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The "Anglicization" of Europe


OP Lyzko 29 | 7,257
29 Aug 2019 #61
As Americans typically vulgarize their mother tongue everyday, even if it's their adopted "mother" tongue, I've have been wondering for some time now whether or not the molestation of a language is as bad as that of a person; in both instances violation has occurred!

No end intriguing how Europeans who are most up in arms over foreigners destroying their beloved mother language, often pay little regard to how they mutilate English:-) Let's hope the latter doesn't end up sooner rather than later on a list of endangered languages LOL
TheOther 5 | 3,758
29 Aug 2019 #62
little regard to how they mutilate English

Non-native speakers couldn't care less if their English sounds right or the grammar is correct as long as they get their message across. Remember: English is simply a tool to communicate with someone who doesn't speak your language. Nothing more to it.
OP Lyzko 29 | 7,257
29 Aug 2019 #63
As long as this sort of attitude keeps up, might as well simply all pack it in and emit a series of grunts, wheezes or barfing sounds to "get the message across".

Doesn't say much about the message then, does it!

Can't say as I blame your feelings any, to be honest. You're doubtless too young to have experienced English, even American English, in her heyday:-)
TheOther 5 | 3,758
29 Aug 2019 #64
might as well simply all pack it in

I would prepare for it, if I were you. A few more years of AI development, and you will be replaced by translation software. We are almost there.

You're doubtless too young

Not really, but thank you anyway... :)
OP Lyzko 29 | 7,257
29 Aug 2019 #65
No thanks necessary, as it wasn't entirely meant as a compliment!

I grew up during the Sputnik Era, mid-to-late '60's, when foreign language learning in this country was at a level higher than it's ever been. The differences between the way I was raised and now are so frightening, it's almost as though I were a stranger, both in my own country, more to the point, in my own language.

You can accept things as "normal" since you doubtless never knew just how great, how mind-blowingly wonderful, the good times were. I only attribute this to latent naivete. As the offspring of slightly older parents, not two teens or twenty-some-things who shacked up on some commune and started making babies, I was born with a whiff of the FRD-Era in my nostils, as part of my pores practically, and the aroma of prosperity and discover has not diminished.

Therefore, when I see the wanton indifference with which human language is being trampled upon twenty-four-seven, guess I go a bit bonkers every now and then.
Miloslaw 8 | 3,125
29 Aug 2019 #66
English is simply a tool to communicate with someone who doesn't speak your language

Spot on, Lyzko just doesn't get this......

human language is being trampled upon twenty-four-seven, guess I go a bit bonkers every now and then

Yes, I think you take it too seriously.
Language is just a form of communication and evolves constantly.
OP Lyzko 29 | 7,257
29 Aug 2019 #67
But if the precise nature of an idea, any idea, is in fact MIScommunicated because nobody's listening to the answer since their brains are sleeping at the switch, so to speak, we're not really communicating, we're approximating, aren't we.

Could be too that one of many reasons for the rampant rate of divorce throughout the world, particularly since the advent of digitalization, is that couples are too busy fighting over what something is "like" (that maddening filler word of the empty-headed) rather than what it "is"!

Not too long ago, a youngish woman at a party my wife and I attended, who it turns out was from Turkey, was chatting with us at our table amid a sumptuous buffet supper, and happened to ask me what I do for a living. I replied that I'm a college professor, at which point she chimed in, "Oh, you're like a teacher?" I answered her in what I thought was a witty rejoinder, "As a matter of fact, I really am a teacher, no foolin'!" Her English sounded as though she just arrived from California, and so not hearing any interference, I figured she understood American-style sarcastic humor.

Well, I was wrong. She got the tip of the iceberg as though she were an American, yet missed the subtlety of the joke by a country mile.
TheOther 5 | 3,758
29 Aug 2019 #68
since you doubtless never knew just how great, how mind-blowingly wonderful, the good times were.

Make America great again? You seem to have quite a distorted view of how "wonderful" the 1950's and 1960's really were. I attribute that to latent naivete. LOL!

it wasn't entirely meant as a compliment!

Oh, I know... :)
Miloslaw 8 | 3,125
29 Aug 2019 #69
She got the tip of the iceberg as though she were an American, yet missed the subtlety of the joke by a country mile

Sorry mate, but so did I.
Your English is excellent, but so American that I struggle to understand you at times.
I don't have that problem with Joker,Johnny,Rich or Dirk.
Why is that?
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
29 Aug 2019 #70
Because to us, anything above the simplest that does the job is buffoonery and another version of the look-at-me syndrome.
OP Lyzko 29 | 7,257
29 Aug 2019 #71
I never said that, Rich, and you know it.
Miloslaw 8 | 3,125
29 Aug 2019 #72
Because to us, anything above the simplest that does the job is buffoonery

Spot on Rich!

Bufroonery! I love it !!!!!
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
29 Aug 2019 #73
@Lyzko
I never said you said it. But we sure have different ways of saying the same things. My favorite colors - which are not colors at all - are black and blacker, and my posts show it. I hope.
OP Lyzko 29 | 7,257
29 Aug 2019 #74
I wasn't accusing anyone in particular of being a buffoon, really, truly!
In my idealistic zeal and determination, I can come across somewhat truculent on occasion, this is surely true.

Not on purpose though, I can assure you.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
29 Aug 2019 #75
truculent

Thanks to you I am discovering words I didn't know existed. In my defense, I never met anyone who would use it in my presence. Until now.
OP Lyzko 29 | 7,257
29 Aug 2019 #76
First time for everything, Rich!

Thing is, what was once everyday vocab when yours truly was coming up, has become high-level and less frequent nowadays:-)
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
30 Aug 2019 #77
I don't know as many words as you do to shine with, but I agree with you that observing some minimum standards - even in emails or posts - would go a long way in making the experience less painful. Like those damn commas which, when missing, actually change the meaning. Let's eat grandpa, as just one example.

Also, capitalizing. Not a big problem, just as a pebble in a shoe is not a big problem, either. I can still walk, but I can't enjoy the scenery as much as would without it..
OP Lyzko 29 | 7,257
30 Aug 2019 #78
Heck, when I was a boy, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I can still remember corrective re-casts of people's speech, right on the air live:-) This was for rank-and-file Americans, Rich, not NYC college types!!
RubasznyRumcajs 5 | 493
30 Aug 2019 #79
I haven't read that much of prescriptivist manure in a long time.

Up to the Great War English played a smaller part in scientific literature than French or German. WW1, and than Ww2 has changed everything. Nowadays circa 95% of scientific materials are released in English. No other language have ever achieved such a penetration.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
30 Aug 2019 #80
And none ever will. The last step in this evolution is dropping that sick British accent they still teach in Poland and probably in the rest of Europe.
OP Lyzko 29 | 7,257
30 Aug 2019 #81
The American accent IS "British" pronunciation, only not RP, but instead an amalgam of Southwest Dorsetshire with their flat a's and voiced frontal r's, combined probably with Scots-Irish along with certain influences from the Scandinavian immigrants from Sweden who populated much of the current Midwest:-)

@Rubaszny-Rumcajs,

Firstly, I think you meant prOscriptive, secondly, the degree of "penetration" into the world markets is only due to the presence internationally
of mostly US-companies, in addition to the attraction of rock music, namely Elvis and the Beatles and the rest is history, no mystery!

Regarding the admitted importance of English as passport to the globe, I ask for the zillionth time, would you keep your passport in as orderly, clean and presentable condition as possible, or rather all dog-eared and dirty?

Only you can answer that...yet somehow, I already know unfortunately what the answer will be.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
30 Aug 2019 #82
What you just wrote are explanations and justifications. The facts are facts. And those as well as the trends will not change in our lifetime.

The US English is winning because this is where the money is for the singers, actors, and the writers. And it sounds so much better and clearer than ANY other language on Earth.
Miloslaw 8 | 3,125
30 Aug 2019 #83
The US English is winning because this is where the money is for the singers, actors, and the writers

Not sure I agree with that.
Australian,New Zeeland,Irish,Scottish,Welsh and English accents all have their place.
I think many people are getting bored with the overkill of American English from TV and Movies.
In China, the fastest growing and largest population learning English, they are learning English English.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
30 Aug 2019 #84
Australian,New Zeeland,Irish,Scottish,Welsh and English accents all have their place.

The US pronunciation is effortless. To a non-English speaker who is just starting, all those you mentioned are not. That is why even the British groups sound more American than British when performing. I am speaking from experience, as my starting point was when I was 25 - which is late in the cycle. Kids, even if not born in English get it immediately. Adults are not that lucky.

Chinese are a bad reference. Their language is worse than water torture when you hear it. Written - forget it.
But when they come here to steal and spy, they probably switch to the victim's - that would be the US - pronunciation to make themselves more like us.
Miloslaw 8 | 3,125
30 Aug 2019 #85
The US pronunciation is effortless

No it's not.
I and many others struggle to speak in that English "Country bumpkin" accent that came from The west country, East Anglia and maybe from Ireland too.It is essentially the accent of peasants.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
30 Aug 2019 #86
I am not referring to the Southern drawl. I am referring to the standard American English spoken by the network news anchors - especially in the Midwest.

I just visited prian.ru. You can select Russian and just one other language. Guess what language it is. No, it's not the one spoken by 10 trillion people or the world's greatest lovers.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
31 Aug 2019 #87
From rt.com:

rt.com/russia/467212-russian-flag-moscow-record/

Record-breaking flag steals the show as Russians mark 350 years of national colors
As many as 1,000 people staged a spectacular stunt in Moscow, unfurling a giant Russian tricolor as part of nationwide celebrations honoring three and a half centuries of its history.


So funny! RT.com went all the way to the US for the correct spelling and ignored Queen's royal English. I guess, the Brits have too many useless u's in stock.

As a side comment, the same kind of event in the US would be hate speech. That's how far the Western insanity has become normal.
Miloslaw 8 | 3,125
31 Aug 2019 #88
So funny! RT.com went all the way to the US for the correct spelling

That is exactly why RT should never be trusted.
They can't even spell English properly.....
Remember, RT TV is what used to be Radio Moscow..... that well trusted broadcaster......LOL!
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,309
1 Sep 2019 #89
RT TV

I will trust RT TV before I will trust the following: the US government, the CIA, the FBI, CNN, MSNBC, BBC, or Vatican.

Back to the subject of English shaming every other language... The correct spelling is color, honor, and program. There is absolutely no reason to add u or me.

Just curious, once you typed program, why on earth would you add me to make it into this crazy programme? What value does that me add to the word that was already clear like a bell? Is the pronunciation any different? If you don't say it, why have it?
Joker 2 | 1,717
1 Sep 2019 #90
Radio Moscow..... that well trusted broadcaster......LOL!

I would trust them before CNN or MSNBC, which is total conspiracy soap opera TV that keeps getting worse.


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