gave the Jews the final boot they lived in many other parts of the world but mainly Europe.

Yet in over 2,000 years they never once had a self-governing sovereign nation of their own until 1948.

So why was the State of Israel founded at all 75 years ago when they would have to go back to even before Roman times to show any formal tribal organization and then use their own religious texts (not valid in law by the way) to make territorial claims in the modern era?

That's like someone putting together a family tree as a hobby and then claiming to find a royal ancestor and using it as all the credentials that are needed to be a governor or president today.

History aside, there are such people because they really exist. If I can identify as a woman, some people can identify as "Palestinians". I am OK with that.

To the simpletons like me, the problem is this: If I had to live next to the guys who can drop a bomb on my family and my house - that would be Israelis - the last thing I would want to do is to rape their daughters, wives, and mothers.

In fact, I would join the bad guys, the Israelis, in locating and killing every last moron on my side to prevent the bad guys, the Israelis, from getting seriously pis*ed off after said morons make unauthorized love to the bad guys' women and slash their throats. Just as I would protect drunk German officers on the way home...

I understand.

Unfortunately, rape is recognized as something that is and has been used as a weapon of war in conflicts all over the world. Even US soldiers have committed rape both of the enemy and within their own ranks. Unlike in other parts of the world though at least with the US when such acts are discovered it is treated as a crime and the perpetrators are given prison sentences and their careers ruined.


There is too much bad blood between Israel and Palestinians but I hear they have actually cooperated on police related matters in the past.

It's not surprising though that Israel expects the entire world to be enraged and rally to support only them yet you don't ever hear a single word out of them when other countries are going through anything similar.

As I said in another post, both Israelis and Palestinians are foreigners. The responsibility is on both of them to find a solution to find a way to live separately and next to each other in peace.

It is better that both of them are over there than over here.

Considering Jews's unhappy history of encounters with people who liked killing them in 194x, 1948, 1967, and 1973, what is the proper response to an event like the one on 10/7?

Specifically, how many Palestinians can Israel kill in revenge for killing 1300 Israelis without being accused of overkill?

As a reference, Japs killed 2400 Americans in PH. For this stunt, we killed 2,500,000 of them. Using that ratio of roughly 1000 to 1, Israelis should be allowed to kill 1.3 million Palestinians before we get seriously indignant.

10/7 was Israel's Pearl Harbor except a lot worse because of the barbarism perpetrated on their civilians and women.

@Milo, since when did I ever mention the word "sovereign" in my prior post?
I merely stated that Palestine as a concept has been around for several millenia,
although never as an independent nation or nation state!

In this way, Palestinians are different from Kurds, as Kurdistan is in fact
an established political entity, whereas Palestine remains a vague designation,
populated by a people who call themselves Palestinians, but whose country
is anybody's guess. Does it belong to Israel or not?

In the case of the Kurds, they claim they are their own tribe, while residing
in Turkey and at odds with the Turkish government.

A Palestinian representative recently answered this very question.

Here it is if you can bear to watch the absolutely insufferable shrilly misandrist feminist Zionist "interviewer" demanding to know while interrupting the whole time.

To save time and your nerves go to the 6:45 minute mark to start watching.