Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia

I'm only going to say: I saw the news last night, and just heard more today; my condolances to Poland and her people.

....oh and it begins

It may well be that the planes unatural angle was caused by it losing part of its wing after contact with a radar antenna before it hit the trees...

The shape of an aircrafts wings are designed to generate lift as the air flows over them , thats what keeps it in the air , and if you get a situation where one of those wings suddenly becomes a bit smaller , perhaps due to hitting a radar antenna and losing a portion of wing . you will get a whole lot less lift on that wing...

The first thing that happens is that wing will drop as it loses lift , and in many cases the aircraft will roll over and go into a spin...

If you have enough height , and you have not lost too much wing , you can compensate the loss of lift on that wing , by use of the controls , but this aircraft was already way too low , and the dipped wing just made it even more impossible to keep clear of the looming trees...It may be it had lost enough wing to be certain to crash anyway , but further contacts with the trees made a crash certain...Hitting the trees with one wing dipped would have sent the aircraft cartwheeling into the ground...there was no chance of any survivors....

Or just ramming into a huge metal pole that's anchored into the ground.

The KGB does not exist any more , their security services are now called the FSB...

Now why would they want to doctor the black boxes , maybe to show the pilot did not fly to low after all , and that in fact the aircraft was shot down by a Russian missile..??

The black boxes will be examined by a joint team from Russia and Poland , i think the FSB will not be involved in this in any way , unless there is some evidence that there was a terrorist attack , not likely i think...!

I do wonder at the mentality of people who think the Russians had a hand in this disaster... An aircraft hits the ground trying to land at a poorly equipped airfield in thick fog , but no , can,t be an accident...must be a Russian plot to kill the Polish government.... what a dick...!

many of my co-workers came to talk to me today about this sad news... they said it was shocking and unbelievable...

The strangest thing I find about this incident is why there was so many top officials on one plane, it's like they they were setting themselves up for a disaster. None of us know what happened in that cockpit, Anything could have happened the pilot may even have had a heart attack. All the sabotage theories reminds of when Kennedy was shot, the finger was pointed at all sorts even LBJ. I personally was not sorry to see him removed, he put Britain right in the firing line over the Bay of Pigs we would have been the first to go in Europe. I have no respect for any politician or for the world bank. Or for the saber rattlers on this thread who talk so glibly of war, try it don't fantasize about it they are looking for recruits for Afghanistan. If you get back tell me if you want to go back again.

i know... that's, unfortunately, a Polish style... :/

This is what happened in the cockpit:

Pilot: Mr. President it's not safe to land here.

Mr. Prez: STFU and land now!

Plane: Boom!

The Simplest Answer is Usually Correct.

What you choose to take for the simplest answer is usually inspired by the things you see and read in mainstream media.

I am quite amazed by the amount of disrespect many people show on these forums. Thank you for this lesson - I was hoping that something has changed but this reminded me of what Einstein said about the infinite human stupidity.

Poles seem to think they are immune from accidents, just look at the way they drive.

The traffic has stopped everywhere for the coffin of Pani Kaczynski - which tells you in simple terms how marveloous a woman she was. Without her calming influence her husband would have led Poland to even more derision on the foreign stage than he actually did.

It's been said that behind every successful man is an even more successful woman. May All Rest in Peace.

We all need this calming influence.

Well, we may have Sikorski and his Jewish wife to look forward to ;0 ;)

Polish President Lech Kaczynski and First Lady, Maria Kaczynska, are to be buried in Wawel Cathedral in Krakow on Sunday...

picture from the place

notice the place where Tu 154 had 'first contact with the ground'
easy to spot

this is how the scene is secured for investigation. Reporters playing with plane parts. This is astonishing.

edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europe/04/12/russia.crash.scene/index.html?hpt=C2

Didn't they have that subway up and running after only 4 or 5 hours after the bomb?

Does anyone have the link to the cockpit voice recording?? This morning ctv news channel here in canada played a 15sec part of it from a russki website but i'm unable to find anything on the net now...

Shawn, did you watch ctv this morning by any chance?

Well, that's one possibility.

galvestondailynews.com/wire.lasso?report=/dynamic/stories/U/US_PILOTS_BURDEN

Everyone assumes the pilot wanted to divert, and someone, most assume the President, pressured him otherwise. There are other possibilities as well. There are pilots, and I'm not saying this was one, that do not need that much encouragement for a chance to display their courage and abilities.

Never heard of a Catholic being buried on a Sunday.

My deepest condolences to the people of Poland...

My prays and condolences to Poland and Polish people !

Excuse my english, but I have to write som words and express...

Dear polish friends, I remember famous hero, hero of Russian-Caucasus War, noble polish officer - Teofil Lapinsky. He had knew very well and lately also writed historic books about what is Russia and what to expect from Russia in wars. How they act and their killer strategy. It was about 186o years.

Now - in 2010, and the same kremlin gangsters, liquidated the other independent (from russia-imperialist-satanist brainwash) generation of Polish people.

Dear friends, I cant realise only one thing - how you allow your noble President and your political, military, cultural and science leaders, to fly into damn Russia, without any air-army-guards ! to Katin, to place were they killed the essence of Polish nation, just not long time ago !

We, people from Caucasus, sorrow for Lech Kaczynski and your politics and leaders, not only for they were our supporters, but for that they were noble, truthfulness, personalities, that didnt afraid to oppose the Devils, under kremlin-leader masks. May be they were final opposition bastion contro Big-Liars, in so called "Big Politics"!

Sad...Very sad...

God bless and guard Jaroslav Kaczynski. And help him in the investigations and to make the reality and truth about Mass-Polish-Kill-II-action , widely known.

God bless Poland !

From North Caucasus. former Circassia.

All emotion, little logic. Living in the past, keeping hate alive. Old style Polish.

Old style? Current style, I'd say.

Emotions ? YES ! they are ! And existence of my emotions doesnt mean absense of logic.
It doesnt follow logically. Only bloody killers, robots and dictators (oftenly in one face) and their servants and agents (oftenly they are on forums) dont have emotoins.

They have only calculations = how to kill, how much to kill, and were to kill. That is their main emotion and logic.

So, that your friends killed innocent people in Moscow metro?

I meant old Polish people style. Young ones don't seem to filter everything around them through the hate of russians, jews, germans..