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Unfulfilled promises by PiS


gumishu 11 | 5,603
9 Jul 2020 #31
During PiS, they keep their positions and money and business runs as usual.

a source on that please?
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
9 Jul 2020 #32
Funny you are asking for it as if you didn`t know. hahaha

Here`s a long but very informative article about Szumowski`s suspicious businesses and financial machinations.

notesfrompoland.com/2020/05/22/polands-health-minister-denies-accusations-of-helping-his-brother-receive-public-grants/

PS. In the old times of PO it was a norm that such politicians immediately lost their positions. In PiS times, it is a norm they are defended by their party mates at all cost.
gumishu 11 | 5,603
9 Jul 2020 #33
Funny you are asking for it as if you didn`t know.

sorry I misread you previous post - I thought you wrote about VAT fraud and the the culprits lost their possessions - I'm not in the mood to read the article you linked to be honest
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
9 Jul 2020 #34
hahaha Yes, I know how you feel, it is so shocking that your PiS pets proved the same or even worse than disgusting PO.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
9 Jul 2020 #35
Besides, gumi, remember, that`s just one article about one man. There are more articles about PiS corruption and nepotism cases. E..g, Have you heard how PiS offers jobs and various bonuses from the state budget to their family and friends?

Don`t tell me your usual mantra that PO did the same. Yes. But I will reply for the hundredth time that PiS came to power promising to put an end to such practices. Not only didn`t they end them but they even increased the intensity of sucking the budget like leeches. PIS are the greatest leeches in modern history of Poland.

How do you feel about it?
mafketis 24 | 9,371
9 Jul 2020 #36
He wants to suck some blood too....
gumishu 11 | 5,603
9 Jul 2020 #37
. Not only didn`t they end them but they even increased the intensity of sucking the budget like leeches.

how do you know they increased if during the time of PSL-PO they went unreported by the media you followed (if you followed any)

He wants to suck some blood too...

it was very low from you, ya know
mafketis 24 | 9,371
9 Jul 2020 #38
Isn't it true though? Why else would anyone vote for a bunch of leeches?
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
9 Jul 2020 #39
how do you know they increased if during the time of PSL-PO they went unreported by the media you followed (if you followed any)

No, gumi, everything is in records.

Remember extra bonuses that PiS gave themselves in 2017? Because we deserved them!!! hahaha Those scumbags took hundreds of thousands of zlotys, claiming that PO had granted themselves more. Later it proved it was false and PO had gotten much less than PiS. Fekking leeches.

Check this article:
In 2017 alone, PiS received bonuses worth 12 times more than PO during their whole rule.

wiadomosci.onet.pl/kraj/nik-nagrody-rzadu-pis-dwanascie-razy-wyzsze-niz-za-czasow-po-psl/lyw5btv

Gumi, you didn`t answer my question - how do you feel about PiS leeching the state despite their promises?
gumishu 11 | 5,603
9 Jul 2020 #40
Why else would anyone vote for a bunch of leeches?

I don't consider PiS leeches at all, maybe there are some irregularities among them but in my opinion it's not comparable with the situation during PO-PSL rule

- the leeches as you call them put an end to the VAT fraud and smuggling of fuels into Poland for the most part - the two easily covered the original 500+ programme

, PiS received bonuses worth 12 times more than PO

even if some people think of it as a scandal, there was nothing unlawful about it - and in my opinion those people deserved it - also I think PO-PSL just received much more in unlawful manner (think corruption)
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
9 Jul 2020 #41
and in my opinion those people deserved it

I see. hahaha

- the leeches as you call them put an end to the VAT fraud

No, they didn`t. There is still a huge gap. According to your thinking, PiS is to blame for that . They are fraudsters!!!

also I think PO-PSL just received much more in unlawful manner

Prove it. You can`t. Even PiS wasn`t able to prove it.

PS. That kind of defence of PiS is so pathetic. You know that a decent person should rightfully despise such views. Coz they mean: PiS is always wonderful no matter how corrupt they are while PO is always bad even if we have no proofs. .

Funny, isn`t it?
gumishu 11 | 5,603
9 Jul 2020 #42
Gumi, you didn`t answer my question

I have a question for you - Trzaskowski has promised that nothing that PiS gave to the people will be taken from them - he even promised more:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/wybory-2020-program-rafala-trzaskowskiego-kandydat-koalicji-obywatelskiej-nie-przedstawia-kosztow-kluczowych-obietnic-6530276727649921a

what do you think about it - why do you support someone who is - in your opinion - ruining the finances of the country even more than PiS - or maybe you just treat it as a ruse to gain power and then completely turn around and you acknowledge and accept it and approve of it

There is still a huge gap

the gap you mention is not caused by VAT fraud (virtually an extortion from the state) but from lower level of crime in black/gray market like the one caused by car mechanics or builders not issueing invoices - I bet they are working to tighten the grip on evading taxation that way - but there are priorities

Funny, isn`t it?

no you're not funny at all - you live in an information bubble
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
9 Jul 2020 #43
why do you support someone who is - in your opinion - ruining the finances of the country even more than PiS

Of course, will keep his promises if the Sejm allows for that. That should be easy - cutting PiS off the state manger and putting an end to their embezzlement and corruption will certainly help to save a lot of money. Do you know how much they wasted on the elections which didn`t take place in May. Over 70 million.

the gap you mention is not caused by VAT fraud (virtually an extortion from the state)

Of course not. It is obvious you happily ignore articles which describe such issues. You only stick to rightard media, right? hahaha

Look, I am getting tired of finding those articles for you. Can you get down to work a little and start doing it on your own? They aren`t published only on liberal sites, so that won`t hurt you. hahaha

Tightening VAT scam gap is a myth! Scams still rampant

money.pl/podatki/uszczelnienie-vat-tylko-na-papierze-mafie-nadal-bezkarne-6483075973208193a.html

no you're not funny at all - you live in an information bubble

Funny you are saying it coz in the light of what I have just said, it is YOUR little problem.
HA!
buhahaha
gumishu 11 | 5,603
9 Jul 2020 #44
Over 70 million.

70 million pales in comparison with 40 billion saved from VAT extortion

money.pl/podatki/uszczelnienie-vat-tylko-na-papierze-mafie-nadal-bezkarne-6483075973208193a.html

the article you posted just juggles numbers not explaining anything - jak dla mnie to on może być całkowicie wyssany z palca

and you don't even know what VAT extortion means
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
9 Jul 2020 #45
the article you posted just juggles numbers not explaining anything

Now you are inconsistent - in the morning you refused to read a long and informative article about corruption in PiS` ranks. Now I offer you a short one with pure data but you still complain.

I'm not in the mood to read the article you linked to be honest

Can you decide at last what you want???? hahaha
gumishu 11 | 5,603
9 Jul 2020 #46
man you simpy cannot count - the budget income in 2015 was 289 billion PLN - and in 2018 380 billion PLN - an increase of 100 billion in a span of three years - how do you explain that? - the fact is easy to check even for you (so I won't attach a link)

the latest data for 2019 say the budget income was 400 billion) - just think for yourself sometimes and shed the bias then we could probably talk sense

ok - I was a little harsh on you - you probably can count - and you probably can read - just choose to read what strengthens you bias

cutting PiS off the state manger and putting

the promises made by Trzaskowskis can cost 50 billion according to Konfederacja - do you think it can be covered somehow by mythical corruption among PiS - just think for a moment 50 billion - this is one eightth of the current budget income - you really think this is real (anything in it is real)? - and you call PiS irresoponsible and find excuses for your own accepting of 500+

you just choose to believe the wrong people pawian - people who in my experience lied, manipulated - and made false promises just to get elected - I never trusted them since 2005 the year I got interested in Polish politics again - and I really deplore the fact that you trust these people

doesn't it make you think that it was during PO rule in Warsaw that people were evicted from their appartments because of fraud aquisition of buildings - doesn't it disturb you that a woman was eventually murdered because of this - I just don't believe you don't connect the dots and say - man these people are evil and rotten

it looks like you lost arguments - I will give you a hint: they must have helped the budget by printing money in 2018 :) - seems plausible, no?

this is how people react to a cognitive dissonance that shatters what they believe to be true (or rather their ego)

so pawian - where did PiS get all those 100 billion PLN from ? from the economic growth (all hail the mighty economic geniuses from PiS) ? from inflation? from printing money?

I will pester you forever whith this thread :) :P

do you already regret starting this thread??? :):):)
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
9 Jul 2020 #47
hahaha Gumi, relax, I see you went into a hyperactive mood, I will get back to you, I promise. Now I am busy in other threads. Calm down.
gumishu 11 | 5,603
9 Jul 2020 #48
Why else would anyone vote for a bunch of leeches?

because they aren't particularly leechy - the alleged leeches - and how about you mafketis - can you count?
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
9 Jul 2020 #49
an increase of 100 billion in a span of three years - how do you explain that?

PO would have achieved the same result if they had remained in power. So, PiS` merit here is zero, actually. PO didn`t have enough time to introduce changes they had been planning. Simple.

the latest data for 2019 say the budget income was 400 billion)

It is still nothing that we should pay credit to PiS. PiS was lucky to enjoy prosperity time in Europe, that`s all. The handling of the current situation by PiS shows they are like kids lost in the thick fog.

the promises made by Trzaskowskis can cost 50 billion according to Konfederacja

hahahaha you are getting carried away, look at the title of the thread again and think what you are trying to debate.

people who in my experience lied, manipulated - and made false promises just to get elected

That`s the truth about PiS.

PS. I see you are following the example of your pets.

Let me remind you:

The first post in this thread enumerates 17 cases of PiS` unfulfilled promises. Most of them vital to all Poles. You tried to excuse some of them but you failed completely. Now you are trying to divert the discussion and point to PO`s faults in the past.

My advice: take it to another thread. Now, we are discussing PiS, not PO.
HA!

I will pester you forever whith this thread :) :P

It is really useless, You proved nothing of value to successfully defend PiS. Sorry. hahaha
gumishu 11 | 5,603
10 Jul 2020 #50
PO would have achieved the same result if they had remained in power.

nice trick beacause there is no way to verify it - but look at the table

during PO rule

budget income: incl indirect taxes: incl VAT

2008 - 253 bln 153 101
2009 - 274 155 99
2010 - 250 165 108
2011 - 277 180 120
2012 - 287 182 120
2013 - 279 175 113
2014 - 283 187 124
2015 - 289 187 123
2016 - 314 193 126
2017 - 350 226 156
2018 - 380 249 175
2019 - 400 255 183

I guess you will brush off the numbers like you do - właściwie nie wiem po co to robię bo to jak grochem o ścianę
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
10 Jul 2020 #51
I guess you will brush off the numbers like you do

Numbers shnumbers. You conveniently avoid mentioning the crisis of 2008 and you blame PO for low budget income in those years.

Now, we are experiencing another crisis and where are those wonderful numbers created by PiS government? I can`t see them. hahaha

The only thing that PiS did with the financial surplus was to give benefits. They squandered all the money in this way. No vital problem was solved. Everything is still going to the dogs. What about better health care? What about better education? What about efficient judiciary? What about cheap flats for young wanna-be emigrants? What about new technologies? etc etc etc The list goes on to point 17 of unfulifilled poromises.

Nothing was improved. Don`t tell me about numbers coz they mean nothing is they are only spent on benefits.
gumishu 11 | 5,603
10 Jul 2020 #52
They squandered all the money in this way.

people got 500+ - for many families it meant the children could eat well for the first time - people don't have to emigrate to survive anymore

better education? can't be done without better teachers

better healthcare - can't be done without enough doctors who take advantage of the free education and than leave for greener pastures (including inland greener pastures)

cheap flats? have you seen city authorities (mostly opposition) giving up their valuable land for PiS government to succeed in building cheap flats (where local authorities cooperated flats were indeed built)

PO had 8 years to do it all -and they failed - they funneled 150 billion PLN of retirement funds' assets and it didn't help - they wanted to privatize hospital or close them - how much would it help the populace - care to explain

new technologies? are there enough innovators in this country at all - vocational education has been scrapped by previous governments and now firms are hard pressed to find suitably trained work force - have you heard of Łągiewka and his inertia dissipating mechanism - Polish patent authorities denied him a patent for years - this is how centralized beaurocratic innovation works and acts

in all of this areas there is a significant resistence of the previous system - what about the demands for raising the salaries of policemen, teachers, nurses and young doctors (all fulfilled) - it all cost money - and guess what it didn't change much

it's all a rant - and I understand some of your points - maybe PiS are not the brightest people on earth - maybe they have failed with some points - maybe they lack vision in some areas - but I believe they acted in the interest of the average Pole and not the elites who exploited the population - I believe the injection of money into the market lead to greatly limited unemployment - and I doubt PO would fare any better (because they served the elite not the people)
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
10 Jul 2020 #53
@gumishu
Some good points made. I see some of your arguments too. But 500+ also gave a lot of people money for vodka and nothing else. It created a class of people having babies to make money and not work. It created a low level welfare state in many cases. Cash should never be given to the poor, food stamps or programs like this in the USA are the only way to ensure money is spent appropriately.

You can not just lump PO in one group. Using the past as the argument against the future is juvenile. That's like saying the lightbulb shouldn't have pressed forward n development when the first one failed.

You cant get better teachers, hospitals, doctors and other items if you dont invest in those area's. PiS continually refuses to spend the money where it is most needed. TVP and 3 billion a year ire the perfect example.

Sorry to say, but only a Pu$$y gets the questions before a debate handed to him. Because a person like that is incapable of leading, and incapable of being strong in the face of adversity. Anyone following that person is the same as the one answering the questions IMO. Comparing him to Trump is like comparing a squid to a lion.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
10 Jul 2020 #54
But 500+ also gave a lot of people money for vodka and nothing

dude, we could agree that it is better to leave more money in people's disposal rather than giving handouts like that. Still, it has been long overdue in Poland as people had been screwed bit time by the commies and by the so called transformation. I see it as a lesser evil.

It created a class of people having babies to make money and not work.

In fact some research done in Poland showed that in overwhelming majority of people do not act that way. You can choose not to find it credible but unless you have some hardy facts to back it up ...

When it comes to doctors or whatnot PiS Doesn't spend less that governments before them. As for gov TV it is the same. It had been a standard practice by the all pervious governments to hand out those money. IF you wasn't aware of that fact you might be surprised and that is exactly the point of the propaganda using it against gov. That is BS. You might pay TV tax which is practically not enforced fi you want.

a Pu$$y gets the questions before a debate handed to him.

Do you think Trzaskowski is better. Bevosue I know for a fact that he is even worse in that regard that Duda. He is not able to handle any question that wasn't in his notebook.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
10 Jul 2020 #55
It had been a standard practice by the all pervious governments to hand out those money.

Stop reasoning like a naive child, it is getting boring, we have to explain basic things to you over and over again. We already said it many times here that during 2015 campaign PiS declared to cut down on unnecessary expenses of the government and other political institutions,. Not only didn`t they cut down on them, but they even increased those expenses to amounts unseen and unheard before.

I can add it as point No 18 - the unfulfilled promise of reducing expenses.

You prefer to close an eye to basic facts Or you are simply lying. See them here: Duda`s term cost the taxpayers more than all previous presidents` terms.

wiadomosci.wp.pl/wybory-2020-rekordowy-koszt-pieciu-lat-prezydentury-andrzeja-dudy-6522461145536129a

When it comes to doctors or whatnot PiS Doesn't spend less that governments before them.

Yes, but they promised to improve the health care system and they didn`t, it`s even worse. Check the list of promises, it is one of the points.

He is not able to handle any question that wasn't in his notebook.

Why are you lying? Do people call you Pinocchio? hahaha
gumishu 11 | 5,603
10 Jul 2020 #56
It created a class of people having babies to make money and not work.

I don't know where you get your news from but childbirths only slightly increased after the implementation of 500+ - so either the class who produce babies to earn living is really small or other people just don't procreate at all

I do not only lump PO people together - I also add all the other opposition except Konfederacja and Kukiz to the mix - they are all scum to me who just want to be a ruling elite (ruling for themselves and not to the benefit of the people)

I just learned from my brother (whom I seldom meet these days) that he got to know a person involved in VAT fraud - not as an initiator but as a middle man (firma 'słup') - according to my brother the guy said that he met people from Schetyna's circle in the process who were involved in said VAT fraud - he eventually lost everything he earned this way because PiS starting investigating these things

- this really strenghened my bias against PO who are in my view at least opportunists if not downright thieves - there are exceptions: like the figures of Tusk or Trzaskowski who only feed their egos through politics and don't get involved in criminal activities

I haven't watched the presidential debate before the first round so I have no idea what you are talking about - Duda faced Komorowski and other candidates in debates before the election in 2015 - also I read that Trzaskowski got visibly irritated when asked difficult questions from the few pro-government (or maybe indepedent) media he allowed to his 'debate' in Leszno
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
10 Jul 2020 #57
I just learned from my brother (whom I seldom meet these days) that he got to know a person involved in VAT fraud -

Brother schmother. Please, spare us these tall stories, sucked from your finger to support sick agenda. If that was true, PiS prosecutors would have started tens of investigations against such fraudsters. So far, there has been no single court trial since 2015. Why?
gumishu 11 | 5,603
10 Jul 2020 #58
Why?

I don;t know if there were or weren't any court cases after investigations - TVP quite often broadcast new people being arrested for VAT fraud - maybe they are affraid of politicised judges - I don't know

what I know is the case of this man: Józef Pinior who was sentenced unconditional prison time for taking bribes (though only a symbolic 1.5 year) - he was, from, PO

Please, spare us these tall stories, sucked from your finger to support sick agenda

you are a fanatic man - fanatism blinds

You can not just lump PO in one group.

there were decent people in PO before, true - they are all in PiS now
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
10 Jul 2020 #59
TVP quite often broadcast new people being arrested for VAT fraud - maybe they are affraid of politicised judges - I don't know

buhahaha please, discuss things like a mature person, not a child lost in the fog coz you are like one if you use such cheap arguments. PIS would happily grab such an opportunity without waiting for the court ruling. They could blow the horn about PO`s dishonesty ad nauseam on PiS TV.

But, zonk! No culprits! hahaha

what I know is the case of this man: Józef Pinior who was sentenced

hahaha a drowning man catches at a shity straw. Tonący brzydko się chwyta. Let me remind you, we are talking about VAT.

As for bribes, be patient. In free Poland, all PiS` bribes from nowadays will be investigated and prosecuted.

you are a fanatic man - fanatism blinds

You are a liar who tells tall stories about a brother who.... bla bla bla.
gumishu 11 | 5,603
10 Jul 2020 #60
You are a liar

you are a useful idiot in my opinion - tit for tat

dzienniklodzki.pl/proces-mafii-vatowskiej-w-lodzi-skarb-panstwa-stracil-prawie-250-mln-zl/ar/c1-14746542


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