Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks

I would, too. The problem is that the only people that are seemingly able to do it properly are non-Poles, yet any foreigner attempting to tackle the subject is immediately accused of bias if the result is against the Poles in any way. I've noticed the same hysteria with the issue of the Poles in Lithuania - Polish people simply don't want to admit that the real situation is anything other than bad Lithuanians being evil to Poles.

At least in my opinion, Gross crossed a line this time. I don't normally support Polish hysteria, but if he genuinely said what was reported, then he really should apologise for it.

There is nothing to dispute, Gross book is a work of fiction. End of.

Gross is attention seeking pseudo scholar, who stirs old prejudices and incites racial hatred. If any of you are truly interested in the topic take any of his book and check his sources.


Like who?
Davies has an enormous following in Poland, you would expect he writes about Poland only in superlatives, but reading his work would prove you otherwise.

I don't agree with many of his thesis but I can respect him because he tries to be impartial and is interested in hstory and not proving his point.

People will shout about Jewish crimes because they feel threatened and unheard. There were real polemics with Gross but they were deemed antisemitc without any explanation.

Has anyone seen interview with Gross in TVP2 few years back? His response to any criticism was I quote "people wh don't agree with my books are antisemitic".

How can anyone take him seriously?

Davies is sometimes very poor though - I noticed that in his book about Wrocław, he somewhat ignored most of the post-1945 history and concentrated on anecdotes from small villages instead. When you consider how well researched the early stuff was, it seems that he was too afraid to write about the modern era.


The man is a professor of history - not exactly the domain of pseudo scholars.


Or because they are heard? People in Poland do tend to believe a certain mythology about Jewish people.


Such is the level of debate in Poland. There's no rational centrist position here.


Seems like a good marketing act to me.

what are you suggesting?


Professor of sociology.


I don't know, these people are rarely quoted in mainstreem media and not as an authority.
I talked about balance before, so imagine a Polish author publishing a selective book about Jewish crimes against Poles, would he get the same attention and standing as Gross? And I am talking about well research and truthful book here, but still one sided.

Do you understand where the histeria is coming from?


True, and I don't see it changing anytime soon. There is pliticall corectness to overcome and the journalists would have to stop assuming that all their viewers are idiots who don't think, only feel.

It isn't much better in other developed countries, to tell the truth. UK can sometimes surprise me.


I don't understand.

I'm suggesting that Davies knew fine well that if he wrote anything bad about Poles in the last century, then he would have real problems here.


Wrong. Don't try and push that tired myth. He's a professor of history, as listed on his faculty page. The fact that his PhD is in sociology doesn't change a thing about what his title is. If you want an honest debate, you need to respect the facts.


There's usually a reason for that.


If it was genuinely researched and truthful, I suspect it would. The Americans might have some weird love-affair with Israel, but others don't. I find it interesting that no-one has actually attempted to do such a thing.


It works both ways. What's curious about political correctness is that it also applies to the right wing.


Think about it - you want publicity for your book, right? So why not say something completely ridiculous - which will cause the right wing media to explode. It did, and Gross got 2-3 years of free publicity from it. The resulting hysteria was also widely reported in the United States, so it helped him with book sales there, too. Very clever, I'd say.

Last century?or post war?


I don't know his biography, according to english wiki he is sociology professor, and yes, I know crappy source.
Did he earn his Ph. D in history or is he just teaching history?
Anyway, doesn't change the fact that his books are dishonest and poor scholarly work.


I doubt that, nobody really wants to touch it, the author would undoubtly be accused of antisemitism and it can often ruin you, there are safer topics.

In next year there is to be published work about slave trade in Central and Eastern Europe, it suggest that the merchants were mainly Jews. Curious about the accusations?

J.R. Nowak published book that was supposed to be an answer to Gross' work and guess were is he now? and yes that book was biased, but so was Gross and one is a famous scholar while the other is forgotten.


This is what I don't understand. He is supposed to be a scholar! and you just said that it is about publicity, if he is about publicity then obviously he will write and say the most outrageous stuff to schock people, but if it is so then why are people trying to deefend his thesis.

And he said that during TV interview, public opinion was already interested, he is just that ridiculous. He lives in USA, where thes few words will shut anyone up.

Very articulate of you, but nonsense. If nothing else, his books are very well researched and though data had been challenged before by extreme nationalists, those challenges have failed.


He is Professor of War and Society and Professor of History at Princeton University.

Oh my I just argued with a liberal Polish family member on Facebook over his article.

A quick Wikipedia search revealed all I needed to know. I am certain she was not aware of his heritage when she posted his anti-Eastern Europe article

Wikipedia (and Youtube)!!!!!!! I assume you don't know how they function, do you? Anyone including your neighbor's dog can write and post any BS. To take Wikipedia (and youtube) as THE truth shows a lack of intelligence. Wikipédia (and youtube) has absolutely NO ... scientific proof ;). "MDR" ;)

Inflating 300-350 vicitms to 1600 is hardly a minor point. Even after it was corrected, the original book remains in circulation and time and again some journalist, TV discussion or speech maker will continue to speak of 1600 burnt alive in a barn.


That will continue until people of your ilk occasionally start raising the theme of Jewish perfidy rather than totally ignoring the subject or sweeping it under the carpet.

Jews are human, you know, and subejct to all human failings. They have been both victims and vicitmisers.

At least those victims actually existed and were actually there, which is more than can be said for the things that some writers write about. I'm sure we can all think of several recent examples of a writer writing about things which were most certainly not in the place he claimed and never even existed.


It has been finally established how many Jews were murdered by Poles at Jedwabne? Since when? By whom?

"You do realise he's a Polish historian who specialises in mid 20th Century Poland. How broad do you want his horizons to be?"

Still Burundi nonsense ? He's not "a Polish historian". This messed up grandpa is a Jewish-American, a US citizen and resident (since like 50 years) and a Jewish chauvinist. Therefore claims that perhaps he might mention what US/Israel (very little/nothing) are doing regarding "refugees", while he doesn't mind to throw shyt at Poland that bears far less obligation to help these people than those 2 countries, are perfectly valid. Just like in case of my drunk English drivers analogy or If you find it more amusing, in case of a Catholic priest screaming about pedophilia among operatives of Judaism.

Grosz is just making money on Polonophobia just like David Duke is making money on anti-semitism and it's time to finally regard him as what he really is, old xenophobic nutjob.

"It has been finally established how many Jews were murdered by Poles at Jedwabne?"

Unfortunately prominent members of your beloved nation blocked any real investigation over there. I wonder why...

Settle down. It doesn't require scientific proof to know his agenda based on book titles like "Fear: Anti-Semitism in Poland After Auschwitz" and "Neighbors: The Destruction of the Jewish Community in Jedwabne, Poland."

You do recognize the difference between Wikipedia & YouTUBE? Tube only censors clips that are viewed as breaking policy I.E. nudity, cursing or violence. Wikipedia has people to monitor articles with heavy traffic I.E. check out the *Talk* section. Wikipedia usually requires people to post evidence with their article edits. You think for example a British Encyclopedia is not bias? Or American or Russian? This is why for example the same article in English contains different content than the same article in Polish on Wikipedia

He's more Polish than Chopin and is a professor of history at Princeton University.


If you want people to regard him as that, feel free to prove it. At things stand, he's a professor of history at one of the best universities in the world and the highly-regarded author of best-selling history books and you're none of those things.

He made his "career" due to Holocaust related stories being a hot issue in America. That's all.

If you think that Grosz must be right because he is successful (in some way...) then you must also think that Patrick "We have known for some time that the Auschwitz myth is of an exclusively Jewish origin" Buchanan must be right by default too (after all is much more successful than this mad grandpa will ever be) you Holocaust denier :)))))))))

The exhumation turned up only 300-some bodies. Of course, you'll employ a typcial harryesque ruse: Wikipedia ain't reliable.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jedwabne_pogrom

Yes he is. He's Polish from Poland.


Exactly.

Listen to extreme nationalists squeal like piggies when their version of a narrative is challenged by facts. And Professor of History at Princeton has far more credibility than an anonymous internet sock-puppet.

Gross is not historian. Read about that. He has not properly education in thiss matter.

"Yes he is. He's Polish from Poland."

He's American from America. (leaving all the other aspects aside...)

"And Professor of History at Princeton has far more credibility than an anonymous internet sock-puppet."

This "professor" has just "estimated" the number of Jews allegedly killed by Poles, taking the number of Jews that allegedly managed to be not "ghettoized" when the Holocaust was kicked off and subtracting the number of Jews that stayed in PRL after WW2. If you still don't get it... according to this grandpa, for instance Jews liberated in Buchenwald were... killed by Poles, or Menachem Begin -> killed by Poles, undoubtedly. Not to mention Jews killed by "Nazis" in thousands of places outside the ghettos/camps. Killed by Poles.

For horseshyt like this, dude would be chased out even from some local public school in Texas... If it wasn't "anti-semitic" of course...

No. He's from Poland and is Polish. Read his biography, Grzegorz.


I think we can credit him with more rigour than that - whether his findings fit your prejudices or whether they don't.

"No. He's from Poland and is Polish."

So now aren't all these Indians or Pakistanis in UK - British anymore ?

"I think we can credit him with more rigour than that"

I have just showed his "methodology", that's not my impression but that's how he says he "estimated" the number of Jews killed by Poles.

Who knows? If someone is from Pakistan then they're from Pakistan. If their roots are Pakistani, then they're Pakistani. They can be British too, if they so identify.

In that exact same way Professor Gross, born in Poland and with Polish roots is Polish from Poland. However much you squeal.

From Poland but not ethnically Polish either in blood or spirit. He knows what side his bread is buttered on. That's why he forsook impartial scholarship for cheap toadying propaganda. It wouldn't surprise anyone if he legally changed his surname to Gro$$.

Actually Po3, he is.


You mean you disagree with him.

No matter how hard you try to spin it, he's technically more American than Polish therefore one might think that should say something about the richest country in the world not giving a damn about refugees and not just throw shyt on (allegedly "his") country/nation. Dude is a nutjob. Soon even GW folks will likely tell you that as he went too far to even try to support him.

No, he's become a profesional Polonophobe for $$$$$! A most profitable pursuit.
What a sucker you are doing it for free!


Indeed, this is just a mirage and illusion. That is not a K9 but a little yorkie in disguise, and those people seen here are actually passers-by bundled up against the extreme cold.

LOL!

google.pl/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=t%C4%99cza+pl.+Zbawiciela+psy+policyjne

Gross merely has to prove his case, that's all. As with the equally contested lunar mission of '69, Neil Armstrong until his dying day ALWAYS maintained his crew's and his participation in the moon landing, i.e. that is was NOT some hoax cooked up by Nasa in order to beat the Russians.

As with the photographs now housed in some Japanese probe either showing or not showing the lunar module left on the surface of the moon all those decades ago, all Gross needs is the hard forensic evidence to support his ugly claims.

After that, he's basically home free and it turns out that Jedwabne was not a fig newton of some Pole-bashing Jew's fervid imagination!!

:-)

You claim that; however, Princeton university say he is a professor of history. Who shall we believe?


He is a Pole born in Poland to two Polish parents. He is more Polish than Chopin.


Actually he is both Polish in spirit and in blood, but I suppose we can't expect an American who thinks that Polish citizenship is just a scrap of paper to understand what it means to be Polish.


Was he born in Poland or in the USA? Where his parents born in Poland or in the USA? Isn't the reality that he is Polish by both the jus soli principle (which Poland doesn't recognise) and the jus sanguinis principle (which Poland does use)?

And isn't he required under Polish law to only use Polish documents when identifying himself to Polish authorities, thus showing that to Poland he is only Polish?

And so Jedwabne and Kielce are grounds for questioning Gross' Polishness or patriotism???