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Poles say a big YES to our European Union


Novichok - | 2,142
3 Jan 2021 #571
Goods and people go on the same road.

Because they are allowed. Nothing easier than filtering out people as opposed to objects. The US stopped the flights from China and Europe, but the goods were allowed, as far as I know.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
3 Jan 2021 #572
But this thread has got nothing to do with the US or China or Russia
Novichok - | 2,142
3 Jan 2021 #573
I should be allowed to use examples to show that a general statement is incorrect. In this case that if goods are allowed in so must people. False every which way. We know how to allow one without the other.
Tacitus 2 | 1,237
4 Jan 2021 #574
impossible to defend on a logical and pragmatic level.

I just did that several times now. Merkel had the choice between two options, and she chose the one that would be less harmful to Germamy's interests in the long run.

have insisted that it was a very good decisio

It was a good decision given the circumstances and one can proudly look back to in the future.

failure that was literally _years_

Very true, everybody not in Southern Europe was willing to ignore the issue for years, until it came knocking in 2015. Merkel was briefed by the German secret service in 2015 that the refugees might upset the fragile peace in the Balkans. Not exactly something many would like to risk.

assimilation of children does work

That is more or less what is being done with the new arrivals now.

Because they are allowed.

Your ignorance is truly staggering. If you close the border for refugees you will need controls which of course will also heavily affect the traffic with goods. This scenario has been discussed a few times at the Brenner pass at the border between Austria and Italy, the costs would have been in the billions for each month.

themeditelegraph.com/en/transport/road-rail-air-transport/2016/04/12/news/closing-the-brenner-pass-costs-140-billion-1.38162554
Novichok - | 2,142
4 Jan 2021 #575
I just did that several times now. Merkel had the choice between two options

You can repeat that crap 1000 times and nobody here will believe it unless you show evidence that she did her best to keep the hordes away. Instead, she invited the scum. Rather than deporting the hordes out, she tried to deport them within. Like to Poland.

If you close the border for refugees

If you "close the borders", they would be in Germany illegally and subject to deportation, not as welcome "guests".
Crow 146 | 9,122
4 Jan 2021 #576
Its obvious that Merkel done great job for certain big corporations.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
4 Jan 2021 #577
That is more or less what is being done with the new arrivals now.

Probably less.... because it depends on reinforcing the message "join us! our society is better than your parents' society - that's why you're here in the first place"

It doesn't have to explicit and shouted out loud but it needs to be the agenda.... anything else will fail
Crow 146 | 9,122
4 Jan 2021 #578
You are all crazy if you think that Pope isnt happy with refugees in Europe. Its not just about washing of legs. Its about mixing and globalization. Oh Papacy rejoice with new souls on the market. One soul, few coins.
Novichok - | 2,142
4 Jan 2021 #579
Oh Papacy rejoice with new souls on the market.

...because this parasite is responsible for nothing while faking that knows everything.
Tacitus 2 | 1,237
4 Jan 2021 #580
they would be in Germany illegally

They are in Germany illegally, or specifically the crossed the border illegally. Every refugee who crossed the border on foot usually signs a waver acknowledging this before they apply for asylum. But the right for asylum trumps any possible border violation, just as no hospital can turn you away because you parked in front of a fire hydrant.
Crow 146 | 9,122
4 Jan 2021 #581
@Novichok

You Poles have nothing more in common with the Vatican, considering Vaticans forced globalization and morbid violance on Serbs what in fact was and is attack on vital Polish inteterests.
Dave Peter Polski
5 Jan 2021 #582
Hope Poland is thrown out of the EU. New law on abortion, government named PiS, low wages - it's a third world country run by muppets and bible bashers.
pawian 176 | 14,299
5 Jan 2021 #583
Hope Poland is thrown out of the EU

Not so fast. Poland needs the EU but it also works the other way round - losing us would be just another blow after brexit.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
5 Jan 2021 #584
Hope Poland is thrown out of the EU

hey Me too! That would be a great day for Poland. Unfortunately the EU doesn't want to do it and never will as they gain too much from Poland being in the EU. Sad thought they wouldn't go and kick Poland out,.
pawian 176 | 14,299
5 Jan 2021 #585
the EU doesn't want to do it and never will

Thank God. I will say prayers for the benevolent EU tonight.
Crow 146 | 9,122
5 Jan 2021 #586
Hope Poland is thrown out of the EU.

hey Me too! That would be a great day for Poland. Unfortunately the EU doesn't want to do it and never will

Yes, Poland is annexed by the EU.

The last trap Poland was into, the Warsaw Pact, and the Soviet Union was founded on communism.

The EU trap was and is founded on the Vatican. Ultimately, on the Vatican, where it is obvious now even Germany is used as a condom. Colored condom but still just a condom.
rtfm 1 | 44
6 Jan 2021 #587
The EU is attractive to the poorer nations simply because of free money and the opportunity for the citizens to leave to work in richer member states.

Once Poland becomes a net contributor I think feelings towards the EU here will change especially as the EU attempts to become ever more controlling and dictatorial. Although many Polish people I know see the EU for what it is - a communist super state in the making.

Although the free money and opportunities have been good for Poland, it will all change when the next wave of poorer countries join, Polish jobs/factories all move abroad and Polish taxes start paying for new infrastructure in Turkey (or wherever).
OP jon357 66 | 17,069
6 Jan 2021 #588
become ever more controlling and dictatorial.

Does it?

Polish jobs/factories all move abroad

To China or India, for example?
pawian 176 | 14,299
6 Jan 2021 #589
it will all change when the next wave of poorer countries join

When is it going to happen???

Although many Polish people I know see the EU

What percentage of your acquaintances???
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
6 Jan 2021 #590
It is not simply because they can work in McDonalds in London or get a nicer airport. All Poles know that EU membership has created many more jobs in Poland and increased living standards hugely since 2004 (did you see what Poland was like pre EU ?)

You got your Brexit so lets see how it works out for you.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
6 Jan 2021 #591
All Poles know

Thank you for explaining the point of view of "all Poles"

It is not simply because they can work in McDonalds in London

That's the limit of your ambition? In that case I'm looking for a new cleaning person and I tip generously. Send me your references.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
6 Jan 2021 #592
Is there any Pole who can read and would deny that unemployment has fallen since 2004, that wages have gone up and that jobs created has gone up ?
Spike31 2 | 2,110
6 Jan 2021 #593
That's a rookie mistake. Correlation does not imply causation.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
6 Jan 2021 #594
Actually.... you're wrong.

Correlation, at the very least, most definitely implies causation. It doesn't _prove_ causation but only fools think that correlation can/should be ignored....
Spike31 2 | 2,110
6 Jan 2021 #595
Actually.... you're wrong.

In that case, we'll take your word over the whole discipline of statistics and causal analysis.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
mafketis 24 | 9,385
6 Jan 2021 #596
Anna: How did you break your leg?
Adam: I dunno... it's a real mystery...
Anna: Didn't you fall off the roof of your house?
Adam: Correlation does not imply causation.
Anna: I guess we'll never know....
Adam: Weird....
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
6 Jan 2021 #597
You have some alternative explanations then Spike ? Backed up by some evidence ?

The same trend in rising living standards has been observed at all the other new entrants in 2004. So that is correlation x 10
Crow 146 | 9,122
6 Jan 2021 #598
Polish jobs/factories all move abroad

It won't come to that. Rules of engagement in the global economy changes. Factories would remain there where there is energy and the Baltic-Balkan line is one of very few best energy points in the world, with a rich natural local resources base. That is why the EU struggles to keep it and exploit, while the USA and Russia obviously have other plans, to say, won't be against the formation of the Central European Union.
rtfm 1 | 44
6 Jan 2021 #599
@pawian - when the next wave of countries join the EU I'm not sure but it will happen, the EU wants to seek expansion it doesn't seek to stay as it is. I'd say it's more than half of Poles I've spoken to that see the EU as EUSSR in disguise.

Jon, yes the EU does by its very nature seek to become more controlling. That's the whole idea of ever tighter integration. It has some benefits but is at the eventual cost of the erosion of individual states independence and identity. Manufacturing would move wherever it is cheaper which would be whatever poor country joined next and got a huge load of EU grants to help it upgrade itself. Any trade that's moved to China already is irrelevant, I am talking about what is left.
pawian 176 | 14,299
6 Jan 2021 #600
when the next wave of countries join the EU

It isn`t going to be next year or two. It is a song of a distant future, so le`ts not worry about it now. We are living now. What will happen in year 2040 is less important.

the EU wants to seek expansion it doesn't seek to stay as it is

You suggest it is an empire like Russia?? hahaha


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