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Poles say a big YES to our European Union


Spike31 2 | 2,110
3 Jan 2021 #541
most of them desire work

So almost half of them found jobs with the substantial push from a government agency and it ONLY took them 5 years. Wunderbar

I'm only concerned that 12% of those doctors and engineers are underemployed. I hope they will soon find a suitable position at Max Planck Institute where they belong.

Well, in that case, I'm happy that it worked so well for Germany after all, and I'm happy that Poland didn't take away that valuable source of the workforce from you.

How simple.

:-)
Novichok - | 2,142
3 Jan 2021 #542
Do you expect me to provide a logical counter-argument for your emotional rant about Polish concentration camps for Muslims?

No, just this:
1. What are the metrics that would trigger the process of removal?
2. Once triggered, would you allow appeals? How many?
3. What do you do with the kids of the refugees born in the host country?

A perfect self-description.

Germany has been the cancer of Europe since the beginning of time. If I were you, I would stay away from subjects like how to efficiently cremate dead people, for example.
Tacitus 2 | 1,237
3 Jan 2021 #543
Wunderbar

Indeed, that is a pretty good result given the challenges. But what interests me more, will you now stop claiming that most of them have no desire to work?

away that valuable source of the workforce from you

No worries, we will share them with you in time ;)
pawian 176 | 14,299
3 Jan 2021 #544
stay away from subjects like how to efficiently cremate dead people,

That`s a highly emotional rant. :):) Calm down, please.

would trigger the process of removal?

What removal?
Novichok - | 2,142
3 Jan 2021 #545
What removal?

Of the refugees who will never leave on their own. Their stay, as the "guests", is always assumed to be temporary under the refugee rules.

Do your guests stay forever?
pawian 176 | 14,299
3 Jan 2021 #546
Their stay, as the "guests", is always assumed to be temporary

Until the situation in their home country improves and the conflict which caused their exile has been regulated. Sometimes it never happens. Check this chart - some refugees have been in exile for decades.

blogs.worldbank.org/dev4peace/2019-update-how-long-do-refugees-stay-exile-find-out-beware-averages

Do your guests stay forever?

No, coz they always have a safe home to return to.
Novichok - | 2,142
3 Jan 2021 #547
Until the situation in their home country improves

"Improves" is bs. That is why I asked for the metrics that can be used to monitor that improvement. Leftist pro "refugee" weasels don't have any metrics and that is why "refugees" are like herpes - forever. No, I don't have herpes. If they ever left, it was their decision, not the host's. If you know of a Western country that deported its refugees because things have improved, name it.

No, coz they always have a safe home to return to.

You don't know that. If your guest is a woman who told you that her husband beats her every day, would you let her stay for years until things improve?

How long would you let her and her kids stay? Don't forget food, medical expenses, school fees, and some pocket change. You do know that some refugees claim their refugee status because of domestic violence, or would you disallow that?

A typical Euro "refugee" is an economic opportunistic migrant man since they all come from safe places like Turkey. When they claim bad conditions, they claim economic deprivation, not bombs. But, to the Western weasels, saying no is an almost physical impossibility. Lately, even that stupid weasel has seen the light.
pawian 176 | 14,299
3 Jan 2021 #548
Western country that deported its refugees because things have improved, name it.

No, we can`t name it because the situation has never improved in those countries. E..g, would you send back to communist Vietnam those refugees who left in 1975 when South Vietnam was occupied by communists?

Simple yes or no is enough.

would you let her stay for years until things improve?

I see you love asking illogical questions all the time. I wouldn`t have to host her for years coz abusive husbands can be dealt with easily through legal procedures and the police. While the situation in certain countries can`t, so stop using such irrational comparisons.

A typical Euro "refugee" is an economic opportunistic migrant man

You are again letting yourself be carried away. I thought we are talking about real refugees. Calm down.
Novichok - | 2,142
3 Jan 2021 #549
Simple yes or no is enough.

I would not let them in in the first place. Moot point. If I did, how many places on Earth would I be expected to help? Name that number.

abusive husbands can be dealt with easily through legal procedures and the police.

Those things take years and only if she is not scared to actually file a criminal complaint. What if she is? How long can she stay with you then?

You are again letting yourself be carried away. I thought we are talking about real refugees.

Only those who flew directly from Syria to WE are "real refugees". Others are econ bums.
pawian 176 | 14,299
3 Jan 2021 #550
I would not let them in in the first place

That`s inhumane. Even worse, it`s bad attitude.

Only those who flew directly from Syria to WE are "real refugees".

We already talked about it and I refuted your definition of a real refugee.

How long can she stay with you then?

As long as she finds her own accomodation. Simple.
Novichok - | 2,142
3 Jan 2021 #551
That`s inhumane. Even worse, it`s bad attitude.

Ah, that selective reading and retention. You are good at it. So let me make it a bit harder and refresh your memory:

If I did, how many places on Earth would I be expected to help? Name that number.

So, are you working on that number? To lessen the effort, I will make it a multiple-choice question: 2, 5, 10, or 20? Pick one closest to your best choice.
Tacitus 2 | 1,237
3 Jan 2021 #552
Rich really likes to ask stupid questions.
pawian 176 | 14,299
3 Jan 2021 #553
So, are you working on that number?

Why are you so obsessed with numbers?? That is infantile of you if you really think providing a number is a problem to me.

2, 5, 10, or 20. Pick one closest to your best choice.

None. We should help refugees from all places where it is impossible for them to live in safety and peace. How simple. Remember - Christian benevolence rules.

Rich really likes to ask stupid questions.

Yes. :):)
He reminds me of a little noisy dog which is jumping around and barking at his much bigger canine companion which stays calm and sedate and doesn`t mind. hahaha



Novichok - | 2,142
3 Jan 2021 #554
Why are you so obsessed with numbers??

Because ALL planning - and that includes spending money - is ALWAYS based on and expressed in numbers. Always. We can them "budgets" - a concept unknown to the touchy-feely weasel leftists.
pawian 176 | 14,299
3 Jan 2021 #555
Because ALL planning - is ALWAYS based on and expressed in numbers.

That`s an old communist obsession. Give it up, it discredits you to depend on communist thinking so much.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
3 Jan 2021 #556
will you now stop claiming that most of them have no desire to work?

Sure. Half of them have found employment after 5 years. That's a pretty strong desire. If I had such a desire to work I would end up as a homeless hobo

You know, making a stupid mistake and then defending it is counterproductive. If German authorities have admitted that they have made a huge political mistake in 2015 instead of trying to defend it I would respect them more.

But on the other hand, that approach worked better from the perspective of the interests of Poland. It was a wake-up call. It served as a warning and has created space for long-lasting socio-political changes in Poland.
Novichok - | 2,142
3 Jan 2021 #557
That`s an old communist obsession.

That's your obsession, too, since you plan your life on the basis of available resources. Just like every liberal in the US. It's only when the money-wise-at-home leftists get hold of the taxpayers' money that they turn into the biggest and the most irresponsible morons ever.
pawian 176 | 14,299
3 Jan 2021 #558
Half of them have found employment after 5 years.

It is twisting. Not after but within - that was the span of statistical measurement. Such statistics aren`t calculated for one year, it would be senseless. So, some found a job after two weeks, others after 4 months. Simple.

Besides, the link mentions a steady job. So, don`t assume that 50% didn`t work at all for 5 years.

Advice: before you comment, can you get acquainted with the links posters provide??

making a stupid mistake and then defending it is counterproductive.

It is too early to claim it. Historians assume we need a generation or two to pass to fairly assess a historical event.

has created space for long-lasting socio-political changes in Poland.

Again, a dubious statement. Long-lasting? A few years isn`t long lasting.

That's your obsession

You can assume it but can`t take it for granted. Why do you think I am the same as you ? - people tend to differ.

Just like every liberal in the US

The problem is that I am not liberal and not in the USA. hahahaha So, your assumption is completely false.
kondzior 12 | 1,200
3 Jan 2021 #559
The West isn't interested in helping refugees. All they care about is their deranged multikult ideals. This is why refugees actually make less than half of the total number of Muslim migrants coming into Europe. And also why Germony was blocking refugees from Ukraine.

This is all about making the Europe "less white" and it has nothing to do with helping Syrians, or anyone in need.
johnny reb 28 | 5,327
3 Jan 2021 #560
This is all about making the Europe "less white"

George Soros and the rest of the Commie Marxists goal.

Half of them have found employment after 5 years.

And when the Polish immigrants came to the U.S.A. from war torn Poland they had little money and didn't know the language.

They ask for no welfare as they had to much pride and had JOBS as soon as possible, wanted to learn the language, made no problems, stuck together in Polish communities to support each other, had manners and respected the laws.

They wanted to merge into American society.
The Muslim economic immigrates have no desire to merge into Western civilization.
Their ideology is to kill all infidels that do not worship Allah.
Now why in the hell would any country invite their enemy to come to their country to multiply like rabbits ?
Why are these Muslim refugees not migrating to other rich Safe Muslim countries where all the people think and worship like they do.
To me it looks like a huge scam to take over the world in the name of Allah.
And by taking a look what is going on in the U.K., France and Germany the Muslims are well on their way on accomplishing their goal.

Poland is the only country in the E.U. that has leaders with brains to see this.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
3 Jan 2021 #561
No worries, we will share them with you in time ;)

I hope that this narrative will be the official signal coming from Germany to Poland on a constant basis. Nothing motivates Poles more than arrogant Germans sending demand letters.

Again, a dubious statement. Long-lasting? A few years isn`t long lasting.

Denial is a sure way to failure. In order to change the reality first, you'll have to face it and understand it. And then to take direct action. There's never too late to learn.
Tacitus 2 | 1,237
3 Jan 2021 #562
That's a pretty strong desire

Yes it is. Those have had a lot of desire, considering the difficulties of finding work despite not knowing the language or having sufficient qualifications, which also means that those who so far failed must not have necessary lacked desire to find work. But it is good to know that you have changed your views on refugees for the better.

that they have made a huge political mistake in 2015

It would have been a mistake if Germany's motivation for accepting refugees in 2015 had been economic in nature, which you apparantly believe, but that was never the case. Germany decided to not close the borders in an effort to prevent the refugee crisis from destabilizing Southern Europe and the Balkans, which would have happened if the refugees already stranded in Italy or the Balkans had been confined there. Merkel has since 2009 tirelessly worked to keep the EU afloat and 2015 was but one of the many measures taken by her. Yeah, taking the refugees was costly - but humanitarian reasons aside - watching Southern Europe collapse under the strain with a possible end to the freedom of movement or an end to the EU would have been much, much worse.
Novichok - | 2,142
3 Jan 2021 #563
Germany decided to not close the borders in an effort to prevent the refugee crisis from destabilizing Southern Europe

If you want to be a standup comedian I have plenty of material for you.
What a load of self-serving crap...Even my cat would know that by this idiotic act that stupid woman of yours told the world to come on over - the door is wide open and there is plenty of stuff behind it.

So, your choice is that she was either that stupid or that she was as conniving as we claim here and now - a moron who for a short term political advantage, with a reckless disregard for the future of the whites race, by trying to appear loving and caring, opened the flood gates for the hordes she immediately wanted to share with others - the victim nations like Poland who never operated extermination camps and feel no guilt to assuage.
GefreiterKania 3 | 53
3 Jan 2021 #564
It would have been a mistake if Germany's motivation for accepting refugees in 2015 had been economic in nature

But that's exactly what Germans have been trying to tell us from the very beginning of the crisis - that their industry is hungry for workforce, and that they need all those proverbial "doctors and engineers". They tried to advertise the madness as bringing in a huge reservoir of workforce. Now you are trying to present this as some sort of humanitarian rescue mission (which is, frankly, ridiculous - considering the fact that most of the "refugees" were young men who often didn't even try to conceal the fact that they are migrating for economic reasons, not fleeing from war). So, it looks like German politicians have been dishonest from the very beginning, lying through their teeth.

Thilo Sarrazin, a German economist, wrote a brilliant book Deutschland Schaff sich ab (and that was 5 years before the refugee madness in question) followed by Der neue Tugendterror and Feindliche Uberbnahme (sorry for no umlauts). And he is not the only one who wrote about importing millions of muslims into European countries; other authors, most notably Udo Ulfkotte (Der Krieg in unsere Stadte), discussed the same problem. These are not some frustrated onanists, writing from their mums' basements, but educated, sensible people - Sarrazin has a doctorate in economy from the University of Bonn and Ulfkotte was an award winning journalist.

Why is it so difficult to admit that you made a mistake (which, after five years, is blatantly obvious)?
Novichok - | 2,142
3 Jan 2021 #565
Why is it so difficult to admit that you made a mistake

That was not a mistake. A mistake is if FedEx delivers a package to the wrong house.
What Germany and that idiot did was a crime of genocide against the whites who, by her criminal intent, became second class citizens in their own country - eventually to be out populated by hostile "guests" who would never leave while happily on the natives' welfare.

young men who often didn't even try to conceal the fact that they are migrating for economic reasons, not fleeing from war

In many cases, those hordes would be 80% men. What kind of refugee would leave his wife and kids in a "war zone" and end up in a nice German hotel for years?

A fake econ bum.
Tacitus 2 | 1,237
3 Jan 2021 #566
But that's exactly what Germans have been trying

Nobody in Germany in a leading position said this as justification as to why Germany did not close the borders in 2015. If anything this was said as to why Germany might be able to integrate the refugees into the work force - which as the link showed turned out to be true. Merkel always justified her decision as necessary for stabilizing Southern Europe and preserving freedom of movement and the EU.

doctors and engineers

Another quote never said by Merkel and others in the context that is often implied. It is a fact that most refugees, particulary from Syria, are above avarage qualified, with a particulary high amount of doctors among them (again relative to their country) but compared to European societies those are rather low. During the Covid crises, quite a few German hospitals were glad to have qualified people from Syria though.

ridiculous - considering the fact that most of the "refugees" were young men

Young men are refugees like any other people too, particulary in Civil Wars like Syria.

Sarrazin

Sarrazin helped pointing out some of the problems with Germany's integration system, particulary the difficulties for refugees from non-European countries to integrate. It his partly thanks to him that many reforms had been made, including language courses from day one and less restrictions on finding work. By the 2nd book however he went off the deep end, and started spouting a lot of racist antisemitic stuff.

Udo Ulfkotte

A right-wing conspiracy nut-job who used to be a reapected journalist, but who eventually only published in the German Kopp Verlag (the one for Hitler apologists and alien believers).

that you made a mistake

A mistake implies that there was a better option available. Merkel had to choose in 2015 between

A) Close the borders, disrupting trade and causing economic harm to Germany and risking the destabilization of Southern Europe and the Balkans, with the EU's future in question

or B) letting the refugees in, knowing that Germany was capable of dealing with the refugees (and as a Bonus, staying true to her Christian conscious as a parish daughter).

B was in every way the better option. Humanitarian issues aside, preserving the EU is Germany's vital interest.
Novichok - | 2,142
3 Jan 2021 #567
Close the borders, disrupting trade and causing economic

Another bulls**t. Every country has two borders: one for people and another one for goods. And they are independent.

knowing that Germany was capable of dealing with the refugees

Another bs. If Germany was capable, why did it try to offload them on others?
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
3 Jan 2021 #568
I know Moscow is a long way inside Russia but have you ever visited a Polish border ?

Goods and people go on the same road.

Not all goods are in trucks - many are in small vans and cars

Not all economic activity is goods.

Still where you come from you are probably thinking only about heavy up industry - pig iron, dirty brown coal and some rusty Samara state of the art cars
Spike31 2 | 2,110
3 Jan 2021 #569
Another bs.

Of course. There's going to be a bs after bs produced on this subject because the whole willkommen "refugees" decision was chaotic and ideologically motivated and impossible to defend on a logical and pragmatic level.

That's what I find so amusing when reading those arguments posing for being reasonable for taking in millions of "refugees". I imagine It must be a particularly painful cognitive bias for Germans who pride themselves to be a logical and pragmatic nation.

Instead of simply admitting right from the start: "Ok, guys we did something stupid acting on an impulse. We've screwed up and will try to solve the bad situation that we created without causing any more damage."

And what has actually happened? Germans with their natural arrogance have insisted that it was a very good decision and everyone should follow their steps. And those who do not want to should be punished. And that failed policy alienated many countries, especially in Central Europe.

I'm not complaining, since it only benefited CEE in the long term. The best way of learning is learning from the costly mistakes of others.
mafketis 24 | 9,385
3 Jan 2021 #570
why Germany did not close the borders in 2015

That was a failure that was literally _years_ in the making as EU and various national leaders ignored what was happening in the Balkans despite being repeatedly warned...

problems with Germany's integration system, particulary the difficulties for refugees from non-European countries to integrate

See... there's your problem. "integration" doesn't work, assimilation of children does work (the policy in the US) it leads to family tensions but ultimately leads to better results than pretending that dysfunctional cultural practices like arranged marriage and obsessing about family "honor" have any place in western europe....


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