American Special Military Operation in Venezuela

And that is exactly what Poland needs - nuclear weapons. In fact one lesson from Venezuela is that medium sized countries will all want nukes

Well that's refreshing. Good on you for owning it, and not engaging in fruitless mental gymnastics.


Precisely.

If you told somebody in 1980 that in ten years the USSR would fall apart, they would consider you a fantasist - but it happened - no nukes or large armies were necessary (just inept leadership).

Similarly, if you told a person in the United States in the 1980s, that in 2025 American politicians would become fearful of even appearing at the same social event as a member of the opposite party - they would think it's a fanciful joke. But here we are - in a situation where it is normal for a Democrat politician to refuse to shake hands with a Republican, and each side daily accuses the other of being "traitors", "Nazis", or best of all "foreigners".

KGB gurus driving influence operations could never have dreamed of creating the political polarization present in America today.

-//-

Big countries you have to bring down from the inside. Like the Roman Empire or Ming Dynasty China.

Comic relief time:

John Mearsheimer, ladies and gentlemen, he of the "NATO forced/tricked russia into invading Ukraine" school of thought. Here he is talking about how the US would be helpless against the mighty Maduro....

x.com/MaxAbrahms/status/2007602235015057452

Some people never tire of being wrong....

The war didn't start because Ukraine was about to join NATO (which was and still is some distant hypothetical foreign policy football that gets kicked back and forth for decades, like Turkey joining the E.U.) but because Ukraine had ousted pro-Russian president and was trying to begin steps to join the E.U. The issue was, Russia had enough money to make Ukrainian politicians and oligarchs rich, but not enough money to bring the same kind of prosperity to Ukraine that the Czechs and the Poles have gained since joining the E.U. If that happened, any diplomatic or geopolitical means of reuniting Ukraine with Russia in any greater economic, military, or political union would have been killed stone dead more or less indefinitely. Putin perceived this loss of political/economic/military partnership as a major longterm blow to Russia's post-Cold War recovery propects, so here we are.

Without Ukraine Russia won't be a global superpower. Without Western Europe, the USA won't be a global superpower. The West can reinforce Ukraine (but not indefinitely), and Russia can threaten the unprepared Western Europe.

This opens the door to a possible trade, to a possible peace deal in which both the USA and Russia will get what they want. What could possibly be the currency in this trade? Who could possibly be sold down the river again?

Hmm... I wonder.

@Mr Grunwald
We all understand that drugs and other enterprise are not just profit centers, they are meant to destroy the fabric of families and society. And thats one reason they have been targeted by Trump and his group.

Seriously though. If the US cleans up its own house, and then cleans others, who is going to stand in the way? Two hours and twenty minutes and the US used precision strikes to depose a leader and take over a hostile country. But of course, all the leftists here still want to say the US military sucks, and the weapons are no better than Europes. Yet they cant answer why Europe wants the US weapons and training? Want to win a war decisively? Send the US with no stupid restrictions and it will be over very quickly.

agreed, because it wasn't.... anyone who says it was a real factor is a clinical moron who should be put in an asylum for their own protection....


Whole bunch of reasons, not involving anything the west could or would do.... most of the reasons were about the ideology of russian empire (which doesn't work without Ukraine, the straw that stirs that particular milkshake) but also fear of Ukraine becoming a democracy in which elections were followed by changes of goverment - that whole idea is/was kryptonite to every bit of russian ideology (based as it is on top-down compulsion).

Sure.

However, if we agree that pure military might - without taking into account international law - can resolve various conflicts of interests, then on what basis do we deny Russia the same right to deploy her armed forces whenever and wherever she considers it necessary?

It's as Bobko pointed out: if "evil ruSSians attacked sovereign Ukraine", then "evil ameriKKKanSS attacked sovereign Venezuela", right?

In other words, do we still claim some sort of moral superiority over evil Putinists or do we agree that morality has nothing to do with it--it's just a matter of pure force.

One entity controlling the world is inevitable, sooner or later. Whole human existence is a story of us uniting into bigger and bigger groups, why would this process suddenly stop now? It's going to happen, one way or another, you can only choose which superpower you support in the struggle to become that global ruling entity.

No.... American action wasn't preceded by years of bvllsh7t propaganda about how Venezuela is actually part of the US, and Americans and Venezuelans are 'one people'.

American action was not preceded by insistence that Venezuelans be forced to speak English

American action wasn't a broad-scaled, multi-pronged invasion, it was a surgical strike with one immediate goal, remove Maduro, get someone in office who will play ball with the US (not pretty, realpolitik in extreme form).

I don't know if Trump was surrounded by Venezuelan yes-men who insisted Venezuelans would be happy to be rid of Maduro.... but most do seem to be happy to be rid of him.

I can see you read the Bible. Very good!

However, if you read it carefully then you must surely realise that this "one entity" will be the Beast, the Wh*re of Babylon and the seat of power for the Antichrist. If there is one thing that you can be sure, Korvi, it's that you don't want to be a part of this unified entity when Our Lord Jesus Christ comes back.

@mafketis

There are many similarities and there are, as you pointed out, some differences. The key is interpretation and how it will be applied by other superpowers in the world.

That's it in a nutshell, all the bollox about freedom and democracy and rules based order never apply to the US in particular and the rest of NATO in general. The US has spent close to two centuries bullying every one in the Americas, they see it as their kingdom. They keep doing the same in other parts of the world always removing "evil dictators". Personally I can't wait until they remove the evil gulf "head and hand choppers". The evil dictators in the gulf have spread a perverted interpretation of Islam and are protected by the US. The US has probably removed more democratically elected heads of state than not. This removing dictator metric is a fantasy ie it's a lie the so called free press sell.

The US really is a force of evil in the world and their people love it.

Really???

Ukraine....invaded, destroyed land and infrastructure, killed civilians, women and children by Russia for 3 years now!

Venezuela....one US Delta Unit = removed leader from his fortress in Caracas in 3 hours!

!!!!

I'd extend that, since they first invaded in 2015.


I'd guess that they were in contact with dissidents and business grifters.

Lovely news about Ukraine destroying the pontoon bridge the orcs tried to make to get to Pokrovsk. Up in flames with all the orcs on it. Barbecue time!

That's just a question of armed forces' efficiency.

Nah....Russia is there for territory gains....for getting land back/stealing land (depending on your viewpoint)....that is a whole different level of war goal!

Interesting analysis:


bild.de/politik/ausland-und-internationales/venezuela-nach-us-schlag-gegen-maduro-hat-russland-riesige-oel-sorgen-695a0ba1f6fc544dba9bbcf1

I wonder if Trump and his advisors had really even more in mind than only removing a troublesome druglord and dictator....a real big show off to Moscow!


....is it! Well.....

1) Did Venezuela have the combined intelligence apparatus of America and Europe reporting on every Russian movement by the minute - as Ukraine did (see NYTimes and other reports)? That is, were the Venezuelans surprised/shocked to see helicopters over their capital city, or were they prepared and firing at them from MANPADS and anti-air batteries?

2) Did Venezuela receive state-of-the-art weapons that even America did not possess? Because Ukraine had Javelins, for example, which were a generation ahead of anything the Russian army fielded.

3) Did Venezuela receive billions of dollars in aid from the EU, and US, and international organizations like the IMF and World Bank - or did it spend much of the last 15 years living under sanctions?

4) Did Venezuela's neighbors make their communications arteries and transport infrastructure available to them, or did they instead close their borders with Venezuela following American threats?

5) Did Venezuela receive non-stop, round the clock favorable coverage from every Western media outlet, or was it instead subjected to a concerted effort of demonization by the same?

6) Did Venezuela possess a massive industrial economy (larger than that of most European countries, if we look at heavy industries) and a sprawling defense sector, or was it a third world country living primarily off oil exports?

-//-

Look I get it - Russia is weaker than America.

I can repeat this - Russia is much weaker than America, by nearly every possible measure.

But please stop pretending that the target of America's bullying is just the same as the target of Russia's bullying.

This is disrespectful towards your Ukrainian allies. Knowing what racists they are - they would genuinely be upset at a comparison with Venezuela. This is a country that as recently as 1991 thought it would soon have an economy larger than France (look it up), but instead - and unfortunately - ended up being 3 times smaller than Poland.

@Bobko

I tried to write out the many differences between the Ukraine war and the Maduro operation...

But how would you estimate my post with the analysis of longer term consequences for Russia and its war effort in Ukraine?

It's not about liking or disliking; it's a fact that Ukraine is not Poland's friendly neighbor. Its political stance is far from being friendly. In many aspects, it resembles a third-world country, struggling with corruption and a criminal oligarchy. Therefore, all support needs to be targeted and carefully accounted for; giving them something for free is a bad idea. Additionally, prioritizing Ukrainians in Poland over Polish citizens has already backfired.
Our policy is conducted by incompetent losers and poll-surfer addicts.
---

Just like Poland in the 90s.

Look, that is the real world, and that is how everything works. All those liberal and high-strung lofty ideas presented to the public are merely ornaments.

Anyone who believes that there is some kind of transcendental order of justice and harmony among humankind is misguided. Our moral superiority lies in the fact that our civilization, despite all the heresies and perversions associated with liberalism, progressivism, and the like, is totally superior and better than anything the world has to offer.

Sometimes it falls into the deep abyss of aberrations, but that is a testament to the fact that it is vibrant, rich, and full of potential. Civilization that allows people to reach their full potential or to slump in the gutters, freedom that reflects individual choices.

If you are looking for people willing to sing Kumbaya with you, look no further than suckersforhire.com.lol

I think it's plausible, but not likely.

People are saying - "Oh, now an attack on Iran will be much simpler, because America will not have to worry so much about global oil supply disruptions."

or:

"Trump will flood the world markets with Venezuelan oil - and this will crash Russia's economy".

These are facile arguments. One has to look closer at the details to understand what is possible and what is not.

-//-

The facts are:

1) The Venezuelan oil industry has been starved of capital investment for the best part of twenty years. It will take a long time for it to even reach the levels of production they had in the early 2000s. We are talking years - not months.

2) Venezuelan oil is notoriously difficult to extract and to process. This is why despite having the world's largest oil reserves, it was never in the "top" of countries by oil production. It would take truly gigantic investment and a great deal of time to get Venezuelan production to even Iranian or Iraqi levels. We are talking about more than a decade.

3) So, if Iranian oil production is knocked out in the near future (during Trump's current term, say) - for example - then Venezuela will certainly not be able to replace it in any possible way.

4) Russia's economy and its structure has changed significantly since the early 2000s. The argument Bild is making regarding the critical role of oil exports to the state budget is... only partially true.

5) Even with low oil prices, Russia runs a budget deficit which would make most European countries envious (around 2%). If oil prices fall through the floor, Russia has PLENTY of room to borrow. Russia should be able to tap tens, if not hundreds of billions of dollars from the debt markets (internal, and Chinese).

6) In the end - I will tell you a Russian joke:

Father: Son, I lost my job and money will be tight for a while.

Son: Dad, does this mean you will drink less?

Father: No son, it means you will eat less.

The moral of this joke is that Russia will always have enough money for war, because it will simply cut other things... like healthcare, education, infrastructure investment, etc.

Still, they had nukes, a better economy than Poland, more people, more ores, and after 36 years, that country was run to ground, staying above third-world country status by a skin of their teeth.
Proper translation from Polish would be thirty-six summers. Any old perverts have an issue with it?

THANK YOU!

Yeah.....that makes sense!

People probably expect to many birds killed at once with that special stone-operation...

Thanks for the interesting discussions, I have to bow out here for the day!*waves*

I'd summarize this:

1. China has showed the US how to soft-colonize Africa.

2. The US has realized it is late to the game in Africa, so they decided to mimic the soft-colonization in South America.

That's the only way to keep the US relevant in the world theater and keep the US dollar afloat

What really happened before Venezuela invasion:

Yeah, the last time we could at least pretend to have it was medieval Christianitas.


Aye, there's the rub - can the West still be considered a single civilisation? Isn't it slowly but surely separating into three distinct civilisations: Anglo-Judeo-Saxon, West European and Intermarium?

You are a dreamer, Barney. I guess China or India, or even Russia, would be a force for good, or would do the job better. No offence, I will take my leave to laugh it out properly.

Because that would be an obvious move, make Russian oil cheaper again. Great idea.

Of all three Russia would probably be the best option (if we really had to choose). India is too culturally alien and their caste system is an abomination, and China is more evil than most people suspect. God guard us from the world in which China would be the main superpower!