Pole-basher Gross up to old tricks

Well, in that case you definitely have problem if you do something else for living that digging ditches or even digging spouts,

hint - (whispering) its fiction and when people take all that for historical facts, some people do not take kindly to that kind of mental deficiency, I know we should go easy on them special people they just cannot help the way they are.

Funny you should mention digging ditches for a living. Here's a famous photograph of people who had been digging ditches:



I believe that that original caption to the photograph was Gorączka złota w Treblince (Gold rush in Treblinka). This photograph attracted remarkably little controversy in Poland, right up until Gross wrote about it.

well, it is about intelectual honesty and balance. You cannot talk about "atrocities" of one side and ignore the other. Funny how he talked about polish racism in connection to Poland's refusal of accepting immigrants and didnot mention similar stance of USA and absolute refusal on Israel's side.


your point is?
Correct me if I am wrong but was it in any way proven that these people are grave robbers? Maybe we know for sure about their ethnicity?

Now, assuming that these people are polish grave robbers, what does that tell you?
are you thinking about antisemitism?

Why would he? The book is about neither of those places. Why for that matter didn't he mention Korea or Burundi or Peru?


Yes. Would you like some links?


Yes. We do.

Are you similarly disputing the veracity of Prof. Gross's book?

Could you go into detail about Israel's refusal to accept refugees in 1938? That was the same year that Poland was refusing to accept thousands of refugees who had Polish citizenship but were of a certain faith.


Part of the Warsaw Yanomami community were they?


No, they were just digging holes in the sun for a laugh, digging through rotting human remains because they had nothing better to do. And all the signs of wealth in Treblinka after the war were a complete coincidence.

Umm, I was talking about his latest interview...


Yes.


Are you similarly disputing the veracity of Prof. Gross's book?[/quote]
Verocity? how can statement about "antisemitic look" be taken seriously.


How about we don;t jump from one topic to another just to stick it to someone and have an actual discussion?
And you didn't really answer any of my question.
I will repeat the most important one: is robbing graves a sign of antisemitism to you?

No matter how loud you bark or bring up some events from the Middle Ages, it doesn't change the fact that Gross Jewish guy throw shyt at Poland for not being too happy about taking Syrian "refugees" while at the same time he says nothing about minimal effort the USA is doing in this matter or no effort at all that Israel (the only developed country in modern history that has been occupying other people's land) is doing although they are much closer to the whole mess and are technically much better prepared to host these people than we are.

People like Gross (or you) love to search for "dark chapters in history" but only If they are not in their own book.

Not necessarily, but people who are so lacking in humanity that they rob graves are likely to be more pre-disposed to all forms of racism than those who don't, aren't they?

Why should he have mentioned that then, either? The interview was about Poland. Not anywhere else.


Like the 747 that crashed in Jedwabne and Polish authorities recovered the bodies of 1900 passengers.

Because he is a US citizen/resident and a Jew, therefore his country America or "the Jewish state" (as they call themselves) are more relevant in this case than Burundi or Peru ? He's like a Polish guy complaining on English drunk drivers killing people on the roads not saying a word that it's actually worse in Poland. Would you then say "Ah he didn't mention Poland but he didn't mention Burundi either" :)))))?

if "not necessarily" than it shouldn't be used as one by a scholar. Things like this discredit him in my eyes.
And I am still not sure about it, why are there so many women there?why do they pose for a picture? It doesn't really add up to be a people initiative.

I never disputed decline of morale during and after the war. This is what war does to people.
But robbing graves is not necessarily that, it is mostly a sign of desperation.
During polish uprising local popuation would sometimes do that to polish or russian corpses, nothing racist about it, but hunger, desperation and opportunism.

So why would he mention America in an interview about Poland?

You mean Poles are particularly pre-disposed to all forms of racism ? Interesting. Is it a matter of genetics ?

What about people that have been occupying land of their neighbours since decades and claim their country to be designed for one particular ethnicity ? Are they more pre-disposed to all forms of racism or less than people from a country where allegedly some group of individuals robbed some graves decades ago ? I wonder.


For the same reason a Polish guy should mention the situation in Poland before complaining on English drunk drivers killing people on the roads. And If he didn't, your crowd would throw tonnes of shyt at him :)))))

As I mentioned before it is about honesty and credibility.
IHe is an American Jew, who disegards actions of both of his homelands and moralizes about another country. It just doesn't sit right with me, if he is such a humanitarian shouldn't he start with his own backyard?


why would he always talk ONLY about Poland?

How do you know he didn't say all those things in the interview? They do edit them so they can squeeze the adverts in...

Though why would he mention a country other than Poland in an interview about Poland. Not every nationality is hung up on comparing themselves with others...


In an interview about Poland, why would he talk about anything else. I'm sure he has other topics of conversation when not being interviewed...

Ehh, you are grasping at straws, the interview was authorized and I read many of his interviews he has a one-track mind.
I have already answered why.


I doubt that.

Will you be able to find the links today? I am curious about them, because I did some research just after the book came out and couldn't find any proofs.

Hardly, though that is exactly what you have been doing, suggesting one daft excuse after another.

You seem to think that he should only talk about Poland in comparison with other places. There's no reason for that at all. None. If he's talking about crimes in one country, why should he feel the need to list crimes in another?

It's the usual right-wing cry-baby reaction. They try and diminish Polish crimes by pointing out that others committed crimes too, so they can reduce/minimise the discussions about Polish crimes.

In Russia they do the same thing. It's become a cliche really. And nobody is taken in by it.

Whenever a book is published that a particular tendency in Poland dislikes, the screaming is loud, but doesn't really carry very far.

Because neither you nor delph nor harry nor any other Brit Bully ever do. When was the last time you wrote about Berman & Co.?

About as much as Jewish complains on Davide Duke the usual right-wing cry-baby reactions.

Oh yes, it's a very Russian thing to me. Even the terminology is utter denial - "Great Patriotic War", anyone?

I've always been rather amused by the way that those right-wing Poles more or less copy Russian ideas and mentalities. Fits in with their Eastern origins, I suppose.

No, I think that things do not happen in the vacuum. When talking about pol-jew realtions he believes that it does, so he picks his facts just so they fit his argument. And he can't even do that right- I have read his books I have checked his facts and his sources and I say that he is a houx. People like him stoke hate and prejudices.


No really, I wouldn't mention it if it was a one time thing.
I am questioning his motives. If he was truly interested in racism and humanitarianism than he should have broader horizonts and first concern himself with his homelands current wrongdoings.

Oh yes, let's go off-topic when Burundi type of arguments has been proven to be total non-sense.

I would agree, provided the Poles do the same. When will fronda.pl start writing about the wrongdoings committed by Polish people?

You do realise he's a Polish historian who specialises in mid 20th Century Poland. How broad do you want his horizons to be? Should he include


?

Don't assume anything about me since you don't know me. As I said before it is about intellectual honesty and perspective.
Gross is a crappy scholar and an hour with internet access will prove you that- take any of his books and check the sources he is citing, it is laughable.

If we don't have honest discussion we will never get anywhere.


Yet, he talks about current situation...
when he talks about history of two group that lived next to each other he points out crimes of one group.

The problem is that it works both ways. The opposition to Gross (at least, until now - I suspect that this incident with Die Welt will **** off a lot of people) has consisted of people that constantly brought up things like "BUT THE JEWS COLLABORATED WITH THE NKVD!" as a counterpoint. I read one interview with someone opposed to him a while ago, and half the interview consisted of an attempt to portray the Jewish minority as being equally evil. It was ridiculous.

I'm all for honesty, but it has to be genuine honesty and not based on an attempt to score cheap political points.

I wouldn't expect much from Fronda, there will always be far right and far left. But I agree and I would like nothing more if these topics were taken seriously and without any bias.

In current situation i will not add to the people focusing on polish crimes because there is no balance and yes that makes people defensive and is not a good atmosphere for untangling and hundreds of years of polish - jewish relations.

I don't think that will happen easily. Remember that Prof. Gross writes these book (his others are very different) in order to provoke discussion.