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Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia


Arina20100410    
10 Apr 2010  #91
- The traditionally superstitious people of Russia will take it as a sign of God, that Kaczynski was not granted to show up in Katyn. They will even more than now unite against the Polish point of view of Russian-Polish relations.

what an absurd!!! Rusian people are shocked as well! and full of sincere condolences!!!

"unite against the Polish" - absolutely adsurdic, sorry....
Marek11111 9 | 827    
10 Apr 2010  #92
stop blaming Jews, Russians there were no investigation
if you want to blame someone blame Polish shady mechanic work
Sire Brenshar 1 | 61    
10 Apr 2010  #93
I did. I was trying to make the point that each lost soul on that plane was just as important as any other. Some may be more news worthy that's all.

Understood. I even agree with you.
fmi - | 1    
10 Apr 2010  #94
We mourn with you!
From Bulgarian people!
wildrover 98 | 4,458    
10 Apr 2010  #95
he wouldn't've clipped a tree.

Its not that hard to clip a tree if you are on the wrong glide path , which it seems he might have been....You only need to be slighty below the glide path , and the result is you are fifty feet to low approaching the end of the runway , thats more than enough to make contact with a tree top , especially in thick fog when you can see nothing at all...

One witness , a Polish guy said that the left wing was dipped , possibly as a result of the pilot banking the aircraft to go round again , if he was already too low then that dropped wing would be all that was needed to contact a tree and cause the crash....

We are all just guessing untill the accident report comes out...but i would put money on it just being down to an unwise decision to land in bad weather..nothing more...no sinister plot..just a human error that resulted in tragedy....
Seanus 15 | 19,742    
10 Apr 2010  #96
Circling 4 times is odd. That really doesn't happen often. Also, an experienced pilot would be in regular contact with those on the ground in the event of uncertainty of landing. This will be the info that I'll be looking for. The black box should be for open inspection. It cannot be only that territorial jurisdiction applies given the human interest factor. Hard questions will have to be answered and it is this which the Russian top brass will have to be ready for.
convex 20 | 3,985    
10 Apr 2010  #97
Its not that hard to clip a tree if you are on the wrong glide path , which it seems he might have been....You only need to be slighty below the glide path , and the result is you are fifty feet to low approaching the end of the runway , thats more than enough to make contact with a tree top , especially in thick fog when you can see nothing at all...

There is no precision approach available at that airport. They were eye balling it.

Circling 4 times is odd. That really doesn't happen often. Also, an experienced pilot would be in regular contact with those on the ground in the event of uncertainty of landing. This will be the info that I'll be looking for.

No tower either. ATC advised diverting, flight crew decided to attempt a landing despite being illegal.

There were no options once they took off from Warsaw this morning. It was either land in Smolensk, or miss the ceremony. There's your problem.
garlic    
10 Apr 2010  #98
No country will kill president of other country on it's own territory. Sorry, but it is very stupid to think this tragedy was made by Putin. It is more possible to make it by Obama, but I think that it really was accident.

RIP. Niech spoczywaja w Pokoju
SouthMancPolak - | 104    
10 Apr 2010  #99
omg, I've just heard that the priest who conducted my marriage ceremony died in that accident. I never imagined that such an event could become so personal :(
Seanus 15 | 19,742    
10 Apr 2010  #100
youtube.com/watch?v=8OytAQFCkFs&feature=channel, this is a good account from people that are not likely to be biased.
f stop 25 | 2,521    
10 Apr 2010  #101
I feel so bad for the pilot. Three attempts.. He must have known he was talking a hell of a chance. Why did he take it?
garlic    
10 Apr 2010  #102
It is really the great tragedy, and for us too. And of course i expect that some young polish people will blame russians in it. Just because they are not smart enough to understand. I don't know the real reason of this tragedy, but i'm sure, people shouldnt start to hate one other. Keep this world in peace.
Seanus 15 | 19,742    
10 Apr 2010  #103
Obstinacy perhaps, f stop. Also, they were pressed for time so wanted to take a chance. It was foolish given the shoddy state of the airport and the bad record of that particular plane.
jonni 16 | 2,491    
10 Apr 2010  #104
I feel so bad for the pilot. Three attempts.. He must have known he was talking a hell of a chance. Why did he take it?

The cockpit voice recorder will presumably clear that up.
Pro_Svet_Spb 1 | 41    
10 Apr 2010  #105
Deep condolences from St.Petersburg, Russia

That was shocked everyone...

P.S. U.S. and G.B. was always putting sticks in to the Russian "wheels"...

such as a buffer zone between Russia and Europe, 'cause if they don't they will have no influence on Europe (eastern Europe incl.)

Think : 1. Russian territory
2. Russian aircraft
3. Subject of meeting : KATYN

Ideal situation to blame Russia again, when they(Russia-Poland) start talks as a partners.

And only idiots can believe it's KGB dirty job. ^100% CIA-SAS^

Once again we are very sorry for all Polish People.

St.Petersburg, Russia.
Bathory - | 2    
10 Apr 2010  #106
Our polish brothers! Please accept our condolences from Hungary, from the hungarian peoples! Keep the faith, the fight goes on!

„Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki.”
from Russia    
10 Apr 2010  #107
And only idiots can believe it's KGB dirty job. ^100% CIA-SAS^

By the way I think so.
But my husband scolded me for these thoughts. It is not true. It can't be.
convex 20 | 3,985    
10 Apr 2010  #108
The cockpit voice recorder will presumably clear that up.

Doubtful. I think the pressure was probably more indirect than direct. The CVR will just tell a sad tale of a crew that was working under immense pressure with no backup plan (diversion was unacceptable, bad planning).
Bathory - | 2    
10 Apr 2010  #109
If this wasn't an accident, I belive this was a US and/or Israel OR chetchen job! But not russian! Those powers should make conflicts between european peoples, countries or blame this on Russia!
Seanus 15 | 19,742    
10 Apr 2010  #110
What, America, Israel or the Chechens put the fog there and shortened the runway? Come on, it was the culmination of 4 factors:

1) The bad call of the pilot

2) The short runway, 30 years pretty much as a defunct airport

3) The plane which was known to be suspect

4) The fog which engulfed the area.

The pilot actually got to the runway but ran parallel to it and couldn't correct so had to go round again. That's what the reports are saying anyway.
Żenada    
10 Apr 2010  #111
Ye, pilot mistake and plane with some years on neck...

Tommorow on 12:00(utc+1) is 2min silence if some one wanna know
Seanus 15 | 19,742    
10 Apr 2010  #112
I feel bad that Skrzypek died, the banker. With him out of the way, the NWO guys can put sb in place who wil push the Euro through. He was problematic for other bankers that packed a punch but I salute him for making the złoty strong. What was a senior banker doing on that flight?

MarcinD, there is sth you are forgetting. It wasn't a military plane that was duty bound to land. It is merely advisory in this case, they had the option.

What does surprise me, however, is how his crew placed so much trust in him given that they would likely have extensive aviation knowledge. They surely would have anticipated the tragedy to follow and have advised him to contact Russian HQ ASAP so that they could land in Moscow.
Pro_Svet_Spb 1 | 41    
10 Apr 2010  #113
Latest Russian news (i-net transl.):«Landing was made at strong fog. The trajectory on landing shows that the deviation from strip was not only on height, but also on horizon approximately 150 metres», — the head of the Ministry of Emergency Measures of the Russian Federation Sergey Shojgu speaks.

The Russian dispatchers suggested the Polish pilots to plant the liner in Moscow or Minsk. But were refused. At landing the liner clings to tops of trees and falls downwards. To landing strip the board hasn't held on only 300 metres. On shots from place of events it is visible that chassis have got stuck among branches.

«On removal of 1,5 kilometres the group of management of flights has found out that the crew has increased vertical speed of decrease and has started to decrease more low глиссады. The head of flights has given command to crew about plane transfer in horizontal flight, and when the crew hasn't executed instructions, has some times given command on leaving on spare airdrome. Nevertheless the crew continued to decrease. Unfortunately, it has ended tragically», — the first deputy chief of the General staff of the Air Forces lieutenant general Alexander Alyoshin has declared.

....
Dougpol    
10 Apr 2010  #114
RIP the victims of this sensless and, in hindsight, easily avoidable tragedy,

Katyn - I had almost forgotten about the massacre of the 15 thousand, or was it 19 thousand, or 21 thousand officers> 10 would be a crime, but it's in THE PAST!

Oh yes - and doesn't my adopted country enjoy reminding us? I was of the belief that Katyn happened 70 years ago. Terrible things happened everywhere, but the Polish nation consistently acts as if those tragedies happened to them.

The result of this backward thinking can be seen everywhere in the Poland of today:

Grim inner cities
Socialist thinking, particulary from PIS
Conservative public investment of infrastructure
Corrupt City Councils
Watered down legislation, such as the anti-smoking law debacle
Party political appoitments in every public body
Dangerous roads and dangerous drivers (perpetuated by stupid driving test regulations)
Education ( Level 1 and Level 2 Matura - don't get me started on that shite!)
Health and the omniprescient envelope under the table.

Yet Poles still bang on about Katyn because it's easier to look back than to look forward - that is the real crime perpetuated by the state and engendered by (some) of the population.

My friends and immediate family are different needless to say - I couldn't be on close terms with people who stick their heads in the sand - often for what are suspiciously altruistic reasons.

So, ergo, no Poland feeling sorry for itself all the time, no presidential high level mission to Katyn, no senseless tragedy such as we saw today.
grubas 12 | 1,392    
10 Apr 2010  #115
Those Tu's were brought to the public eye on numerous occasions.. each gov swept buying them under the carpet to avoid supposed public critique of them spending tax money on luxuries

Yak's 40 were to be replaced,not TU's 154.
wildrover 98 | 4,458    
10 Apr 2010  #116
The plane which was known to be suspect

There was no sugestion there was anything wrong with the aircraft......
Ziemowit 9 | 2,863    
10 Apr 2010  #117
Seanus:
What was a senior banker doing on that flight?
---------------------
Maybe to fill up numbers of delegation? The Kremlin refused to meet with Kaczynski.

The Kremlin, that is Prime Minister Putin, met his Polish counterpart in Katyń a few days earlier. On that day it was the official Polish-Russian celebration of the tragedy of Katyń. Today's celebrations were meant as entirely "Polish" event, so the presence of any Kremlin officials were not envisaged at all. The Polish central bank governor Sławomir Skrzypek was just among the many Polish representatives for these celebrations.
Seanus 15 | 19,742    
10 Apr 2010  #118
What also gets me is why they didn't leave earlier as they surely would have checked the weather forecast. That's standard in aviation, to know the conditions of your target destination. They rushed it and surely that was bad planning. I refuse to believe that an official delegation would hash things together at the last moment and risk their lives in so doing. It just doesn't fit.

Lech may have seen fit to ignore some Russian advice but not such advice, surely??

Wildrover, it was known to be a suspect plane in the industry. Check aviation sites online and they'll confirm that. Check the views of experts on TVPInfo today.
MarcinD 4 | 135    
10 Apr 2010  #119
There was no sugestion there was anything wrong with the aircraft......

Looking at the picture of the plane, let's just say it's not Air Force 1 which American leaders fly with. Seems like a decision in saving money. . . .
JerzyBarKosiba - | 1    
10 Apr 2010  #120
I believe it is more than coincidence. Stalin was responsible for the plane crash that killed Prseident Sikorski in WWII. They never found the pilot of Sikorski's plane. There may have been complicity with the Stalin and the allies in the death of Sikorski. The allies included Polish troops in the front lines of many military operations, i.e Market Garden, Monte Casino, would remain to oppose the post-war Stalinist regime. Many Polish trops were arrested by the Soviets following their forced repatriations to Poland at the end of the war. Only time will tell if the new Polish president is very friendly to the Ruskies. I wonder if they found the pilot of President Lech Kaczynski's plane.

Although Katin was only one site of the mass murders of Polish troops, it is very ominous that Smolensk is the site of the crash. Stalin ordered the murder of many more Poles at other sites. I wouldn't ever trust the Russians. Remember, Putin was a member of the KGB and now he is incharge of the crash investigation.




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