Polish police chief removes crosses

Yes, but smart people cna also have a distorted psyche, harbour some pet complexes, phobias or obsessions or just be downright contradictious and ornery. You really don't take these people seriously do you? If you said water was wet they would probably imemdiately call for links. When you posted them, they'd say the source was unrelaiable. And they would nitpick for peripheral pseudo-evidence, dodgey statistics and off-the-wall ripostes just to keep the altercation going. Some people thrive on anarchic bickering. There's not much anyone can do about it.


And when are you going back to the bonnie highlands of Meanville or is it Scroogeton?

Polonius3, please stop with the idiotic comments. All that you are going to achieve is a long suspension for yourself. If you don't like other folk then simply ignore them. Thank you.

About the same time that you take Polish citizenship.

4 eigner wrote:


I mean, if we're going to have this discussion, it's gotta' maintain at least some level of accuracy.

EVERY catholic was forced to be Catholic. Do you remember the long talk you had with your parents when you were 6 weeks old, just before they baptized you, and they asked you what religion you were most interested in and why? That's right, because it never happened. It also didn't happen when you were 5 or 6 and received Communion. And how would it have gone if when you were 14 you told your parents, "yeah, you know what, I know that our entire family, extended family, friends, neighbors, co-workers....yeah pretty much everyone we know is catholic and has completed their sacraments, but after much thought, I think I'm done with this whole catholic thing, I'm just not going to do Confirmation....."

There's a reason why Saudis are not Catholic....because their parents didn't force them to be when they were young and didn't know any better. No, instead they forced them to take on another religion and to look at women as 3rd class citizens. 4th if we're counting the dog.

I mean.....if we're going to be accurate here.

This 92% I keep hearing is grossly inaccurate and you all know it. For most people that don't go to church anymore and have no attachment to the RCC at all, they're still going to check the "Catholic" box when asked what religion they are. It's that simple. They're not at the "Atheist" point, at least not yet, so when given the other choices, they're going to claim Catholic. Simples.

I guess what I'm saying is if you're not a full blown atheist or if at the very least you're not sure, you're going to put the check mark next to the religion you grew up with.

While most of your post is true, this statement is false. There are exceptional later-life converts.


Very probably true but most people here don't seem to oppose crucifixes on walls however Catholic or not they really are, so?

It is a very accurate figure indicating the percentage of self-declared Catholics in Poland. Nothing more,
nothing less.
Although infant baptism is the Catholic norm, anyone who feels so inclined can pull a Palikot and sign an Act of Apostasy. A publicity-seeker could also try to be a poor man's Martin Luther by tacking it up on the door of the local catehdral. But be sure to alert the TV crews in good time.

agreed. if we're going to be entirely accurate, I should have said something like "over 99%" or something like that.

some others go to prison and come out catholic ;)

Polonius3 wrote:


I don't agree and provided my reasons as to why.

Where did the figure come from?

Most Poles freely declare themselves Roman Catholic, that's where the figure comes from DD. Accept it! I bet, you'd hate it too if someone would tell you that you're not what you say you are, right?

Hm, it's hard for me to believe in that number as well. Especially among younger ppl, like teenagers. The last time I saw statistics it was something like 86% of Poles registered in the RCC and among that number we also have ppl that want to leave the church (like me and 4 other ppl in my family). But as I said- I'm not sure one way or the other.

CBOS was the source. But it indeed seems a bit strange for someone to so vigorously and ardently question a self-declaration figure, unless one analyses things a bit more deeply. Pehraps this has nothing to do with Poland but rather the questioner's psychological hang-up. Perhaps it's his need for belonging that is involved -- the higher the figure of support for something he does not equate or identify with, the more that tells him he is a misfit and outcast in Polish society. And nobody wants to be that so he is trying to reduce the Catholic self-declaration level by hook or by crook.

there are many links to choose from, Lenka. Whether you believe it or not is a different story. As far as I'm concerned, I choose to believe the numbers and my own experience (I lived in Poland). Don't forget, you live in a city where everything seems to be different than in other places in Poland and Varsovians tend to be more ... liberal than the rest of your countrymen.

I don't live in Warsaw. I don't even live in a big city. I live in a small town and although it's right the majority is Catholic I wouldn't say it's even 90% let alone 99.

I never said 99% Lenka. The number I see usually is around 93% but anyways, I guess, it will be your experience against mine then. I wasn't there just for a visit. I believe, four years in Poland is enough to determine whether the links are correct or not.

Good for you! You are therefore surrounded by more real people, salt-of-the-earth types, and fewer of the big-city phonies, snobs and elitists as well as and keeping-up-appearances and looking-down-their-nose hypocrites.

W 2011 roku liczba osób ochrzczonych przez polski Kościół katolicki, wynosząca 33 399 328, stanowiła 86,66% populacji Polski, szacowanej na 38 538 447 osób (In 2011 the number of ppl baptised by Polish Catholic Church was 86,66% of the society of Poland)

Hmm, interesting. Although it's true around 90% declare themselfs as Catholics "only" 86,66% of society is baptised. So no, it's probably less than 80% of Catholics in Poland.

Church itself says it's less:
Według Instytutu Statystyki kościoła Katolickiego wierzący katolicy stanowią 60,8% ludności Polski ( The Institute of Statistics of Catholic Church says believing Cathilics make for 60,8% of the population of Poland)

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kościół_katolicki_w_Polsce

Not that any of this matters in the discussion about crosses in public space anyway.

(6 miesięcy temu aktualizowany 6 miesięcy temu) it says it right above the pic, to the left from it

as for that part of your statement "Według Instytutu Statystyki kościoła Katolickiego wierzący katolicy stanowią 60,8% ludności Polski", I'm sure, Polonius3 will give you a much better answer than I'll be ever able to as I'm not a Catholic myself, only here to defend people's rights to believe whatever they choose to believe.

Oh, ppl can believe what they want. I don't even mind when they wake me up in the morning with some singing and praying when having a little pilgrime (always goes right outside my window) but as to the crosses in public places I'm pro "all or none".

Everybody has got a right to believe that the earth is flat, that they were created by Mother Goose, that there is no god but Allah, that Marxism is superior to capitalism and vice-versa, that free condom dispensers should be found in every primary school, that there is no global warming and the polar bears are just pretending to have less ice cover to explore, that the drinking and voting age should be lowered to 16 or even 14, that the Man-Boy Love Associaton and the Church of Scientology hsould be legalised in Poland, that true freedom means the right to carry firearms, etc., etc., etc.

No-one is preventing people believing such things. One might pity them a bit but no-one's got the right to exert thought control of the kind the Politically Correct dictatorship tries to impose.

oh, I'm glad you give your countrymen that right ;-)


look, the crosses were always present in Poland and if they never bothered anyone for so long (about 1000 years or so), why would anyone want them go now? It's just, let's call it, a liberal trend that wants them go and undoubtedly the vast majority of your countrymen are not a part of that trend, so why punish so many people just to make happy a few?

Would you be willing to bankroll the cost? Or as they say in America - put your money where your mouth is? Would you really want the emblem of every faith, denoimination, religous movment, subculture, etc. even if it had only three members to 'grace' (or rather deface) the wall of the Sejm? And every school, hospital, town hall, police station and firehouse across the land? You know that's a bit of empty sloganeering which can never be realised, so its a devious way to to ban the Cross of Christ in this Cahtolic land.

Good point Polo: if believers of whatever faith want their religious symbol displayed somewhere, it should be for them to pay for that symbol, not the tax payer (and probably maximum size and so on should be regulated).

Hmm, we never had any referendum or something like that on the cross. My mum is Catholic and she too thinks cross has no place in public space, the same goes for my brother and his wife. Who knows how many ppl think like that? The mere fact we have majority of Catholics doesn't mean they all want the crosses in Sejm and schools.

What about the White Eagle? State symbols of any kind are offensive to Jehovah's Witnesses and Anarchists, and yet their tax money is used to bankroll them.

The point is that the Cross and Eagle have been time-honoured symbols of Poland since time immemorial, and no Harry-come-lately or other know-all foreigner is going to change that with his wishful thinking and devious sophistry.

The cross is a symbol of Poland? Really? So why isn't that symbol on the Polish flag? There's a cross on Malta's flag, and on several other European nations' flags. And if Poland is represented by the cross, why are fewer than a third of Poles in church on any given Sunday?

Why do British atheists sing the national anthem?

what is on the english flag ?? a cross of saint george!

The name for the flag is the Saint George.Any person who sings the British national anthem is admitting there is a God.

Here are the lyrics:

lyricsondemand.com/miscellaneouslyrics/nationalanthemslyrics/britiannationalanthemlyrics.html

What does this have to do with emblems? The cross as the symbol of the true Catholic Poland is enshrined in the heart of every true Pole - not on some banner or in some document. The Nordics all have crosses on their flags and are amongst Europe's most faithless nations, even worse than the Brits.

What about the 1000 years of Poland with crosses? Does history mean anything to you? As a tolerant and liberal thinking woman, as you say you are, why does it matter to you, whether something meaningless (in your opinion) as crosses, will be removed from Poland or not?

I mean, if it doesn't mean anything to you then why worry about it, right? Just ignore it, don't look at it.

Gazeta Wyborcza tells her crosses must go. In the name of progress, tolerance, and bolshevik ideals. Plus crosses are fascist. And lead to Holocausts.