Has Palestine ever existed?

The media keep banging on about the state of Palestine.
But I have no knowledge of such a country ever existing.
Can anyone tell me a date or dates in history when a free Palestinian country existed, ruled by Palestinians?

Yes, even Poland recognizes Palestine.



According to Poland's Ministry of Foreign Affairs:

Diplomatic relations between Poland and Palestine were established in 1982.

gov.pl/web/palestine/bilateral-relations

How long has Israel existed?

According to the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs only 75 years as of April 2023.

Israel celebrates 75 years of independence

gov.il/en/departments/news/israel-celebrates-75-years-of-independence-23-apr-2023

The country Palestine is still a plan, since 1947, a plan made by the UN which destroyed the Arabs with a war themselves...

The region Palestine is much older.....and I doubt a sympathetic recognition of a plan of a future country cements or proves it's existence!

Genetic testing shows that Palestinians can trace their lineage to Bronze Era Levantine peoples.

When they take the skeleton of some person that lived in Canaan 3,500 years ago - there is a substantial continuity with modern Palestinians.

In other words - Palestinians did not come from outer space. They have always been there, and without a huge period of absence like the Jews.

There are papers that link Palestinians to the ancient Phoenicians. So you could take that as their first state.

Alternatively, you can take administrative units of the Roman Empire, like Syria Palestina.

Palestinians are ancient, it's just like with most other places that fell under the Islamic conquest, their culture and identity has become substantially Arabized.

Blood wise - they are closer to Jews than Moroccans.

Maybe we should start calling them "Jordanians"...it would clear alot things up!

After all the Jordanians are the same people just outside of the contested borders....

Just look at that map....lots of historical Palestine is actually todays Jordan!

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You might be surprised who doesn't agree with you.



Maybe you (like your fellow Zionists in Israel) would feel even better if we start calling them "Europeans" instead of "Jordanians".

Two Israeli lawmakers call on European countries to take in Gaza refugees

"Criticizing international community for not helping in tangible way to find solutions for 1.2 million Gazans displaced by war. We simply need a handful of the world's nations to share the responsibility of hosting Gazan residents. Even if countries took in as few as 10,000 people each, it would help alleviate the crisis. The international community has a moral imperative-and an opportunity-to demonstrate compassion, help the people of Gaza move toward a more prosperous future and work together to achieve greater peace and stability in the Middle East."

timesofisrael.com/two-israeli-lawmakers-call-on-european-countries-to-take-in-gaza-refugees/

Besides people can argue that Slovakia should never have existed due to Magyar rule and Magyarization.

People can also argue that Poland itself shouldn't have existed due to centuries of being partitioned and occupied by foreign powers.

Na ja....Poland was very much in existence before the partitions, wasn't it? Or otherwise there wouldn't had been a thing to dissect....

There never was a real country Palestine whose liberation has to be fighted for and freed! The country Palestine will be shiny and new no matter how it comes into being...

@Bratwurst Boy

Kurdistan never existed - but you still have Kurds.

Germany appeared yesterday, in historic terms, but everybody knew what a German was long before.

What would you think about the FFK? You know, the "Freedom for Königsberg" movement?

PS: I better take my helmet now, my English detoriates by the hour...:)

...but not capable of understanding that killing 1500 Jews in a couple of hours was a very bad idea.
They should have spread this unpleasant activity over time to take the edge out...

What does that matter?

There were centuries when it simply didn't exist nor was it autonomous which is the same argument you are trying give for the Palestinians not "existing".

Congress Poland

"Following the partitions of Poland at the end of the 18th century, Poland ceased to exist as an independent nation for 123 years. The Congress Kingdom of Poland was theoretically granted considerable political autonomy by the liberal constitution. However, its rulers, the Russian emperors, generally disregarded any restrictions on their power. It was, therefore, little more than a puppet state in a personal union with the Russian Empire. Thus, from the start, Polish autonomy remained little more than fiction."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congress_Poland


Nor was there any real country of Israel before 1948.

Zionism originated in Central and Eastern Europe not Palestine. Zionists had to ask the British to be allowed to immigrate to Palestine.

This is all in the 1917 Balfour Declaration which mentions Palestine by name but Israel isn't mentioned anywhere.

The Balfour Declaration also recognizes "existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine" and makes Jewish immigration conditional in that their entry into Palestine must not infringe on the civil and religious rights of the native population.



By the way, the Zionists in Palestine were first ruled under the British. The British then turned control over to the United Nations.

It was the United Nations that first proposed a two state solution.

Therefore, there never was a real country Israel whose liberation had to be fought for and freed.


So? No different than the State of Israel being self-recognized for a mere 75 years.

If you believe Jewish myths then why don't they resettle to the lands they claim they spent nearly a century in exile (i.e., ancient Babylon which is now modern day Iraq)?

Heck, they can go way back to the homeland of their prophet character Moses (i.e., Egypt) where as a people they claim to have lived for over 400 years.

Or they can go live in the land where this Moses person died (i.e., Jordan).

Wow - I like this Poloniusz guy! Actual knowledge of historical facts is rare here in the "Emotion Zone".

Fact - whatever you want to call those people - they have been living there forever.

Even the Bible says, that the Land of Canaan had to be conquered.

In Genesis 12:1:

Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee.

Then in Genesis 15:

In the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

19 The land of the Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,

20 And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,

21 And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Doesn't sound like unoccupied real estate. So then maybe we should return Palestine to the Hittites and move on.

No, it doesn't:

wnet.fm/2020/02/17/czesc-krajow-ue-uzna-niepodleglosc-panstwa-palestyny-tego-obawia-sie-izraelska-administracja/

"The remaining countries, like Poland among others, maintain diplomatic relations with the Palestinian Authority, but don't recognize it as an independent state."

As far as I understand Poland is a supporter of the two-state solution and of independence aspirations of Palestinians though.


There was. Long ago, but there was.


I'm not surprised - he has a problem with sticking to facts, just like you :))

Yeah, and the ancestors of modern Jews helped destroy it after it existed for barely more than a century. If modern Jews can claim Israel, then Palestinians can claim Phoenicia.

Learn your Bible, Jesus!

Out of the Kingdom of David and Solomon (which historians say never existed), there emerged two successor kingdoms. The Kingdom of Israel, and the Kingdom of Judah.

The Kingdom of Israel had its capital in Samaria, while the Kingdom of Judah was centered around Jerusalem.

Relations between the Kingdom of Judah and the Kingdom of Israel were so great, that the Kingdom of Judah appealed to the Assyrians for military aid against its neighbor. The Assyrians obliged, and came and promptly destroyed Israel and deported its population. This is the origin of the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel.

The people that continued to live in what was once the Kingdom of Israel, mostly became known as Samaritans - as in The Good Samaritan. It was "the Good Samaritan", because by that point most Jews viewed Samaritans as slightly worse than dogs.

Oh, the twists of history...

So... there was no Israel between the 8th century BC and 1948. The Israel of the 8th century BC was destroyed in part, by the ancestors of the people claiming the name in the present.

Haha!

It doesn't matter. Poloniusz claimed that there was no country of Israel before 1948, which isn't true.


Palestinians already claim the lands on which they're living, in case you haven't noticed.

Yeah, because they lived there for 3,000+ years. That's a pretty good claim!

They stayed there through the Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Macedonian, Roman, Byzantine, Umayyad, Abbasid, Crusader, Ottoman, and British occupations. Somehow they avoided being expelled during this entire period, though their dominant religion had to shift at least three times.

What finally did them in, was when a people called "the Germans" killed 6 million Jews some several thousand kilometers to the north.

It was a good run they had, but as you can see - in life some things are simply out of your control.

....but not as Palestinians....they had many names during their long history, as you yourself presented, and today one of their names is Jordanians....and I think that would be a way out for all parties, a chance for peace!

They haven't created a country of their own though. There was no particular nation of "Palestinians" in the past either.


I have no problem with their claim. They should have their own country if they're so hell-bent on it.

Yeah, it's just that the opportunities for this were rare to present themselves.

It's what I alluded to with this list:

They stayed there through the Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Macedonian, Roman, Byzantine, Umayyad, Abbasid, Crusader, Ottoman, and British occupations.

Too bad Paulina was not around back then to advise them. In retrospect, it's kind of a no brainer. Just petition the Persian Emperor to opt out of the Persian Empire.

@BratwurstBoy

I must go to sleep now, but the bottom line of all my posts is - stop genociding Jews in Europe, and then complaining about their new living conditions in the Middle East.

A German should maybe stay quiet.

I'm not advising anything. I'm just stating a fact. Btw, RuSSians like to stress that there was no Ukrainian state in the past and how Ukrainians aren't "a real nation", and how Ukrainian is a "fake" language, etc., so it's funny to see what different attitude you have towards Palestinians :)))


You could say the same thing about Ukrainians - being under the rule of either Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth/Poland or RuSSian empire/the Soviet Union :)

Are there Palestinians that claim to be the real Jews, and that David and Solomon were actually named Ahmed and Mohammad? Do Palestinians claim that Jews lived in the swamps of the Euphrates, when real Palestinians were busy building the Second Temple?

Ukrainians are all about stealing someone else's history, because they don't have any of their own.

Palestinians do not do that.

If you don't want me to partake in certain threads you just should had said so from the beginning! Maybe in the header...

Gute Nacht :)

Or maybe RuSSians are doing that? :)


This is simply not true.


How do you know what they claim? As far as I know many of them want Israel to cease to exist.

Wow, really?

No, you're lying.

A people displaced from their homes, want their homes back?

Asking a Palestinian if he wants Israel to exist, is like asking a chicken how it would vote regarding the execution of a fox.

@Miloslaw
It started as an attempt by a Roman Emperor to destroy Israel and it's legality. A failed attempt due to his lack of knowledge of how Israel's legality changed and basically became indestructible. It's people now roaming the entire earth basically comparingly to the population of China.

So both Palestine and "Modern state of Israel" have no legitimacy really to the same land they claim.

Problem is both people have the same problem and issue, that it's potentially more dangerous or worse in the hands of it's neighbours or elsewhere longterm. Which is why both fight tooth and nail over the same area.

@Poloniusz
Poland took a pragmatic approach, seeing it as necessary is my guess. Not much about ideology or legitimacy in Poland's policy in this

Yeah, really. Again - have you been living under a rock? o_O


Excuse me?? lol:

washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/what-do-palestinians-want

"Further, most Palestinians believe that a two-state solution is unlikely to emerge from the conflict. Instead, a majority of them say they prefer to reclaim all of historic Palestine, including the pre-1967 Israel."

Hmm... it's not really an ethnicity, because ethnically they are simply Arabs. It is not a citizenship, because there is no such country as Palestine. Is it a nationality? Hmm... difficult to say. What is it that distinguishes Palestinians from Jordanians for example? Is it the langugae? Religion? Culture? Genetics?

A very artificial word - 'Palestinians'. I prefer to speak of palestinian Arabs.


Indeed! The original (and the best) plan of partition of the British palestinian mandate lands aimed at dividing them into a Jewish state, what we now call Israel, and an Arab state - Transjordan (now called Jordan).





Unfortunately, it wasn't to be - the UN came up with another plan...



... and - now get this - Jews accepted this offer! So "Palestinians" could have their palestinian Arab state as early as in 1947, but they rejected it and with the aid of surrounding Arab states vowed to murder Jews and wipe Israel off the face of the Earth. However, they lost that and all the consecutive wars, so their genocidal plans were frustrated.

I think it is now hight time the international community went back to the original Israel-Jordan plan. Larger population relocations were executed in the past (e.g. Germans moving westwards from Polish Ziemie Odzyskane), so technically there shouldn't be a problem.

Of course, do it in a civilised manner - pay them reparations, ensure safe travel and all that. No other way to solve this imo.

It is all a moot point. The way forward is to give Arabs, Palestinians what have you some strip of land, and let them have their state. Simple.

The alternative is ethnic cleansing and that will come back to bite back in a bad way Israel tenfold in the future.

They are Arabized, but certainly not just plain Arabs.

When you find the rare pro-Israeli Saudi sheikh (yes, I was surprised too), you can hear some pretty incredibly racist things about Palestinians.

Some Arabs call them things like "Turkoman-Armenian" pigdogs. There is some truth to this, of course, hahahaha.

Probably no place in the world had such an amount of gene flow.

On the other hand, in support of your assertion - the size of the "Palestinian" population of Palestine was significantly smaller in the aftermath of the Islamic Conquest than in preceding Byzantine and Roman periods. The largely Christian population, consisting of numerous different ethnicities, was replaced with a much smaller, Arabized and Islamized one.

I think the way to think about Palestinian origins is as a sort of Macau or Singapore of sorts. An Arab main stratum, then some Greek, Armenian, Turkmen, Mongol, Kurds mixed in, and finally the very ancient lineages.