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15 years of Poland in the EU - assessment of pros and cons


Spike31 3 | 1,813
18 Oct 2019 #211
If the rumors are true, then the amount of money allocated for Poland will be reduced significantly

Germany is in a very peculiar position now. Sure they would like to cut the fundings and "teach those bloody Poles" [how to become a proper neomarxist state]. But there're few things that need to be taken into account:

- Any direct attack or/and sanctions on Poland, and it's government, would be counter productive since Poles don't like the others, Germans especially, to influence our internal politics.

- Poland, due to a fast growing economy, would not be a "net beneficiary" or those said funds in the next decade so the pressure could be no longer maintaned in the future

- Poland, and V4, are the main tradining partner of Germany in Europe. The main source of component for German main [automotive] industry. Hitting Poland and Hungary would directly hit German economy as well
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
18 Oct 2019 #212
.....since Poles don't like the others, Germans especially, to influence our internal politics.

I wonder why the EU is so popular in Poland then though....



pewresearch.org/global/2019/10/14/the-european-union/

A country shouldn't join a union if it prefers to be alone...and it looks like a majority of Poles has no problems with influencing and being influenced. The percentage ist even higher than in Germany.

You could rather say.....Germans don't like others, especially Poland, to influence our internal politics! :)
mafketis 24 | 8,712
18 Oct 2019 #213
the EU is so popular in Poland then though....

Yes/no polls tend to lose the nuances. As I've written before, a large majority of Polish people are in favor of membership but for mostly instrumental reasons

-ability to work abroad for better money

-economic development aid (not called that, but... that's what it is)

-some check on local government excesses (note the high number of post-communist countries toward the top)

There is, however, no... sentimental feeling (of the type that many Germans seem to have toward the EU) and there's no desire to subvert Polish identity to a larger European identity (I remember being told by someone who had lived in Germany that none of the younger people he knew wanted to be German - they wanted to be 'Europeans' first and foremost).

The real lead here however is France - more negative toward the EU than Greece! More negative toward the EU than the UK (which voted to leave....)

What's up there? The Center is not holding....
Dougpol1 32 | 3,274
18 Oct 2019 #214
....lived in Germany that none of the younger people he knew wanted to be German - they wanted to be 'Europeans' first and foremost).

Now that is so true. I was shocked at the time when I lived there to hear that. I thought my German contemporaries had it all - a blonde girlfriend, a car, a flat, a solid trainee position at the local steelworks...... but they were generally unfulfilled, and claimed they were Europeans first, German second.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
18 Oct 2019 #215
....they wanted to be 'Europeans' first and foremost).

Well...I always thought that to be crap! There is no european football team to cheer for.. :)

And this is a survey from this year...a majority of 62% identifies as Germans first and foremost and only 19% see themselves as Europeans first.

de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/235690/umfrage/umfrage-zum-identitaetsgefuehl-der-deutschen/

17% feel both and a whopping 2% has no idea (?)
Dougpol1 32 | 3,274
18 Oct 2019 #216
.I always thought that to be crap

Maybe German society has changed since I was there in the early 80s? Anyway, that was the Ruhr - where peeps were considerably richer than most other regions...
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
18 Oct 2019 #217
Yeah...could be....big cities in the West, that's where you will find most of these "Europeans first" guys and gals...
mafketis 24 | 8,712
18 Oct 2019 #218
I was there in the early 80s?

The friend who told me that had lived in Berlin in the mid to late 1990s... he also said he didn't know a single person over age 20 so with married co-habitating parents (all kids of single moms or parents separated and/or divorced) He said (at that time) Berlin was a city of individuals, not families.

Capital cities are always a bit out of step with the rest of the country...
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
18 Oct 2019 #219
I believe thats it because they don't grow naturally...the no-families symptom is part of that. Young people, singles, ambitious, from all over the country pack their bags and hope for chances and adventures in the big cities of the West.

They are more often than not leftists...and they gather there...that's why polls in big cities skew every survey. Ask the people in the small towns, on the lands and you will get totally different answers and percentages.

But these young radicals get older too...and then their values often change...they start families...and suddenly leftist views and big cities lose their allure. Now they become more conservative and move out...it's a circle.
Spike31 3 | 1,813
19 Oct 2019 #220
I wonder why the EU is so popular in Poland then though....

And yet it was PiS, a party which is attacked by the EU beaurocrats and rulers, who won a recent elections in Poland and not a PO which is widely perceived as a pro-EU party in Poland.

Not to mention that far right-wing Konfederacja, which I do support, has entered the Polish parliament for the very first time.

So hide your opinion polls, BratwurstBoy, because a general elections are the best opinion polls there are :-)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,573
21 Oct 2019 #221
Maybe German society has changed since I was there in the early 80s?

Kebab, cuckery, spinster post menopausal ministers, ninjas, and turd worlders raping and pillaging at will have most definetely changed German society. Hell its changed even since I was a teenager. Dortmund isn't recognizable today from 10-15 years ago.
cms neuf - | 1,742
21 Oct 2019 #222
I recognize it - a n ugly square between a brewery and the station, a few malls and a giant stadium - it has not been an attractive town since 1944
Crow 139 | 8,280
21 Oct 2019 #224
Poland would soon face simple choice. EU or Visegrad. Because it won`t work together. And yes, choice would be simple.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
21 Oct 2019 #225
You don't hear alot about Visegrad anymore....and there is always the big elephant in the room, Russia...with the other Visegrad countries alot warmer on Putin than Warsaw.
Crow 139 | 8,280
21 Oct 2019 #226
Good. While you focusing on Russia, Serbia will finish the job.

Central Europe isn`t Russian domain. To my people, Central Europe is home. Russia have its own wider interests. But there are specific interests of Central Europeans. Sure, we will accept Russian, Chinese, Japan, Indian, Brazilian and any support to our cause. Powers have interest that we win. So, we speak of specific interests of Central Europe. Pilusdski spoke of it.

Things with European politics already rotate around this gravitic pool.
OP pawian 173 | 12,599
13 Jul 2020 #227
Just wait though till Polish people are asked to pay for states like Albania

But it is not only about paying into the EU budget. It is also travel, investment, cultural programs etc etc. Do you think Poles will give all this up? To stand in non-EU citizen queues at the airports? I don`t think so.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,573
13 Jul 2020 #228
Probably not, but they're going to probably renegotiate their position to pay as little as possible and maximize their benefits especially if the EU program becomes less popular due to Poland paying in billions for **** hole countries like Albania to join and other things.
OP pawian 173 | 12,599
13 Jul 2020 #229
they're going to probably renegotiate their position to pay as little as possible and maximize their benefits

That`s what Poles have been doing since 2004. :)

Will it work in the future, too? Who knows. The EU might have a dilemma with it - it all depends on Poland abiding to European laws concerning independent judiciary, tolerance, etc etc.
mafketis 24 | 8,712
13 Jul 2020 #230
probably renegotiate their position to pay as little as possible and maximize their benefits

How are they going to do that with no allies except Hungary? What bargaining power does the current Polish government have?
OP pawian 173 | 12,599
13 Jul 2020 #231
yes, I wanted to mention it later on: The EU issued warnings that Polish counties which declared themselves as LGBT free zones, won`t receive any fundings from the EU budget. Mayors and other leaders in those regions are already worried coz it will diminish their income substantially.
Spike31 3 | 1,813
13 Jul 2020 #232
Pros of the EU membership:

> access to the single market

Cons of the EU membership

> regulations, regulations, regulations...and a lot of social engineering achieved by a structural funds

> the fact that Brussels, and Berlin, dictates to Poland who we should or shouldn't invite to our country ("refugee" crisis), or how should we rule our own country (judicial reforms)

> massive multi-kulti, LGBT and a generaly anti-civilization neo-marxist movements within the EU political elites which aim to destroy traditional European culture based on Christian values and an ancient Greek philosophy

Unrelated to the EU membership

> unrestricted movement withing the "EU borders". Schengen Zone is actually a separate agreement and it is possible to belong to Schengen and not to the EU (Norway, Switzerland) or to belong to the EU but not to Schengen (UK, Ireland)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,573
13 Jul 2020 #233
What bargaining power does the current Polish government have?

$600 billion a year in bargaining power - that's how. Poland has plenty of ways to undermine the EU and let them know that they're not going to control Poland's laws and society. Nasz kraj, nasze zasady.

The EU issued warnings that Polish counties which declared themselves as LGBT free zones, won`t receive any fundings from the EU budget.

Suuuuure. It won't be the first or last time the EU issues threats that they can't back up. All bark, no bite - just like with their article 7 debacle ROFL!
cms neuf - | 1,742
13 Jul 2020 #234
Your Kraj is Illinois dude, and your Zasady are in the hands of the local Democratic Party.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,933
13 Jul 2020 #235
Your Kraj is your Zasady

English language on this thread only please.

Or at least give a translation.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,573
13 Jul 2020 #236
Your Kraj is Illinois dude

My English and Polish passports says otherwise. Precisely why I was able to vote for The Duda and help him secure a victory over fagowski.
OP pawian 173 | 12,599
13 Jul 2020 #237
regulations, regulations, regulations.

Do you suppose such an entity as the EU could do without them? That`s a very naive presumption. Anarchy and chaos aren`t the best way to rule 500 million people market.

that Brussels, and Berlin, dictates to Poland who we should or shouldn't invite to our country

They pay, so they demand. Obvious.

which aim to destroy traditional European culture based on Christian values

Excuse me, but when I look at, hear and read rightards who profess "Christian values" and want to defend them,(e.g., PiS in Poland or some guys here, dolno or johhny), I don`t know if I should cry or laugh. Theirs and their like`s Christian values are as valid and true as last year`s snow. I will become a Turkish sultan first before they become Christians with values. . hahaha buuuhooo

Schengen Zone is actually a separate agreement and it is possible to belong to Schengen and not to the EU

Do you think Poland will be allowed to stay in Schengen after possible Polexit? I highly doubt it. The West will desire to show the rest of countries that individual rebellions must be punished.

Suuuuure. It won't be the first or last time the EU issues threats that they can't back up.

I am not sure about the validity of such threats, so let`s wait and see what happens.
cms neuf - | 1,742
13 Jul 2020 #238
Since when has England issued passports ?
dolnoslask 5 | 2,933
13 Jul 2020 #239
Anyone can get one , I mean anyone, even you could get one no problem.
mafketis 24 | 8,712
13 Jul 2020 #240
English language on this thread only please.

No true Pole ever supports the suppression of the Polish language....


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